MILITARY SERVICE BILL

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2798, 16 June 1916, Page 7

MILITARY SERVICE BILL

MEASURE BEFORE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL THE SECOND READING Yestordiy afternoon' the Legislative Council began a. discussion' of .the-'.Mili-tary Service Bill. . The Leader, of the Counoil, Sir Francis Bell, said that his intention, now was merely to explain the purpose of the Bill, and advocate its adoption'by the Council. . classes of men' available' for 'service in a year, the first was the young man eager for the adventure, and with no dependants. That class was not yet exhausted, but 60dn must be. The view wo had to take now was different from the .view.we took in 1914, when it seemed this first class would suffice. There,was following, them, a class as willing and ■patriotic as the first, but with many ,ob-. ligations and without the spirit of ad-, .venture whiijh nioved the first class. They knew how numerous this class was By the National Register, .when over ioo,ooo'men an6wored that they were willing to serve. Of these there were many whose serviced might be required here.' Then there were the men who were against'war, and even against self-defence. Lust of all, and,;he believed, fewest of all by far, were the jiien who refused to fight—who desired that others should fight for. them.. ' ' i .. Turning from these preliminary considerations, Sir Franois remarked', againthat the first class was now nearly exhausted..! Men., were enlisting every day because others, who should go • before them, were still .standing out. Parliament was asked to set out a. reserve in the Ex-peditionary..-Forces, from which recruits . would be dra'Soi if, there .was ..a, failure - A failure to perform our part in the war would mean the resignation of the Government which gave our. promise, and that would be a serious matter for the Parliament which was behind it. The Teserve was separated into two- divisions.: The - first division was - practically -. the., unmarried men and; men who 1 , had contracted- war marriages .after, a. . certain :date. 'The second division ,was-, the remainder,: who could not be called on-.till the first divi-sion-was exhausted. The first thing .was to ascertain ; who, - what, and wero ttio meii in tho first division.'. That..would : result in: a. register of . the men- -troin whom'military service might-be demanded. The register and its- completion was a. matter -which was to, be : immediately attended to, and to bo completed without delay, it would be gone ou .with and done in any case. But it. did not follow that the register would -be used immediately. ; Thatdepended 011 .enlistment;-; Thtro was' power for. the Government- to proclaim that recruiting in a certain ; district should cease, and ■ then the iuoh required from that district would be drawn at the ballot.- That ballot .would, bo the result of a falling: off of the proper class of men within the district.- It must be insisted that men goin their proper turn, ..for. .besides, being just and fair to,the men- with, families, : that , .was lu : the interests- of the. State; The men ;who':had -nothing: but ,their country .with, a call, on.;them should*go .first.' The Hon. Mr. Paul had suggested us an- amendment in the Bill that.there should be a right of appeal-from the district boards -to- a central board. Per-" sonaily, ho sympathised- with Mr. Paul, but would reserve the rigUt to ask the Council in ; deference to ; the wishes ofi the Government not to agree to the amendment.., It had been said that the police had been given unprecedented powers under the measure. However, it should be remembered that the purpose or tho Bill- 'would be 'lurgely lost if .it did not .bring into active service those fno were. attempting to evade'.- the .'service. : The. provision was that'if When a constable was-asking'a man as, to whether he was enrolled in the-reserve, "and the man gave, evasiyo answersj the constable could arrest him without warrant. There was .unprecedented in that provision.; It was -alreadyl inTtlio -Crimes Act; but he did not wish-to treat these people as criminals, and would .refer to the Customs Act, which gave power .to detain and take; before a .Justice. : If detain and tako before' a Justice" were the words used instead of "arrest without. warrant/': the Question would.-.hot' have arisen 1 . - It was in: the, wording., of tue Bill, the mistake had been 'made, let it had: been said .that because : of this provision the liberty of tbe subject was at stake, but the provision already existed in measures, and how.'many, had had their liberty interfered;, with PThe Hon. Captairi/Baillie seconded tho motion for the-second 'reading'''of the Bill. Let the -'men -who objected to: go •to--™., !>o,. said, : join rthe ambulance: -Those who. opposed the Bill were pro-Ger-man at heart.

A Labour View. The Hon. J. T. Paul said lie gave no place"_to any :man. in: liis- desire •to - see the Allies victorious in the interests of liberty. He kuew ihat'in'speaking his mind he would be .misunderstood^and .misrepresented—not -in the Councils but outside it. :.. .It would be said that : he was opposing the .only metliod" by which" we could l win . the war. Ho went on to discuss the origin of. tho Bill, and to deal with the measure at considerable length. To call • this scherno national service was, lie said, to delude ourselves ana to invite national hypocrisy; The Bill only put aii obligation on .men. between certain ages, whereas national service was a much 'wider-'thing. ■ ; 'Ho was.one of those Who'believed'that conscription of wealth should'have preceded the conscription of men.. Labour, .he said, was .opposed',to conscription'.; .Labour hated war, and distrusted all war laws. It realised that ; from its . ranks, most of tlio men had to come, and the' greatest' sacrifices had to come. They had a perfect right to oppose!wai'.and be suspicious'of war laws.;:. He'considered the Government should have so orgawjsod the nation that everyone would render some service. Regardless of age? Mr. Paul: Yes. ' Members: You cannot do that. Mr. Paul: Well, 'if;a.man cannot fight on account of his age, and cannot serve in some civil capacity, his wealth should do called on.

Mr. Paul said that all. he coiilended for was that our forces and resources should '?**• properly organised,-, and that the men who weiit to the front would be well dono by.. The present Bill did not pretend to do any more than put an obligation on men between twenty, and fortysix. • ■ Sir. Francis Bcli: And provides- for .exemptions. . The Hon. Mr. Paul: But that was not organising our forces. Continuing, Mr. Paul termed the Bill tyrannical'and unnecessary. .The penalties,, he. contended, were needlessly harsh", and oppressive. He was opposed to tho Bill, but lie did not think he should raise any factious opposition to the measure, but do his best to improve it. He would like to see the pay increased and those who were not'prepared to serve taxed. "No Voice Should be Raised Against the Bill."

: The -Hon. R. Moor'e expressed regret at the' speech made by Mr. Paiil: Mr. Paul had, he said, made asordid address —it was money from end 'to end. He made reference to Mr. Paul's , loyalty, winch he said bo was sorry to make. He thought that no . voica should be raised against.the Bill. Ho did.not say' that tho genuine worker was not doing his duty, and ho believed that if left to himself the present objections would not be raised. Everyone, should be compelled to ?V s . an 4 one the best features of the Bill was that everyone would bo placed on a more equal'footing. He recognised we would have to keep a certain number of men here to do necessary work. JTo had made inquiries, and was quite sure that this season there would' not be half the wheat sown here that . was sown last season. He did liot wish | to raise a scare, but he did not think : there would be an abundance of wheat. Labour should be the last section of the :' community, to oppose conscription, for | they compelled men- to join unions. ' Bather than accept the views of tho socalled Labour leaders, he would prefer to tako the attitudo of.the Hillside workers. The Hon. Mr. Paul: I nm prepared to acfept that. As to conscription of wealth, Mr. Moore said that whatever tho Government

required for tho good of tho State it already took from iho people. The Hon. G. Jones: They don't appoint a board to do it. v Mr..Moore: They leave it to the good sense of tho House. • „ Mr. Moore said tho .success ' of .the measure would depend ; on the personnel of,th© boards. They would have immense power, and would need to be fair and judicious, and have a good knowledgo of their district. I" Men or Munitions? Sir William Hall-Jones defended tho Hon. J. T. , Paul from cri- , tioism for his outspoken remarks. It was the duty of. members to express their views, and personally he looked upon thß Bill with very mixed feelings. Now Zealand's record of 63,000 men who had gone, were in training,, or. had volunteered, ' was a wonderful one lor so small a population—l,ooo,ooo people, including 20,000 of foreign birth. What they proposed to do was to help tho Empire, and merely from the point of view of effecting compulsory service tlie Bill could hardly be improved upon. Upon one small point, however, he would seek an . amendment in Committee to assist the 'special, case of a widow ho had in mind.".Much was talked of the might of the; Empire, but they had to recollect .that its population of 420,000,000 included only 62,000,000 white people, while the purely British people would probably number only some 55,000,000. Tbe speaker referred to the circumstances of the outbreak of war, when Britain was not a military Power, but was content with an . expeditionary force of 168,000. He held Lord Haldane and others associated with him as being responsible for this. If he had his way,lord Haldane and some others'would not be alive now.' To his mind they were next door to traitors for concealing from the people what was the actual position. They knew the military position on the Continent and yet were content to let the people believe the expeditionary force alone was sufficient. Lord Roberts and his warnings- had been ; scorned. Fortunately for Britain she'had powerful Allies in France and Russia, both of whom were doing wonders in combating the foe. He did: not want to see the limited number of our men drawn on when we had such powerful Allies. We should have a "square deal." He believed that the want now was the same its last, year— namely, .material more than men. Superiority in artillery' was now the crucial thing, and by it the victory would be won. Britain had done wonders in the 'manufacture of munitions, but what had •we done? We had offered mechanical engineers, but they had been refused. Still/ recognising; the egregious blunders which had been made, at Home, our offer should' have been insisted on. It was better - to send men to make guns than to send men away armed 'only with' rifles. Once; we secured a predominance in artillory we. would go ahead, and he, therefore, pleaded with the , Minister .to do what ■ lie-could to foster the production of. guns and munitions.

•The Soldiers' Pay. ■ Touching oa tlie money question raised by the Hon. J. T. Paul, lie commented on the' fact that in Australia there had •been no talk of conscription.. Well, there the-soldier was paid much more tnan in New Zealand—right from tho start and through all the grades. He advocated the adoption of the Australian standard. The men were now to be taken by force, and all had financial obligations.' ■ A voice: You". will make them dissatisfied: Sir Wni.:Hall-Jones:" It was a soldier who told me : and asked me why New Zealanders were not paid as well as tho Australians. I could not tell, but promised to raise the subject. I have done my duty. He proceeded to say that the Bill was a good one, and he complimented the Minister 011 .it. It had been compared to : the English • Bill. He knew something, about that measure. • If it had not been passed, there, would Jiave been .a general election in January—and he wished to God it had taken place, for then wo would have avoided some things .. which Jiad since taken place. He strongly urged the Minister to give more commissions to the.veterans of Gallipoli. .The i present' system: was rotten in many .ways,; remedied. Conscientious Objectors. ■ The, Hon. G. Carson ' said that this Bill represented New :Zealand .rising" to the' occasion ancl offering a guarantees to the forces that they would receive adequate • reinforcements. He favoured the. Bill, and'would vote for it, although he did-not-disguise from himself what it.'meant.' It'meant taking free men if .voluntaryism ; failed, • and iii its provi-. sions and principle was unique. Theßill was deficient in not making provision for Quakers and conscientious objectors, although he.understood this defect was to be remedied in committee. He stressed tho importance of conscience, which had been responsible for making the young ?non associated _with churches enlist in a .huge proportion. Conscience had sent a great number, and was keeping back a few. He felt such men—although he could 'not understand, their attitudeshould be' given alternative service. "

A Labour Supporter. : 'The .'Hbii. J. Bavi' taid he personally considered the Bill both fair ,and just. It;was alsii,iabsolutely necessary and!in principle 'did' not interfere with tho liberty of the subject, but rather tended to. uphold that liberty so favourably known in . the British ihhpire. Twelve months ago ' would ' have been .a. better time for tho Bill than the present. Wo had not' been averse in the past to copying from Continental Powers, and could well copy ;t'he organisation of our foes in this war. •It was the disorganisation of the British Lnipire in every way whicli had mateiTally contributed to ; the length 'of. the war. Phis . Bill introduced some badlyorganisation into the Dominion. An obligation devolved upon every man of mature age t<? play his p'art for the de-' fence of the country in which he resided.. Pamphlets had been scattered broadcast, wliicli declared that tho Hill was destructive, of liberty. But what was liberty? There was actually 111 this eountry( and some others) a surfeit of liberty. He proceeded, to define liberty as not removing from the individual his obligation to -the State. They had to educate people to a sense of their duty both to themselves and to the Empire. There was an obligation upon' men to go, but there was an equal obligation upon the Stato to attend to their dependauts. He had 110 fear as to what would be done in the future. Ho held that our men were fighting for justice, and not for monoy—'to 05 per cent, the pay' was a secondary consideraHe repudiated the right of bertain self-appointed men. in the trade unionist movement to endeavour to represent that trade unionists were opposed to the Bill. These inen were seeking their own revolutionary and syndicalist ends for their own political purposes. They might question his own right to speak for Labour. He was an active member ill his own union, secretary of another union, and • president of two others, aud he mixed daily with tho workers. Prom his.experience ho was convinced that 35 per cent, of tho people wcro in favour of tho Bill. Ho had not found a returned soldier who was not ill favour of the Bill. At 10.10 the Hon. W. Earnshaw moved tho adjournment of tho debate, and the Council rose.