PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2821, 12 July 1916, Page 9

PARLIAMENT

THE FINANCE, BILL SECOND READING DEBATE GENERAL CRITICISM ■ The Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. yteatprday. In the unavoidable absence of tlia Speaker, the Hon. T. Thompson was voted to tie ohair. ' The Land and Income Tax Bill was reported from the Statutes Revision Comjmittee without alteration, and the committal stafe set down for next day. The Petitions Committee, reporting on ».petition from surveyors for the establishment' of a Board of Appeal for Surveyors, stated that it had no recommendation, to make. MILITARY SERVICE BILL. \ A Message was received from the House "of Kepresantatives requesting a coiiferenoe upon the amendments in the Military Servico Bill. Tlie Hoins. O. Samuel, iW. Morgan, and Sir Francis Ball were •appointed nmnagere for the Council, the oonfarence to be held as soon as tho Minister of Defence is able to attend. Various local Bills were received from the House of' Representatives and referred -to committees. MOTION OF CONDOLENCE. .SIE IK ANCIS BELL said that all the 'members of tho Council' desired to pay a mark of:respect to tlie Speaker and his family in their present sorrow. "Tho war/ said Sir lYancis, "has levied a heavy toll on the family of our Speaker. The wife of his eldest son, BrigadierGeneral Johnston, 'who- loft in command of the infantry of the first. Expeditionary force, died in Egypt, whither she had gone to be near'her husband. His eon-in-law, Major Levin,, received his death "wound whilo oom'manding the rearcuaid of the evacuation of Gaiiipoli, and his widow, overwhelmed with"'grief, followed him in death not more than throe weeks ago. On Saturday last came the sews of the death in battle of the youngest of the four gallant sons who left New Zealand to fight for their country. It is hard to have the young go first, and every father here must feel for the father and mother who in. their desolate home are mourning the-loss of their youngest boy. Tho only consolation- can' be that ■he fell and laid down his life in the service of his country. He was a .lad of fine character, who had 'laid down for himself the lines of a career of useful occupation, but on his country's call ■ he sought service in. an Imperial "regiment, and showed such a capacity as a soldier and a leader that lie had obtained'the rank •of. a captain in an Imperial regiment before his end. His name to tho world is only one of the couuteless names of brave men who in the-last two -years have fought and fallen in the service of their Wintry, but-to his family and'to his frieinds his memory is enduring, for we remember.his bright, happy; cheerful way of life, his thoughtfulness for others, and perhaps most of; all his calni, modest, end manly spirit of independence;" Sir Prancis then moved the following motion: —"That this Council assures the Speaker and his family of. the sincere condolence and sympathy of-all the members of- the Council with them in their grief for the loss of their youngest son,- Captain 0; It. P. Johnston, Middlesex Eegiment, who fell in action gallantly fighting for- hia country." -; • .The Hon. J.. D: Ormond~~seconded the motion, which was carried in- silence. * The.. Council rose at 2.40.

THE HOUSE

PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS COMPLAINTS OF SICKNESS ' • The House of .Representatives met at 2.30 p.m.' ! .. .. . .. ' A..diseussioil took-, place . regarding the: delay-in: iiie progress of-the new Parliament Buildings, and matters connected with other public buildings in the Dominion.. . . Mr. H. G. ELL colled attention to the fact that a'large amount of space on the top floor of the new Government Buildings in Christchurch was mot occupied,; despite the fact that a considerable amount had been expended on furniture, and in making alterations to .the buildings. Yet whilst this . accommodation was tacant a considerable sum was spent in rent for buildings occupied .by Government Departments: \ The Hon. D. BUDDO said that better accommodation for the Lands and Survey Department in Christchurch was required. Mr. C. H. POOLE said that in Wellington' the Public Departments were scattered all over the town, and tlio amount paid in rent for rented offices was about .£IO,OOO a, year. " . . ■ • Mr. J. CRAIGIE made a plea for increased post office accommodation at Timaru. ! ' ' /Sickness Amongst Members. Mr.G. J. ANDERSON referred to the delay in the constrnciion of the now Parliament Buildings. He said' : that. there was. a great deal of sickness every year amongst raembors owing to the unsatisfactory character of the present buildings. He said that, if . the new building had been a private one it would have been finished long ago;. The Minister of Finance had been ill, and the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence were also ill. A member: What about the poor members?. Mr. Anderson: Yes. What about the poor members? We are all suffering. He asked whether the Chamber only of the new building. coiild not be got ready , for next session. Mrr A. K. NEWMAN said that there was no other building of the same size in the Dominion as the present Parliament Buildings that, was so insanitary. He agreed with Mr. Anderson as to . the necessity for getting into more sanitary quarters. -The way in which the new building had been dawdled over and dawdled over was not creditable to the . It would be a terrible calamity if tho House were to lose the lives of two of ita_ members. (Laughter.) He said'the position was a serious one. Year •lL r ?f ar they wer e obliged to nut up v-i i Present insanitary Chamber, whilst marble facing 3 wei'e put on the \ CW ir 1 . 11^ . lle "rged that a flat roof PhouJd bo put,on tho Chamber in tho ,new building, and that it should be cot ready as soon as possible. It was a lot of twaddle that was talked about it b». ing necessary for the whole building to go up together. ™

Br.TILtCKER spoke to'similar cfl'eel , and also •complaiiW about the insanitary condition of the Christchurch. Post Office. How the officials, he said, could continue-to work in the latter buildin* passed all comprehonsion. " Twenty Yedrs Y»t. ' Mr. G. FORBES said that unless more energy was put into the construction ot the present Parliament Building it would be another twenty years before thsy got into it. They had often heard a great deal about the' Government stroke, "but surely there could be no greater example than this. The Hon.' W. Praser: It is not Government work. It is contract work. Members: It is not. the contractor's fault. ■ Mr.. Forbes: No; we have often been told jn the past what a splendid system the contract system if?. Mr, C. K STATHAiI deprecated the attack which was being made on the Minister of Public Works. Members: No! No! There is no attack on the Minister. Mr. Statliam said that ho agreed wil.in other members as to the slow progress that was being made with the new Parliament Buildings. It seemed to him that the present members would never have the privilege of sitting in the new chamber. They were likely to l>e in another place ,i before tho building finished. He also drew attention to the need for puhing on with the completion of the new Dunedin Post Office; He also spoke of the wide distribution nf the Government offices in.Dunedin, and urged. that this policy should be discontinued. .Ml Government offices should be together. • '

Mr. L. M. MITT spoke of thoChristchaich Post Office, ana Biid that if any

private Ann worked its employees in suck a building it would be prosecuted by the Government inspectors. Ag for the new Parliament Buildings, tbe way itt which tile work was goint; on was a laughing stock amougst tbe architects and builders of Wellington. Mr. J. PAYNE also spoke on similar lines.

' Mr. wrmr emphasised the point that it was nine years since the old building was burnt down, and throe years since the new one was begun. Tho present position was a disgrace. Mr. It. lIEATON RHODES (Ellesmere) asked tho Mi nister of Public Works to give a s;narantoo that-in Hie new chamber the ventilation would bo of an improved type. Mr. Newman said 'that lie, thought the Parliament Buildings wer* going up quickly enough. It would be tetter to pay greater attention to the backblocks roads than to spend moro money on th<i Parliament Buildings. The Hon. A. T. NGATA said ho thought where; (laughter.) that the public were quilt; satisfied with the present Parliament Buildings. The' public thought that tho work oi Parliament was "rotten" at tho best of times, and that such work could bo. done any - where. Speech by Public Works Minister. The Hon. W. I'HASER (Minister of Public Works) said that the contract for +ho Parliament Buildings specified for a facing of Sandy Bay marble, but the tlrst quarry opened up was found to be unsatisfactory. - He then went out of his way to assist the contractors in oponing up a new quarry, tho stone from which, was oi satisfactory quality. This was how oomiug to hand. The blocks could now be obtained to the Tequirod sine, but the trouble was that tho stone could not" be got to Wellington'fast enough. Ho was determined that the walls of the buildings should be faced with marble, oven if the contractors had to go to Europe for it. He intended to havo the buildings fimshed''aecording to tho original design, and lie had no intention of allowing: it to be carried on piecemeal. If this were done it would bo a' disgrace not only to himself but to the whole Dominion. As to getting tho new Cham-ber-ready for occupation, he pointed out that the last \of the steel required for supporting tho glass roof had not arrived - till about six weeks ago. Ho agreed that i| might bs possible to complete the new Chamber.: independently of the outside walls, but if this were done there would be no new quarters' available 'for Mr. Speaker, and he would havo to go to and fro from his present rooms to tho new Cha.ml>er. ' Tha marble; he .said, was now coming to • hand a little faster, and he hoped that shortly it would be coming a great deal faster still. Someone had suggested the use of Portland "ston# but although this 4 was admittedly a good stone, it would not suit tho design of tho building. It was suggested that he should hurry up the 'contractor, but members must 'know that he could not interfere with the contractor. As to the furniture for the new buildings,' he' did not intend to allow that'question to be left until the building was finished, and after the Public Works Statement was presented he would be quite willing to set up a committee upon the'subject.

Policy During the War Period. SIB JOSEPH IVARD, speakingan regard to the Dunedin Post Office..said that it was not intended this year to take a yoto for a new building. When a new building .was constructed it would have to contain accommodation for a number of Departments in addition to the Post Office. The arrangements mado for the use of the Drill Hall would have to suffice until normal conditions were restored at the" end ; of the war, when it would be Possible to provide for a new and up-to-ate building. The samo remarks applied to the Post Office at Christchurch, where a-new building would have to be constructed at the end of the war.. During : the war it was impossible for the Government' to carry on works of tliia kind cm rin extensive scale. It had been said that .510,000 was being lipent by the Government for rent in Wellington. The actual sum was J55500. He admitted "that this was a. large sum, and thai it would be' more economical for the Government to own all its own offices, but during the war even work of'tliis kind must wait:

FINANCE BILL

SECOND READING DEBATE ' . FINANCIAL POSITION SOUND The adjourned debate on the second reading of the finance Bill was resumed. Mr. J. ANSTEY (Waiteki) said that he thought the Government might well be congratulated on the sound financial position of the country. The methods proposed. for Taising tho current year's revenue were commendably elastic. The special income tax of five per cent, might have, been graduated, but lie thought that the reason why that method had not been adopted was that it was being found that this graduated' income tax was oppressive upon various companies. Inferring to the advocated lowering of the income tax line from .£3OO to jilaO, he pointed out that if this were done tho present 20,050 taxpayers would jjav an extra .£l2 10s. per head each, ivjiicn would-yield .£250,000, while with an average income of <1200 per individual the extra ■ yield secured from the 130,000 new taxpayers at Is. Bd. per £, would l,e v£4 or .So per head. He thought tho Finance Minister would secure far more than the .£97,000 he said he would from this source. Sir Joseph Ward: - How can that be when the lowest figure is.2s. Gd. per head ? You are not basing your remarks on my return. , Mr. Anstey said that he would not advocate powering . the exemption line to i£lso, but it might safely bo lowered to .£2OO. He .was sorry the "war profits'' idea had beep abandoned, and that of "excess incomes" adopted. Certain war profits were well defined, and might easily be assessed. He contended that oldestafilished businesses would hardly be affected under the Bill, whereas now businesses would be required to pay far more than was right. He considered something in the nature of an Appeal Board would have to be set up to help the Commission. Magistrates would not always Drove competent to decide appeals. The farmers' contribution niifjht preferably have been secured by taking some of the excess prices on products tlian by taxing their incomes, which would bo difficult of discovery by many farmers. The limitation npon the, banking activities of mereantilo firms would be a serious blow to tho farming' community. Sir Joseph Ward: Nothing like that is proposed. It affects only institutions under the Banking Act. None of those lirms issue bank notes or do certain other business which is the business of a bank. Points in Criticism. Dr. A..K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said he thwigh't the Treasurer would have been wise hud he called the Public Accounts Committee together to consider this Bill, which was ono of tho most important of the session. Ho considered many clauses in the Bill should\ bo deleted. He approved of the taxation of war profits, but what the Bill proposed was to tax income. Unless material alterations were made, the Bill would hit certain peoplo and businesses very hard indeed—particularly young businesses. These wero entitled to,certain exemptions, otherwise they would bo unduly hit. The oven shilling extra on everybody's income was a serious matter, fur it meant an increase of 150 per cent, on tho smaller incomes, and only 37£ per cent, increase on tho man who paid 2s. Bd. in the wE. This was most unfair, and he Beriously asked the Treasurer to reeonsidor this point, and put this tax npon a fairer basis. He did not suggest that this had been done wilfully, but ho considered it had not received sufficient thought, and required readjustment. Another class that would suffer was the young professional man, who would be caught by the "cxcess incomo" clause, while order men whose income was stationary would not suffer to tho same extent. Ho bad introduced a deputation to the Treasurer on tho point, and was glad to hear him say that he would deal with' the matter. In England Mr. M'Kenna had exempted I he professional and salaried classes. Then there was the ease of some members of tho National Ministry, who, through tho war, had their salaries increased from .£3OO to iiIOOO a year. Their salaries wora exempt— (laughter)—but if they_ were, why

should not the income of the young professional man also bo cocempt? He strong-' ly held that a tribunal to hear appeitls should be provided. It hud been lound absolutely necessary in Britain, and was giving great satisfaction. The principle of taxation in the Bill, he held, was unsatisfactory, for it was a tax on thrift, while luxuries wore not touched. A one per cent, export tax would have been preferable U> many ways adopted in thu Bill. Last year we hail a surplus .of .£2,000,000, and it was clear that, next year we would have a surplus of over .£3,000,000. There was now in London ft reserve of over • 4 J3,000,000, and lie considered it was quite a serious thing to thus tako iiG.OOO.OOO from the pockets of the people and tie tjie'm up in reserves. It was rogrettablo that in view of these reserves the Treasurer did not propose to pay off ons single penny of our debt. This was a serious matter of which ho strongly disapproved. It would be far better for tht Treasurer to ask the poople for some doUnite sum, say, 000,000 or .£">,000,OUO, for the purpose of paying off our debt rather than merely ask people to subscribe to an indefinite quantity of Treasury bonds, for the purpose of reducing the country's war, debt. The Estimates were too bloated and no effort was being made to economise. A rainy day whi bound to come after tho war, and ws should preparo for that day as England was already preparing. Economy was the cry in Britain and should be followed here. On the contrary, wo were spending money recklessly and piling up huge doots without thought. After tlie war we would havo . to economise, and we miffht as well begin now. Bocauso no war loans ha<l been. raised locally large institutions trading in New Zealand had subscribed to the Australian loan ami thus taken money from this Dominion. It would have been far bettor had this money been invested in a New Zealand loan. AWO.OOO or <£GOfI.OOO had also been subscribed by wealthy New Zeulanders to the first British loan, and that money had also gono out of the country.- He pleaded also for the issno of somo portion of the loan in smnLl sums, so ». to enable small people to invest.

Wholesale Commandeering. J SlJDEYPunedin South) said that at.the outbreak of.war a great opportunitywas missed of commandeering the country's products. The fact that tne Ocovernment was now commandeering certain _goods at tho bidding of the. Imperial Government showed what an opportunity had been missed. If this had been done the ' war profit" could easily liave been, assessed. A reasonable tax K l )orts Might easily bring m ,£1,000,000 or £2,000,000, and it would in addition help tho local consumer bv lowering tho price of the countrv's commodities.

The Imperial Loans. Mr.W NOSWOKTHY (Ashburtoo) refemng to the statement that the Gorerumeat should have commandeered New Zealand; products-from the start of the war, said that this had alreadv taken place, m regard to mutton, beef, and ciieese. The primary producers had already made great sacrifices, and they made them gladly so long as it was to wal ' tllrou S h - He contended that the Bill as drawn up favoured the middleman—the man who was well described as he who bamboozled one partv ami plundered tho other. M,en with "bi" in-comes-under the Bill only paid lis. Bd. in tho S, and he contended that tho man with .£20,01)0 a year was rateably as well off'the man with .CSOO a year, which was right. -Aji extra impost should have been placed on tlio big incomes, and gradations made from .62000 onwards. A.ll amusements should have been taxed, as wdl. as beer. Mr. Nosworthy went on to refer to Clause 35, which provided for the Government renewing loans and debentures at higher ratos of interest if necessary, and stipulated that "no person shall be concerued to inquire whether necessity lias arisen for the payment of any liijher rate of interest." Sir Joseph-Ward: 'May I bp allowed to explain. The reason for this is that the Imperial Government has been supplying New Zealand with loans for some rime past. They are paying varying rates of interest in the .Old Country, and in consequence an increase in their rates may at any time cnuso them to date back the rate of interest we have to pay upon our loans. We aro at present paying 4 and per cent., and wo will simply have to. pay. whatever they, want us to pay. ' We cannot inquire into the position—we simply have, to pay it. This clauso is put in merely.to meat cases of that kind.

Mr. Nosworthy: I thank you for (he explanation, but I still say it is a tremendous power to give to any Minister of Finance. The members of Parliament are entitled to know these things. Sir Joseph Ward: So you would know. Mr. Nosworthy disputed the wisdom of empowering the Government to. pay for lands, taken by means of debentures", and said he would prbbablv vote against, this in Committee. He advocated the cessation of public works, and the introduction of a policy of rigorous retrenchment. Mr. J. Payne (Grey ' Lynn) dwelt upon the advantage a Siate bank would be iu the development of the country. ; The Civil Service Bonus. Mr. A. HAKBIS (Waiteinata) considered that tho income, exemption line might vory well bo reduced to .£2OO. People with that income ' wera willing and eager to contribute to the cost of the war. lie contended that "war profits" should be taxed. Sir Joseph Waaxl: What we propose consists of SO per cent, war profits—what more could you wish? It is impossible to differentiate. Mr. Harris criticised the payment of a wnr_ bonus to Civil Servants receiving •«C315 a year. The bonus should not be given to men receiving more than .£2OO a year. He asked if the Friendly Socio-, tics , had been consulted regarding the proposed social insurance scheme. Sir Joseph Ward: It was mentioned in tho Budget. Mr. Han is: But no details were given. He thought those eoci sties should have been consulted on the scheme. Ho strongly approved of the annuity sehome, which would greatly help the (societies and the community, and congratulated tho Government upon the step taken. Need for Caution. . Mr. L. Af. J.SITT (Christchurch Xorth) inquired what living man could devise taxation which woulu fall equitably upon all classes of the community. Instances could be cited of every tax falling inequitably upon somo' lew, but he was comforted by the assurance that none would pay more than he ought to pallor the preservation of tho Empire. (Hear, hear.) Moving appeals had oeen made on behalf of the young prdfessional man. But these young men wore securing their comfortable littlo incomcs the moie easily because others with whom they had studied had risked everything and. volunteered whilo they stayed behind. They should go very carefully before they gave special consideration to theso young men who profited by tho sacrifice of others. He was sorry that amusements had not been taxed. Such a tax would check waste and encourage thrift, apart from whatever its yield might be. Mr. A. 10. GLOVER (Auckland Central) advocated the imposition of an export tax upon primary products. He also approved of a tax on amusements, Mr. '1. A. H. -FIELD (Kelson) urged that iucoiup tax payments should bo classed as "expenses" in the returns of income, lie also asked that spccial consideration should be given to bush farms which were just becoming profitable. Mr. C. .1), TALBOT (Temuka) n&itteil that the .incidence of tho excess incomo tax might be inequitable in somo cases, hut this was to a certain extent unavoidable. He, liopo'l that the mercantile firms who acted as bankers for fanners would not bo hampered by the Government. Some regulation might., bo necessary, but' theso firms wero doing good work, and should not be interfered with. The social insurance schenio appealed to him, and ho was sure it would do good work in conjunction with tho Friendly Societies. \ The adjournment of tho debale was moved by Mr. J. A. Young, and the House roso at 11.20 p.m.

SIIREr RETURNS

A DOMINION .DECIIEASI;

Tho interim return of the sheep in the Dominion as at April 30 last'was presented 'to tho House yesterday afternoon by the Hon. W. .0. i?. MacDomild, Minister of Agriculture. ■ Tho figures reveal « net dnurcaso lor the Dominion of 293,553, tho total being 21,007,863, as against '21,901,121 Inst year. Tho North Island shows an increase of 370,780, and the South Island a decreaseof (164,33!). Tho district details are: Increase. Decrease. Auckland 1,836,412 155,920 —^ Napicr-Guboruo 5,087,1'Jf — | 061,061 Wellington-West Coast 0,763,094 876,527 — Marlb'ugh-Nelson-Westland 1,361,590 17,320 - Canterbury-Kai-lcourit 4,792,310 — 020,060 Otago 4,767,260 - 61,593 Tho Minister said that he had no doubt that when tho final return wns presented it would show a much hotter result. Mr. W. Nosworthy commented on the great decrease in the flocks of the Soutli Island. „ Air. .T. Anstey said that tho return was taken at the wrong time of tho year.- It should havo been taken about January. Many farmers who had fattened ewe lambs would havo conserved them had they known that 'there was a shortage in tho flocks. Mr. J. A. Young said that the fact that there was such a large increase in tho North Island indicated the development that was going, on there. 'Inhere was still vast tracts of country available in the North Island which were capable of carrying millions of sheep, and a careful watch should bo kept on the Dominion's flocks to see that they were not depleted. The Hon. D. Buddo urged that sbeep returns should-be taken on January 1, and not on April 30, as at present.' In reply, the Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald said that April 30 had been the date for the last quarter of a century. The statistics were got in as quickly as possible, but those who knew farmers would perhaps appreciate the difficulty of E e ™ng them .to send in prompt returns. They had to bo written to again and and oven now he was not convinced that the returns wero all in. The wholo of, the Dominion would not, he thought, endorse January 1 as the date. Ho was, howovcr, to go into the position and endeavour 'to give all the information possible. The statistics of eattlo had not been kept for the last few years, but tho Department was now going into tho position and-securing returns,.and so tar as these went they showed an increase of 20,000 over the figure.: taken four years ago. Somo counties had yet to send their returns in, and when all were in it was expected that there would be an increase of over 300,000, which was very satisfactory.