PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2798, 16 June 1916, Page 6

PARLIAMENT

LAND FOR SOLDIERS THE SETTLEMENT BILL SECOND READING CARRIED The House of Representatives'met at 2.30 p.m. . ■ Mr. H. J. H. OKEY (Taranaki) gave notice to ask the Prime Minister whether in view of tho shortage of meat in Australia lie will suggest to the Imperial authorities that some of the meat commandeered in New Zealand should bo sent to Australia for consumption there. The Bight Hon.,W. P..MASSES' gave notice of the Oroua Land Drainage Bill, Two days' leave of absence was granted to Mr, W, A. Ycitch (Wanganui). Tlio Napier High. School Amendment Bill (Mr. J.. V. Brown) was introduced and read a first time. LAND FOR SOLDIERS DEBATE ON THE'BILL CONTINUED itr. 11.I 1 . W. RHODES (Thames) resum? Ed the debate on tho Discharged Soldiers' Settlement Bill. He stressed the irnpurtance of giving the returned men instruction in agriculture, and suggested the establishment of special technical schools, for this purpose. The men would welcome this instruction, as by it they would obtain a position of independence in the future. Their aim should be to re-absorb tho soldiers into the civilian lite as quickly as possible. - He advocated the cutting up of some Hauraki Plains land for settlement, by soldibrs. The scheme ol the llili was a good one, but unless it was administered it would become so much waste paper. He was however, satisfied that the Government was thoroughly in earnest in the matter.

Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton) said that m his opinion the Bill did not go fur enough. The sum of . ,£500,000 was not nearly sufficient'to carry on operations on a useful scale. The Bill was very well so far as it went, but a great deal more would have to be done. He suggested that muck could be done by the acquisition of Native land for soldiers. Administration Suggestions. r 'i GUTHRIE (Oroua) congratulated the Government on tho introduction of the measure. If .it should happen that adequate provision was not made for our soldiers it would not bo because of any lack of willingness or energy'on the purl of Uio Government, but because there was not sufficient means available to do it. His only fear about tho Act was as to its administration. The proposal was to entrust tho administration of it to Land Boards but ho'feared that the Minister would find that the Land Boards had their hands trendy to be able to give duo attention to the administration of this very important Act. tic believed that the Minister would, find it necessary to create a special organisation for tho administration of this Act, similar to that established by tho Attorney-General for the purpose of aiding discharged soldiers. Special appointments of suitable necessary. He hoped that tho blocks to be cut up for soldiers would be subdivided with some intelligence, for ho regretted that he had had experience of sections that wore not cnt lip ivith duo regard to the needs of the settlers to tako up the sections. Ho hoped the Government would purchase lands all over tho country in order that soldiers might be able to get land in districts where they were familiar with the conditions of farming. He knew that .£500,000. would not bo sufficient money to carry through such a big scheme as would yet develop, but it would servo as a beginning, and ho was suro tho House would vote moro money as it was required. A great- deal of money would bo needed, because he did not believo thai v/e should send our soldiers out on to the barren hilltops and on to the poorest lands of the country. Tho proposal to purchase land by the issue of debentures'was an important one, and nno fraught with some 'danger. These debentures would fall in at the expiry of a certain time, and provision must bo made for their redemption. Against them there would be' as security an amplo asset,, but not a liquid asset, and therein lay .the danger. '■

Different Classes of Men. . The Hon. W. D. S. -MACDONALD (Minister of Agriculture) said that the Bill was a great advauco on that of last session. Ho asked honourable members to give every member of the Ministry credit for being tho friend of the boys at the front, anxious to do his best for those who had risked their lives in the service of the country. There would be various classes of men to be provided for. Some of them would havo sufficient money -to buy, land in the ordinary way, others would havo enough money and experience to take up land for set-tlement-like other settlers, requiring no other assistance from the Government than the preference at the ballot which was given them; others would be without much money, but would havo sufficient knowledge and experience to satisfy the Government that they would make successful farmers if given financial aid, ana tho fourth class would bo thos9 men who had had no previous experience of farming, but who wished to go on the land. The first two classes would not need much help from the Government, but the other two classes would need assistance, and it would be the duty of the Government to give it. The men in the fourth class, or some of them, would be able to get instruction in farming on the State Experimental Farms. He hoped that land would Le bought all over the country, and that some large areas of fruit-farming land would bo acquired. Fruit farming would bo suitable for some of the men unfitted physically for ordinary farming. Men partially incapacitated would, bo able to make a living fiom a piece of land partly planted in orchard and paTtly used for poultry farming. Opportunity offered also in bee farming for partially disabled men, and even widows of soldiers, to do fairly well. The honey industry was fast becoming important, and' last year ,£OOO,OOO worth of honey had been exported from New Zealand. There would bo always this surety for the good and careful administration of the Act,-because no branch of Government activity would be moro under the watch of the public than this of taking care of returned soldiers. The spade work had already been done, and the minister of Lands had striven with energy and enthusiasm to devise a scheme by which these inch could be provided for well. Tho Government did not intend to put soldiers on the land and leave them there to Starve. What it set out to 'do it would do well, and it might not bo able to launch out too widely at first. He hoped and believed that the Bill had the npprov»l of every member of the Legislature, and that thev would all do their best to make the Bill a success. i A Spocial Department? Mr. G. W. FORBES (Hurnnui) said lie had doubts whether the Prime Minister would have sufficient time to spare to give the required snur and initiative to make the administration of this Act successful. He bad doubts, too, about the proposals in the Act for the acquisir tion of laud. He thought the clauses in the Bill would not moke if possible for the Government to nenu'rp land speedily enough. Some "hustle" was reriuired, and he would advise the Prime Minister to hand the Ael over for ad-' ministration by a special Department, and a special Minister. Dr. A. K. NEWMAN East' said that lie.believed that in England, where a great many huts had been built for munition workers, there was a proposal lo cut.down and remove these linti 'and place them on holdings for returned soldiers. . When the time ca.me for tho dismantling of the camp at Featherston much money could be saved if the huts there were cut down under direction of an architect, and put on holdings for soldiers. He commended this suggestion to '"rime Minister. Mv. Mrissoy. T have been talking it over

with the head of tho Department tonight.

Dr. Newman: I am very glad to hear it. However, he continued, a great many soldiers would not want to go on tho laud, and thousands of men would bo Hocking to tho towns in search of employment. Something ought to be dono for these men. He urged, too, that more provision should bo made for the teaching of trades to partially disabled men unfitted by serious injuries to follow their ordinary occupations. Mr. 0. M'COMBS (Lyttclton) said that enough was not being done for the man who did not go on the land. Ho objected strenuously to the exemption of debenture interest from incotuo tax. No Need for Gloom. The Eight Hon. Sir JOSEPH WARD (Minister of Finance) said that regarding a humane proposal such as this, it was better to take an optimistic than a lugubrious view. It appeared that somo honourable members were too ready to take a gloomy view of things in order to have a tilt at tho National Government. The forecast of failure could not bo established on the experienco of returned soldiers already returned. Of the 1935 soldiers who had returned to this country already, only 372 were on tho 'employment wanted" register. Some men were in hospital and would not be fit for work for some time yet. Tho adverse criticism of tho Government's scheme was based on the supposition that every mail returning would wish to go on the land. It was also wrong to suggest that valuable farms of large area would have to be found for every soldier. He knew men who on four or five acres of land had made a great deal of money, almost fortunes, out of poultry-farming. It was a foolish and mistaken suggestion that land should be given to soldiers, free of interest or rent charge. To attempt this would be financially impossible, and it would be molly-coddling men in a way that the men themselves would resent, and resent very bitterly. It was said that half a million a year was not enough money to .vote for the purposes of the Bill. The honourable members who made this criticism forgot apparently that the scheme would develop over a period of years. It could not all .bo done at once. And if half a million a year for land for soldiers, and half a million a year for land for settlement, was not considered enough for a young country like this to spend, then he did not know what those honourable members really wanted. If we sent away 100,000 soldiers from New Zealand—if unhappily we should be required to send that number of men away—did anybody suppose tliey would all bo poured into the country at once at the end of the war? It would take two or three years to get these men back into New Zealand. If tho war went on for two years more, we might have to recast all our ideas about borrowing all these millions. All our resources would be required for carrying on the war. Ho would ask honourable members' to realise that the National Government was. sincerely desirous of helping soldiers in every possible way. Other Industries. Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) expressed the opinion that the extension of the scheme adopted some years ago in connection with . the subdivision of the Government's Waerenga .estate, in the Auckland district, afforded an opportunity of doing a great deal to settle'soldiers upon the land. By adopting a policy of this kind they would not onlysettle a lar.no number of returned soldiers upon the land,'but would make it possible for ft very profitable industry in fruit canning to be established. He considered that thousands of ■ soldier could fce placed on land in this way. Tho question of-starting the wood pulping industry . and tho manufacture of paper was one which might also well engage the attention of the. Government. A great waste of timber was.going on at present, and if this were utilised.in the way suggested it would afford employment for hundreds of men. The question of the annexation/of Fiji was also weH worthy of the attention of the Prime Minister.

Mr. R. SCOTT (Otago Central) approved of liberal treatment in regard to the payment, of rents, by deferring the payment of the first two or three years. Ho agreed with Mv. Poole that much could bo done in. regard to fruit culture and the encouragement of the canning industry. He. said that Central Otago afforded excellent opportunities in this direction. Mr. C.. J. TALBOT (Temuka) approved of the Bill. He was doubtful, however, whether, there could be any sue-, cess achieved in niacins: inexperienced men on the land. He Relieved that some of our big Tuns could be, safely cnt up, even those in snow districts. A Now Era in Settlement. Mr. H. J. H. OKEY (Taranaki) said this Bill -must mark a new departure in laud settlement. He knew blocks of land in Taranaki held in big areas by .a few men which ought to be taken for soldiers. The time had come when our ideas on land settlement must bis revolutionised. If it had been propoa'd a few years ago to take land for settlement under the Public Works Act, he would have fought the proposal tooth and nail, but these soldiers had gone to fight for our lands and they were entitled to special consideration. He favoured allowing soldiers to have land rent free for the period for which they had been on active service. .Mr. A. E. GLOVER (Auckland Central) supported the Bill. . , A Generous Offer. Mr. G. HUNTER (Waipawa) congratulated the Government on having introduced the Bill. He referred to Clause 7 of the Bill, which he regarded as one of great importance. This clause affirmed an entirely new principle—that of taking land compulsorily and paying the owner for it in debentures. lie thought the owner should have some right to say whether' he would acccpt cash or'debentures for his land. This was a fair thing. He noted that the Minister of Finance was given the solo option of saying whether the owners were to be pnid partly or wholly in cash or debentures. This option was too important to be retained by any- one man. If it was to bo retained at all it should be retained by the Govcrnor-in-Council. He would like.to see tho whole of the land saved by the drainage of Poukawa Lake, estimated to be about 4000 acres, reserved for soldiers. The member for Taranaki had suggested that laud-owners ought to be ; prepared to make some sacrifices in tho interests of. those who were fighting for the country. He agreed with this opinion, and he thought land-owners ■would be ready to make sacrifices. He was prepared as a landowner to make a sacrifice. He was not prepared to say what that sacrifice would be until ho fiavr what was in the Financial Statement, but he would place an area of land which he held at the free disposal of the Government. (Applause.) Mr. J. CRAIGIE (Timaru) approved of the Bill, but joined with other members in urging the Prime Minister to hand over the administration of the Act to another Minister. He suggested that Mr. MacDouald would do this work very well. . A Good Lead Set. The Hon. Dr. M'NAB (Minister of Justice) congratulated the member for Waipa,wa on his very generous offer. Hexpressed a hope that other landowners would adopt a like course, and follow the very good example. he had so well sot. Perhaps there were landowners who, while they were not able to make * gift of land in this way, might yet assist tho Government if they would hand over their land to the Government, allow the Government to subdivide it and put soldiers on it, and to collect the rents upon it. He hoped and believed that tho scheme to lie developed would operate generously for the good uf returned soldiers, and' that, these men would never have cause to regret having cone abroad to fight the battles of the Emnire. Mr. P. C. WEBB (Grey) declared that the settlement onestion had so far onlybeen tinkered with. He agreed that re-ti"-ned crippled soldiers should be specially, educated before being put to trades or upon the land. Mr. W. Tf. FIELD (Otaki) supported tho Bill. He said, however, that many amendments would yet he necessary, and that the scheme would develop gradually into a very big one indeed. He did not, approve of inexperienced men being placed on bush land. Their best duty was to offer some training to the men, and he therefore hoped to see the Gov'prnment shortly, establish a largo agricultural collese in eac hisland.

Mr. Massey: Hear, hear. ilr. Field said city technical schools should also bo enlarged for the industrial training of tho men. Mr. J. I'ayno (Grey Lynn) also 6poke and cited Bouruoville as an instance of successful settlement. Mr. T. A. H. Field (Nelson) urged tho Government to secure land for settlement in Westland. PRIME MINISTER IN REPLY. ' The Patriotic Societies. The Right Hon. W. F. MASSEY replied at UJo a.m. Thero was, ho said, every reason why they should endeavour to place as many men as they could ou the land. First of all, the soldiers deserved it, and then when tho war was over the country would find itself with heavy liabilities and commitments, and everything possible should be done to increase tho country's productivity. Some' very useful suggestions had been made during the debate, and he had noted them. He would like to acknowledge tho good work being done by tho patriotic societies and by the people oi the Domiuion themselves. Nearly "JE2,000,000 had been subscribed for the benefit of the soldiers. Without finding fault with any other society, he would especiall) like to mention the good work being done by the Wairarapa Patriotic Society. This society receutly offered to select land for the soldiers to settle on, and thereaftei to select the soldiers as settlers. More important still, they offered to use their funds by lending money to the settlerr at low rates of interest for the purpose •'of building homesteads and improving Elie property. This was a particularly good example to set. and he hoped it would 1)(*. followed in other quarters. Ho believed that both Taranaki and Hawke's Buy were following in these lines.

Good Land Scarce. Reference had been made to tho difficulty of securing good land. The big areas mentioned in the Year Books were mainly pastoral blocks, and utterly unsuited for closer settlement. Good laud was very scarce and difficult to procure, and to achieve success good land was necessary. It had been suggested that the soldiers should not te asked to go into the backbloclcs. He agreed that where a man was disabled or affected .this would be unwise, but where a man was young and strong he would be far better advised to go out into the back-blocks. He would be much better off in fifteen years' time than the man who .stayed near the city. The suggestion had been made by the member for Riccarton that native land should be used. He was glad to say that during the last twelve months the Native Lands Department had purchased 153,000 acres.. (Hear, hear.) All of this would not be available for set- ' tlement by soldiers, but probably at least 100,000 acres could be utilised. Suggestions had been made that a special officer, or special officers, should be appointed to superintend the administration of the Act.. From what lie had seen of the number of applications coming in he had come to the conclusion that it might be necessary to appoint an officer in each of the important land districts of the Dominion. He believed that men could, with advantage, be settled on fruit farms, for he liad a great belief in the future of the fruit industry. The Minister of Agriculture had arranged to take over 100 acres of land in the North of Auckland, worked-out gum reserve laud, and plant it out in • fruit trees If tie experiment turned out" well i the land would be subdivided and handed over to ' soldiers. Instructions had also been given for the purchase of some land in Nelson.

No Aggregation. A number of welcome offers had been made of suitable land, especially in tho last few days, and they would all !o considered. Something had been said regarding aggregation. He had givji] instructions, to the Department to report all cases of supposed • aggregation, with a view to inquiry being niade, and up to the present no cases of aggregation had been reported. He did not say. that there was actually no aggregation taking place, but he honestly believed that for every one case of possible aggregation there were_ twenty cases of subdivision. He denied the suggestion thai the method proposed 'in the Bill of taking land was slow. ''It was-as fast as could bo attained. In view of the fact that for the last twenty' years the Governments of the day had placed on the land 2000 settlers every year, he considered that with enthusiasm and energy the Government under this scheme alone would be able to place 1000 settlers on the land annually. As to the suggestion to capitalise or remit rents for the first few years he was prepared to adopt both courses. They would , meet the soldiers in every reasonable way, and assist them to get upon their feet. The second reading- of the Bill was agreed to on the voices. The House rose at i.23 a.m,