PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2776, 20 May 1916, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY THE DEBATE CONCLUDED "CONSCRIPTION OP;WEALTH" FINANCE MINISTER ON THE LABOUR GROUP, The House of Representatives met at 2.30 Jj.m. •" .The New Zealand Insurance' Company Trust Bill- (Mr. J. S. Dickson) was read ft seciHid time. Mr. Dickson explained that the object of the Bill .was to give the company power, to aot as trustees, a.power that has been conferred on other insurance companies. The Et. Eon. SIR JOSEPH WARD supported the-Bill, saying that theregould be nothing objectionable in . .the. Bill. Rather, ho thought,; it was a good thing that a big corporation like the New Zealand Insurance Company should havo the powers which the Bill would give. Mr.. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn)' said he thought the company shpuld be compelled to stick to insurance business. He opposed the Bill.' Mr. Payne demanded'-a division, but the second leading was agreed-to by 43 .Votes to 7.. THE GAUIPOLI MEDAL. Dr. NEWMAN (Wellington Bast) gave notice to ask the Minister of Defence whether the Government would communi. cate with the British Government urging that the Gallipoli medal be distributed /without delay.

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY ' THE DEBATE CONCLUDED SIR JOSEPH WARD:SPEAKS SIR JOSEPH AVARD (Minister of finance) resumed the debate on the Ad-dress-in-Reply. , He said at.' the, outset that lie had alw'ays. been of the opinion that the Rebate on the Address-in-iteply was an .utter waste, of time, and that the sooner the farce was ; aliolislied th'e bet' ter. He proposed to answer,: however, Eome things'that had been'said by way of innuendo, false suggestion, and gener.aiised.. inaccuracies.. Some' membei'3 ' eeemed to think that because a National 'Government was formed they could say. What they liked about the Government. These men, who had done nothing, dur. ing the recess to make; conscription un. necessary, or to. keep, down-.-the cost oi living, now came forward with an air of superiority, and; said .that' the ment had done nothing; that it had no policy, nor originality, and no imagination. Some had gone so- far as to. say that it was a disgrace to the country, ■ and he. believed,, they- had had sleepless nights ever , since." " , Mr. Webb: I said it,.and I'neyer'had ileepless nights. ■. Sir Joseph Ward: Well, the honourable nember has looked more distressed than I havo ever seen him, and that is saying something! He went on to condemn further the promiscuous attacks on the Gov- . arnmeut. Mr. :- M'Coinbs interjected something about "cost of pving." ... ,-" ; Sir Joseph Ward said that ho had been responsible, for granting to : the' Christchurch City Council and other local bodies the right to take. stops to keep down 'the priccs oi bread, meat, fish, butter, cheese,and sach foodstuffs. But since the hon-. curable member who now interjected' "Cost of living" , had been in,the Christ-; church City Council he had .'never made ' the. slightest move to take: action Tinder,-' the powers so conferred; : 'Ho ■ liad'-.done' absolutely nothing; Wh'jv'if 'such-a calamity were to overtake , this , country as to ccme under tlie rule of the honourable . gentleman and his friends more impositions would bo put ou the workers than ■ ever before!. . . Mr. Webb: By whom? -r Sir Josei'h Ward: By you.- He went pn to speak of the members in the House ;<f Mr. M'Combs's party; These honourable - members had refused to 'accept tllo /'responsibility of coming- into the. National Government.' Why was the National Gov- . ernment formed? It was formed on;the gravest crisis that bad ever come' upon the Empire, to help the Mother Country to carry on !the war, and to prevent the intervention of party politics 'between . this country and its duty. . It wasidlo to decry the Government for its;lack of policy, and- they were using the war to trad fault With the Government iii'-ortler to make'themselves popular and to catch "■votes. If ever there was a time: when' the Government deserved the support of the p-tfnle'and of members it'was now; Ho and liis colleagues had come, into the National Government with theconsent of every member in his .'party, and the sinking of parly differences, was by no means an easy matter. liather it was the iiiost difficult thing ever- done in political affairs in New Zealand. Yet some honourable members w-ere attacking the National Government as a whole, and thereby deliberately »ttacking tho' .xiolitical friends of a lifetime, in order-to gratify, their own personal, - ambitions. Such aetion was, unfair io ! the country and to the constituents; who returned, the'm. Not an Intriguer; . A few, a very few, inen had suggested lo him that lie. should "puil out" from ;ne Cabinet." But, he had never' teen an intriguer in politics. . He', hated and ' loathed a'.traitor in . politics as in-every, tiling else, ana he would not . be false , to Ills, colleagues in'; the Government-for the fake of his own ambiticiis: - Mr. Webb: Who asked you to withdraw? No Labour men as far as I-know, '•- Sir Joseph Ward said lie would' discuss it further :if ever that should seem de--titrable, and if .necessary.; he would name men. He urged with',- empliasis that it was. the duty of members to postpone party girding at members of the Government until after tlig War. For tlie present, members of the. Government were tongue-tied and could not reply. • Telefunken'Wireless. A statement had been made by the . .member for Grey Lynn which was ''worse than contrary to inet." That statement was made evidently; with the idea of creating an impression that German influence was at work within the Administration. It was stated that there.were jighteen Germans in thy Telegraph. OiUce, md that the Government had rejected the tender of a British company 10 accept the tender of a German .company, -when' we were setting lip our wireless* stations in New Zealand.; No member of the Na-' tlonal Ministry except himself could liavu had anything to do with these matters. But the member for Grey Lynn, although perhaps''he did not know it, was actually urging that t'lie.'Governineilt ought not to have adopted a 'British system, but should have adopted ii, German one; This was what he urged.! When tenders were called'four, were received, but one was with, drawn, leaving tliree, and every oiie of the tluee, it seemed at «he time, was for a ioreign patent. One of these was from Hit Telcfunlicn Company, -and another from the Anglo-German Wireless Syndi- . cate, a company represented by Mr. Crooks m Auckland, Who was Mr. Payne's informant. In the :course of inquiries on the tenders, a cablegram was sent to t'iie High Commissioner asking him -to ad. vise as to the standing of this Anglo-Ger-man Syndicate. The High Commissioner's reply was that it was a! German syndicate," that the system was practically untried, and tlr.it the .company s capital was limited. Yet, for the purpose of injuring him, it had been suggested that the Government ought, to have acccpted the tender of. this company. He declared finaly that the company whoso tender was accepted; the Telefuiiken Company, was a British company, whoso system was in uso in Australia and in very many British', ships. By the adoption of that system the Government saved <£30,000. But before' the system was adopted the question of whether the government should adopt a foreign patent was referred to tho Admiralty, and tho 'Admiralty Teplied that there was no objection. Tho only request of the Admir-

alty was that British operators should bo put in charge of the stations.No German-Influence. About the eighteen Germans alleged to be employed in the Telegraph Department. Tho fact was that there was only oue man who could be accused in any way of German connections. That mans grandfather was a German, but his father aud mother were born iu England. Tha seventeen-oTner men -who had been mimed were in the j>ostnl service,, .lie detailed particulars about..them all, showing that they were not' nil' of them Germans. .One, who had atrived in this -country When one year of age, and who was now (il years old, was a German, ami he was still kept in the service. Three were "of Swiss origin, and 1 seven were not. even of alien origin. Others were Brit-ish-born subjects. One or two had been interned. ' It was' not true to stiite that the Government of this country had been m the habit of helping enemy (manufacturers by buying their goods for the. Government. The Railway Department had followed the'policy of purchasing British goods, cveii when the jirice's i were coiisidernbly above the Continental prices. This hnd been the policy in ithe Railway Depart ment'for 13 years. Since the war drastic steps, had been taken to remove tor all time from our market the competition of enemy firms now established in New Zealand. These firms' .businesses were to be liquidated forthwith, and their establishments closed down.

' Scrap's of Paper, He condemned the. action taken by some against British-bom , subjects with loufouic names. He wanted to know if the Houso would authorise the Government to tear up written contracts with naturalised men. ltow could the House declare that such-'men should be treated as aliens? Was the.constitutional aspect of tlie matter to be disregarded? Members, who were active in suggestion .and Innuendo kiiew that the Government had'no power to do what they suggested. Suoh an action, in any case, would be on. a' par with' the tearing up by the Germans of their treaty with Belgium. Her refusal. to recognise that act hail cost Britain a billion and a half, and the raco was proud'of the: refusal. ■■ He was not going to have these innuendoes made by the reading of names. ." It was being suggested that they should ignore the solemn obligations of the country in regard to some;, men. Such men were, entitled to every, respect ami the rights -which were, constitutionally theirs. The. suggestion was even made that a Minister of the Crown, : born in this country, with a brother fighting in the British Army, was-i responsible for pro-Gerimiu actions. 3Je ..could not stand by and listen- to - '.such suggestions without the most indignant protest. (Hear, hear.)

The Comina of Compulsion. Some'-honourable members were anticipating ''compulsion in - New ■ Zealand. (Hear, hear.) ■ Ho would not discuss the liill, but he would say, with a full sense of- responsibility, that some men who' hail 'spoken ill the House against conscription had not lent a hand in the country-.to assist voluntaryism, and had even*' made 1 suggestions ; to' the workers that Hiey ■ should stand out for certain thingj "' which the speakers knew to be impossible. They could not get awuj from the logical conclusion that such an fiction. held' many men back from enlist, ing:' (Hear,' hear.) Yet these men professed to be anxious for the continuance of; voluntaryism. ' But this hanging back wliich hiiil been encouraged meant mere, ly that conscription had;to come. The Minister' of Defence had been attacked directly. and indirectly, but the one unnr.swerable thing was that sinco the wai 60,C00 troops had been equipped and trained for the front.' This was not only -magnificent—it was marvellous. Mistakes had .to be made—nny man who could provent then would be a Colossus of Wisdom. . Voluntaryism had provided 60,000 men in two years out of a possible .200,000 men capable of fighting ivho existed in New Zealand. There were not many-men and.women who .would inot rather see conscription in New Zealand than see the country go down. And 1 if .we could not obtain the men, then those who would not support conscription should belbraiided as '.hi'rant cowards. The. necessities of- : the ",time. .required---"a reversion to- conscription, and although "he .detested Prussian militarism and its associations, he had :to recognise that the foe had to bo defeated by whatever means possible.

"Conscription of V/calth." Dealing with conscription of wealth, Sit Joseph Ward said/that he had long recognised that what was regoided as wealth had', to bear the great cost of the war, | Some people talked platitudes about tho conscription of wealth, but they did not realise what they were talking about. Did they know that in last year, alone the fixed mortgages in this country increased by ilt),OtlO,UOi) ? ,£12,(i"J0.000 had been paid oil' Mortgages, and ,£22,000,000 put on,, so that now ,£]21,000,0K) remaineil on fixed mortgages. If the duty were placed upon | the Government of conscripting wealth, was Unexpected that they should take over i!120,c00,000 on fixed mortgage? Was the Government to subscribe the overdrafts of 'all- business men? They could not tako the profits ' without also' taking the liabilities. Even if there were ,£9,000,000 of war profits, last'year—which there, were not—why sho.uld a' man.with a mortgage of .£2009, who received £4000 in profits, not pay' off his mortgage, or a man with an overdraft of ,£SOOO, who secured JIGOOO, not pay oft' his overdraft? Surely they were entitled to do it. Could they take over, from one side without providing for the liabilities upon the other? Without alluding to anything in the Financial Statement, he wanted to say that when he heanji sensible men ,-ti'ying that they should reduce the cost'of living by taxing profits,',he could not understand the reason or logic by which they arrived at their conclusions, liven if the lloiifo gave the, Go'rernment power from to-mor-row morning to take the whole of our war profits—not only half—it would not pay for the cost of the war to Mew Zealand for nine months. He wanted to' kiiow where the country would be then if tho war stopped, and there were no more profits to come? "We want the assistance of ovcrybody in this House," said Sir Joseph 'Ward. ' "I.et us realise when we hnve the financial proposals before us that they must be the subject ior wise and judicious conference' by the men on both ■sides of the House, without any of what I call pin-pricking criticism. Do you realise that the. ordinary; requirements of the country this year alone will he up. wards of ,£17,000,000? One man may call out to borrow locally, certain newspapers may join in that cry, and still others may call upon us to take the people's wealth. Apart from these cries, 1 wish to say ! that at this junctirro we are safe and strong, and 1 believe we can go right through this war ami qome out well, and do our part successfully.' ButHt is not a time for pin-pricking—it is a time for active and solid co-operation." Sir~ T oseph Ward resumed his seat with the remarlc that he would not have spoken except for certain remarks which he held sapped at the foundations of good government. Anoth.sr Version. The Hpn. 1(. H. KHODKS (Bllesmere) conuncnded the Governor's Speech as one of the best that he had ever heard, lie referred to a complaint hy a member of the Expeditionary Force, mentioned by Mr. J, c Thomson in his speech, in conned tion with his (Mr. lthodea's) inspection ol convalescent Jiew Zealanders at the island of Leninos. Tho allegation was that at a parade of the men on the island lie lmil remarked that the men looked well and appeared to have no complaints. He had previously visited all the men in hospital 011 the island, and perhaps after that the convalescents who were on parade would naturally look well. He did not remember exactly what he said, lint even if he did say. that the men looked woll and appeared to have no complaints no' fault that he could see could be found with him. The insinuation that he had taken tho wind out of.the men's sails and had prevented them making complaints was absurd. He walked up and down the lines, talking with the men and the men had ample opportunities of lodging complaints. As a matter of fact, lie did rcceive some complaints—not in regard to the caterine. but in regard to the postal service. When the Estimates were under consideration lion, members would have a full opportunity of criticising what he had done during his visit t.ri the'front. Tn regard to securing control at the end of the war of the portion of Gallipftli inwhich New Zealanders were interested, lie said that he bplieved that tho British Government would be glad to give tho Dominions ample representation on any body of control that

might be set up in connection with this territory. A scheme hiul beeii drawn up by the Controller of the Barrall Gardens for the. planting of the area with trees indigenous to the countries represented, for the making of paths, and the building of a church. The scheme might be premature, but lie proposed to submit it to the Government.

Tribute to Mr. Allen. The Hon. G. W. RUSSELL (Minister of Internal Affairs) also spoke in the debate. He replied first of all to the criticisms levelled at the Government by Dr. Newman. Referring to tho honourable member's declaration of the preceding night that he thought more of the .war expenses ought to be paid for out of taxation and not out of loau, ho reminded Dr. Nev.man that in a speech on the same subject less than a year ago ho (Dr. Newman) had opposed the lovying of too heavy taxation, and had said that two millions of taxation was too much. He said that thero were still a few, a very few. .members left in tlie House who sought to play- the party game, but fortunately they were men of little influence. practically unknown in the conntry. A few attacks had been made on the Minister of Defence, a gentleman with whom, he had foueht as bitter parly fights ns any two members in the House. "But.'' lie said, "I am bound, as fin honest man, to say that no man in this country has more devoted-himself l to the great responsibilities of his office than he has, and no man has given his entire services so freely and ungrudgingly as the Hon. Mr. Allen, Minister of Defence." In reviewing the work of the Department of Internal Affairs, Mr. Russell said that already 4301) men had returned from the front, aud 1(130 had passed through the convalescent homes of the country. Tho policy of the Government was to treat each inan nearest his own home, and establish in each island a convalescent home. The one at I'otorua had now been established for some time, and the other, at Hanmer, would bo opened shortly. A special establishment had ..been created at Puketeraki, near Dunedin, for' those suffering from neurasthenia. 'In patriotic funds New Zealand had raised nearly ,£1,000,(MO for the soldiers. These funds were now federated and organised, and would be a great benefit <o the soldiers. He detailed in some measure ths work to bo undertaken by the Women's National Reserve in organising women to take the place of men ill civilian employment. To a Single Replying to the member 4or Grey, he said that he' had watched carefully the speeches of the honourable member, and he had never once heard him say that he hoped Britain would win the war. Mr. Webb: You haven't read Hansard then l . ' Mr. Russell said he hoped the member for Grey, being himself without encumbrance, would follow the'good examplo of otlier ' members of Parliament who had volunteered for. service, and. come forward and prove himself a patriot before he was conscripted. Mr. Hindmavsh: What about your sons? How many of them are at the front? Mr. Russell: Two. . Mr. Hindmarsh:- How. many have you got? Mr. Russell: I've got more than you, and I'm proud of them. Mr:, Hindmarsh:. All mine havo gone. 1 Mr. Russell said- that the New Zealand Pensions Aot was the most liberal in existence. ■ And ho was. advised that the present patriotic funds, wero sufficient ti igive a 50 per cent, subsidy ou all pensions likely to be paid as the result of'the war. for the next 15 years. .An lion, member: You are relying ou the patriotic funds, then ? Mr. Russell: I would ask .the honourable gentleman for what purpose havo the patriotic funds been raised if not for tho relief of the widow and the orphan? Mr. Pletcher: But not to relieve the of its responsibility. Mr. Russell said that it .was very satis, factory to know that even at tha present high rate of pension, the generosity of the people, had been so great as to provide for/a' 60 per cent, supplementation upon them. An "Incident." Mr. Webb, in personal .explanation, said that he nad, always in the House : ' and : 'in public, ' ilgcliirccl," in. f iivour, ; r , of" "'..the'; isritisli' ".'cause'.': 11' The. Minister-Had practically called him a pro-Geriiiati. '. That was one of the most cruel and cowardly utterances Mr.- Speaker intervened to call thu honourable member to order for tile ex. pression "cowardiy," and asked 'him Ko withdraw .it. Mr.. Webt) withdrew without .demur. Mr. Hinamai'sh (referring to Mr. Russell) : He wouldn't dare, to say it outside. Miserable cur! . 'Mr. Speaker: Did the honourable member say that referring to any member of this House ? ~ Mr. Hindmarsh: Yes; I did, Sir. Mr. Speaker directed him that he must withdi'iw tlie remark and express re--B r „e t* ' . ' " Mr. Hindmarsh: Well, Sir, I'll just think for a minute. . .. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member is not entitled to that. He must withdraw and express regret at ouce. Mr. Hindmarsh (hesitating): Well, I withdraw it on this occasion. Mr. Speaker: The honouraCle member must not trifle with the Chair. Mi'.'Hindmarsh: 1 am not trifling, Sir. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member must express regret. ' Mi'. Hindmarsh: . Well, . I —l—l— I—;I suppose the proper way is,-—I express regret. Mr. Russell, in reply to Mr. AVebb, said that if the honourable member would tell him of one meeting which he had addressed for the purposes of getting men to enlist he. would apologist. Mr. AVebb (emphatically): No! No! It is not my intention to inflame tho minds of young people to go and leave their dependants . Mr. Speaker interrupted to instruct tho honourable member that he was out of order in expressing 'nny opinion. An lion, member: He won't recruit! Mr. D. H. GUTHRIE, the mover of the resolution, replied briefly, thanking the speakers for the compliments paid to himself and" tho seconder. The motion was agreed to, and tho House rose at-8.25 p.m.