TRENTHAM CAMP

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2578, 28 September 1915, Page 6

TRENTHAM CAMP

"THE CURSE OF DELAY" MEDICAL OFFICERS CRITICISED TRAINING THE FIRST ESSENTIAL DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE Trent-ham Camp, and the Commission's reportupon it., were discussed by the House o.f Representatives last night. The Hon. J. Alton moved that tils report of tho Royal Commission oil Trentham Camp be referred to the Government for consideration. He did not make any ■ comment on the motion, which he moved simply to put the re-, port before the House for discussion.

Who Was to Blame? Dr. Thacker (Christchurch "East) said that the Commission was appointed hurriedly, and there ought to have.been a military man on the Commission. He bad no' fault to find with' the Chairman of the body, but he would have preferred to see suoh a man as Colonel Chaffejy.of Canterbury, on the Commission. He declared that ' Mr. W. Ferguson showed strong local-bias in favour of Wellington, and ho did not think that a harbour engineer was the best man that could have been cliosen. Tho general opinion of the country was that the Commission was set up to smother a huge blunder, but although the report had endeavoured-to do this with a- multiplicity of words, it had failed even in this. The Commission, virtually the jury set up by the Government to try the Government for the offencss of the Government, had returned _ a "not proven" verdict. ;Of the Minister of Defence he said that Mr. Allen had been over-weighted by his colleagues with tliree very big portfolios,' and doubtless, capable man as he was, he would; havo won through but for the great war coming upon us. Thoonly blemish on the work of the dispatching of our Forces was the lack of proper regard for the health of the men. The outbreak of measles was due, as all efflorescent skin diseases were always due, to too close confinement and lack of proper sanitary arrangements. These diseases reduced the vitality of'the men, and the graver sickness came after them. Now, however, the camps were in tip-top condition,'and the men were well. For the, great epidemic at' tho camp ho hold Colonel Gibbon, Chief of the General Staff, immediately responsible, because he allowed more.men to come into camp -than 6hould have come tli«re at a time when au epidemic- wag raging there. If Colonel Gibbon, -had advised Mr. Allen not to send,any more men tu Trentham, Mr. Allen would not have sent them, for always Mr. Allen's adherence to his officers had been abiding; - Ho did not admit that the blame ought to he laid oh the shoulders of Colonel Purdy, Director of Medical Services. ' Dr. , Purdy, ho added, is not the discredited man that - people think, him. Dr. Thacker criticised adversely, the administration of Dr. Valintine. In Trentham now he thought too many men were still housed in the,hutments.

The Curse ef Delay. Dr. A. K. Newman (Wellington East) said that ho did not proposo to refer much to the wretched past. He knew about as much about Trentham. before he got-tho report as ho did afterwards. Like most ltoyal Commissioners' reports it avoided the real issue, .and jdid not say who was guilty.' What he rosa to say . was that mistakes were still being made at Trentham,' and. there was still'neglect of duty,' and thore was still delay. We had now with us General Henderson, a medical officer of experience and excellent ability, but it was useless for us to import a doctor, if he could not have his wishes carried out. General Henderson had made sevoral useful suggestions, but so far as ho could see the suggestions were not going to be carried out. Ah hon. member: No time. Dr. Newman: No time! Tho curse of the whole Trentham Camp is that they have had too much time. Nobody has .done his duty in time. The hutments were not built in time, tho roads were not made in time, the hospital was not built in time, the racecourse buildings were not taken in time. The curse of the camp has been delays and delays. Dr. Newman referred to the dola-y even up till the present in the construction of baths, and he saidit was accounted of the utmost importance nowadays that soldiers should have warm baths, even on active service. But Trentham Camp had been in existence for twelve months, and tho' supply of bafchs was still inadequate. It was preposterous to say in a country like this that t'he baths could not be provided. There was no reason why 200 baths should not be sot up in a fortnight. Why were these baths not in readiness? He said it was absolutely necessary that the huts should bo lined because unlined huts were not lit for men to live in. He trusted that General Henderson's advice would 'be followed . in this matter. .General Henderson had . recommended incinerators in which to.destroy refuse. Why were these not supplied? The curse of the camp was delay. He instanced tho promptitudo of Earl Kitchener, as a contrast with the delay in connection with,the camp.

The Camp To-day. He had no praise for the camp as it was now. It seemed to'him that with the chances of improving it which the •uithoritics had had, they should have made it better than it was. The new huts were too thickly on tile ground, they were not placed to get all tho sun, and they wore not well ventilated. Ho would warn the Minister that there was an unnecessary amount of dust about Trentham Camp, and more still in the camp at Feathorston, If the Minister did not see that steps were taken to romove that dust he would have summer diseases among the men, diarrhoea and other things. There was, still an unnecessary, amount of disease at the camp, and unless reforms were effected, unless the liuts wore lined, and the incinerators built at once there would be more. He would also recommend the Minister to move the men occasionally on to new, clean ground. Tho causes of all the trouble were the delays, and tlie putting of men too thick on the ground. General Hendersou had, he believed, made a most valuable report, but a doctor could only give advice. He could not shoot an officer if he delayed in doing his duty, he could not dismiss, a man. He (Dr. Newman) warned the Minister that if reforms were not effected there would trouble again. If General Henderson's suggestions were not carried out there would bo more 'trouble. Ho would recommend tho Minister to give effect to any recommendations General Henderson might make. Ho strongly advised tho Minister to send somebody down to Samoa to look alter the health of our force there, someone who would sco that the barracks were put in a proper place, and to ace that things were properly done, in tho interests of the nien there. ' If tho Minister allowed affairs to drift at Samoa he would have the same trouble there as lie had had here.

Hidden Diseases. Mr. J. l?ayno (Grey Lynn) said that osjq should Be taken to provent hkWea

diseases amongst the soldiers. It was a time to prevent, and not to moralise. Every man that left Now Zealand should be lectured on the aire effects of these diseases, and shown how to prevent them. It was one of the most important things in connection with our public health, for not only were the men themselves ruined but they spread disease everywhere. Mr.- T. M. Wilford (Hutt) said he had come to the conclusion, since the National Government was formed, that this-was not the, time for recrimination, and he had decided to make no remarks on what had been termed the Trentham scandal. The position had changed, and they should not now do anything to embarrass the party in power. He urged, however, that every assistance should be given SurgeonGeueral Honderson; TJio people were not going to tolerate any Ministry "tinkering" with tho recommendations of General Henderson; what -he recommended had to be carried out, no matter at. what cost. Nobodv knew as much as he did, and what be said had to go.. • Mr. C. H. Poole (Auckland West) said that the "house-cleaning'' thai had been going on at Trentham for some time was a clear vindication for the agitation that took place before the Commission was set up. There was now a better chance for tlio health of ■our soldiers-. He it fit and proper that when tho medical men in charge made a recommendation there should be alert ears to hear it: They had imported General Hendelrson to take over medical control, 1 and all his recommendations should be carried out.

A Capable Commission. . Mr. C. J. Parr (E<len) deprecated .any attack on the personnel of the Commission. <He doubted if a more capable lloyal Commission could have been found. Furthermore, ho understood that Sir Joseph Ward was consulted as to the personnel, and agreed to the members selected.. It was not only a mistake, but a gross injustice to suggest that this Commission was not capable. It wai. ridiculous to say tbat the Reform Government picked .their own jury to "smother" matters up. Dealing with the report,_ he said 'that he was bound to admit it was a record of official bungling. While there was official muddling and ineptitude on the part of the officials at tho camp it was hardly worth whilo digging it up. Punishment' was only with the idea of preventing a recurrence, _ and there would be 110 recurrence in this case. He believed the Minister would gladly avail himself of the advice of General Henderson. He believed there was no foundation fqr the rumour that the Minister intended to flout the advice of General Henderson. Mr. T. A. H. Field (Nelson) said that the report was a very depressing one, and snowed incompetence in the medical service. Judging from the report and any military text book they saw that the most elementary rules of military sanitation were neglected in the camp. A state of .overcrowding , was allowed to exist, and a state of I chaos prevailed in the military service. During May Colonel Purdy, according to liis evidence, said that the measles were epidemic, yet large bodies of men began to. come in three days afterwards, and the measles became malignant, followed by pneumonia, and the. result was the sacrifice of valuable young men. It had been said that the Director of Medical Services had no authority. It .was his duty to see to hospital accommodation and see to the sanitation of the camp. Until Dr. Valintine was put in charge everything seemed to ho going from bad to woirse. What was the country going to do for pensions' for the dependents of those men who died at Trentham P Those men deserved our honour and our pity. Their lives were sacrificed without them being able to do anything for the cause they had most at heart. The country should see that adequate provision was made for their dependents. Mr. P. C. Webb (Grey) complimented Dr. Thacker on the part ho had taken in connection' with the agitation. He was sure, after the promise made by the Defence Minister, that the House would not rise till something was done for the dependent of those men who had died from disease contracted at Trentham. '

An Attack on Colonel Purdy. Mt. J. H. Escott (Pahiatua) said that ■ everything had not yet been put right. Ho contended that Colonel Purdy should not have allowed the Trent-ham Itegiment and a largo draft of reinforcements to go into camp after the sickness had become epidemic. Mr. Wilford: That is quite incorrect! Mr. Escott: Had he been an efficient medical officer, had ho done his duty, ; ho would havo recommended to the officer in charge that no, further men should have been drafted into Trentham camp; that sickness was becoming alarming, and for that reason some of" the men should have been shifted to another camp. Mr. Wilford: There is not a tittle of foundation in faot for what you aro saying. Mr. Escott: "Had Colonel Vahntmo taken charge three months earlier a great deal of trouble- would have been avoided, and many valuable lives would not hare been lost." He would not havo said anything about the matter had not bo t found that Colonel Purdy was still in the service. Mr. Wilford: Will you judge him when the Commission found him not guilty P Mr, Escott; Xou will ess to $9

finding of tho Commission is. a strong condemnation of Colonel Purdy. Mr. Wilford: That is, absolutely incorrect. Mr. Escott: I feel perfectly certain that I have only to refer honourable members to the report, and they cannot como to any other conclusion than that I have come to. I may say I have never met Colonel Purdy, but, I judge him merely vpon what- I find in this report. Mr. Wilford: You are unjust. Mr. Escott: I feel that if he had ex-ercised judgment, had been a strong man, and had the qualifications necessary to be placed in a camp such as Trentham, much of' the trouble would not havo been caused. Mr. Payne: What was he being paid? £150 a year. : ■ Mr. Escott: £150 a year, and ss. per head for tho recruits he examined. I believe the total payment be got was about £800. ' Mr. W. H. Field (Otalci) asked the Minister to definitely'state in his reply what would be dono for the dependents of those men who died in camp.

MINISTER iN REPLY. DEFENCE OF THE COMMISSION. The Hon. J. Allen, in reply, said that he did not think any words of his were necessity to justify the appointment of the Commission. Judge Hosking was a Judge of proved ability and experience; Mr. Ferguson was a most capable engineer, and a vory valuable engineer. As to Dr. Thacker's demand for a military officer on tho Commission, ho would ask that honourable gentleman whether Dr. Martiu was' not a military officer. Dr. -Martin was a medical officer, and one who -had had experience on active service in the present war. He suspected that the member for Christchurcih East was not satisfied with the report, and he found fault with the Commission because of this. Dr. Thacker: I am satisfied with-the report. Mr. Allen:'"So am_l, but I think J am < much better satisfied with the report than lie is." He referred to the statement that he was overloaded with three portfolios. He would remind honourable members that Sir Francis Bell had relieved him wholly of the Department of, Education, and the Minister of Public . Health-had taken part of the -Defence portfolio, and the Prjme Minister had iaken tho portfolio of Finance before the Trentham difficulty arose. He admitted, however, that this left him with a great deal of work still to do.

The Medical Servioes, Something had been said about the imperfections of _ the medical side of our Defence administration. • Honourable members would recollect that when our training scheme''was set up, the Government had to be careful about spending money. He would have liked to Lave had in New Zealand an officer of the Royal Army Medical Corps, but, again, there cropped up the question of expenditure. The Defence expenditure 1 had been severely criticiscd. He was sorry we had not got out a Royal Army Medical Corps officer long ago, but immediately the trouble arose he asked his colleagues to agree to the appointment of such an officer if one could bo procured, and bis colleagues at once agreed. It had been suggested that he would not see that the reports of General Henderson would be carried into effect. 11l reply to that" he wished to assure the House that no one would value General Henderson's reports more than he would, and 110 ono would be more anxious to carry out his suggestions.

To Train Soldiers. He t wished to make this suggestion to honourable members, that our duty was not t<r care for men individually, but to train-soldiers, Mr. Poole: You've got to keep thorn alive. Mr. Allen: It is our duty to keep them alivo not only in New Zealand but in the trenches at the front. If the men wore to be prepared to face th© rigours and the dangers of a campaign they riiust havo training. He hoped that honourable members would not demand, and that the country would not demand that such conditions should be established at the camps as would prevent our men from being inured to conditions such as might be met with at the front, when they would be out of their comfortable hutmonts. These men must be inured to stand hardship, and there was danger that the Government might be called upon to do too much for tbem. If the Government did that, and men were unable to stand the rigours of active service, the Government would be responsible for those men's lives, and responsible to the parents of those men for failing in their duty. The member for Christchurch East had criticised tlio Chief of tho General Staff because tho Chief of the General Staff did not attend to the medical arrangements .at tho camp. Mr. Wilford: Ono of your men tried to put it on to Colonel Purdy. Mr. Allen referred Dr. Thackor to Colonel Gibbon's ovidenco, which would show that it was not his duty to deal with the health of the c'amp except in so far as it affected the training of the mon. The supervision of all arrangements to provide for tho health of the men was the business of the Chief Medical Officer at the camp, and the Director of Medical. Services. Tho member for Chrintohurch East hud also i pfemd in deprecatory. t«msJa_Celoael

Valintdne. He (Mr. Allan) did) aot need to say one word to commend to tho House and tlie country tho very valuable work done by Colonel Valintine. Ais to the shower-baths, General Henderson had. stated that they would be ready at tho end of this week. He was sorry that they had not beeai erected earlier, but tlioro were difficulties m securing boiler material, and in addition there had been an enormous demand for labour. There was a divergence of opinion ou the question of lining the huts, but that. matter would be gone into when moro important work had been dealt with.

Health of Samoan Men. With regard to tho Samoan troops, the reports lio got from Samoa were that th© health of the troops tliero was excellent, and that the medical arrangements were excellent. If members had any complaints to make on that point' they would havo to be specific, and not general. Replying to Mr. Payne's Temarks, he said that lectures wero given regularly in camp and on the transports. Referring to Mr. Field's statement that the report disclosed that elementary rules of miliary sanitation were neglected, ho read sections of the report to show that sanitation had been .attended to. tie had already told tho Houso that something would be done this session to provide for the dependents of those who lost their lives at Trentham. ,The War Pensions Act did not. include them, but he proposed to bring an amendment down to tho Defence Act to apply to those who had been at Trentham, and those who went into tho Territorial camps. Ho could, not for the moment say what the provision would be.

Did Dr. Thackor Do Right? "The member for "West Coast had something to say with regard to Dr. Thacker and his criticism,'! continued Mr. Allen. "I don't want to deal at length with what passed in the early stages of Trentham, which started the inquiry, but there is one remark. I want to make, and I don't make it to Dr. Thacker particularly. I think it is fair and just to say to him that if ho, as a medical • man, diagnosed cerebrospinal meningitis before our own medical officers,, did ho' not consider, it was h'is duty to acquaint me, or his brother medical men, with the fact?" Dr. Thacker: You would not allow me to.

Mr. Alien: "If the hon. member knew, as he said he knew, that this was cerebro-spinal meningitis, does not there rest on his conscience some accusation?" If it had been known before the officials discovered the disease, he ventured to say that some .lives would not have been lost. Coming to the criticism of vlie then Director of Medical Servioes (Dr. Purdy) Mr. Allen said that he had been accused' of being too loyal to his officers. He would rather be too loyal to them than disloyal, but whatever the Teport might say, it did not answer the specific question, where the Commission was asked to say definitely whether anybody was to blame, and if so, whom? He did not say that Colonel Purdy did everything that a man could have done, but ho did say that Colonel Purdy worked very hard indeed, and probably had too much to do. ' . -

, Mr. TV'ilford: He had too much to do. over too large an area. Mr. Allen pointed out that Colonel Purdy's remarks indicated that tho epi. demic was brought into the camp. He thought the country owed a debt of gratitude to the- medical men who came forth in the time of need, and to the men responsible for training our troops. When the whole , story was told ho ventured to say that a good story would-be told of what New Zealand had. done". Our 4th and 6th Reinforcements went so well-, trained that they wont straight to the front! our 6th were fuly inuiieu when'they arrived in Egypt on September 9, and a« far as he knew they were at Gallipoli to-day. It was to the credit of the training staff and everyone else that those reinforcements should have been sent straight to the front. . .Dr. Thaoker contended that he had been misrepresented when the Minister said' that he knew cerebro-spinal meningitis existed. That was absolutely for nobody could know that unless it was officially found by. bacteriologists. Mr. Allen: The hon. gentleman, in my presence, and in the presence of hon. members, after .the disease was diagnosed as cerebro-spinal meningitis, said that he had himself diagnosed it as that several days previously. The motion to receive tho report was then, adopted. ,