LIQUOR AT THE CAMP

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2405, 10 March 1915, Page 6

LIQUOR AT THE CAMP

A WET CANTEEN?

MODERATE LEAGUE PROPOSAL

MINISTER HAS AN OPEN MIND

The desirability of establishing a wet canteen at Trentham Camp was urged by a deputation from the Moderate League, which waited upon the Hon. J. Allen. Minister of Defence, yesterday afternoon,

Mr. A. S. Menteath was the only speaker on behalf of the deputation. "We desire to say at once," he said, "that we fully recognise that it is entirely a matter of military disoipline, for the military experts to decide,.whether a wet canteen in the camp ■ at Trentham would conduce or. not to the end which we all have in view—namely, that our men should reach the fiehtingline in the pink .of condition. Wo realise that the military authorities are in the best position to judge, and it is not in any way our. intention to interfere or to attempt to force our views upon them. From various rumours which have reached us f however, we have gathered—and this is the reason of our visit to you—that the military authorities are favourable to the establishment (under suitable ;regulations) of a wet canteen in the camp as being for the decided benefit of. our soldiers-; but that this intention is sought, to be blocked by the political action of a certain section of extremists on Tne liquur question, who regard all indulgence in alcoholic drinks as the absorption of poison, no matter in what quantities or under what restrictions it majA be .consumed. We have, therefore, felt it to be our duty to place our views before you because we are aware that whenever anything connected with liquor comes up for consideration it is immediately made the subject of a noisy demonstration by the extremists. One Cause of Excess. "The reasons which prompt us to look with favour on the establishment of tho canteon question may be very briefly put. We hold that the snu-st way to secure temperance is to accustom the_ individual to meet .the objoct over which control is to be exercised Wider the normal conditions of everyday life. The complete suppression of natural or, acquired appetites for l:niited periods in almost all caßos- will tend, to bring about excess at the time of release. W« hold this to be largely the cause of the excesses indulged in by members of the Force when on leave in the city, in those limited • instances when their behaviour has called for unfavourable oomment. The moderate in-' dulgence in alcohol being, in praotice, unavoidable where large bodies of men are concerned, we think, subject of course to the. opinion of the' military experts, that the cause of true temperance would bo advanced and not impeded by the normal supply of wholesome liquor in the camp, at proper times, and under due regulation, thus minimising to a great extent any. temptation to illicit or exoessive indulgence. It would, we hold, be far better for the morals and health of the men that the consumption of liquor should be under the open supervision and control of the military authorities and officers than, made a matter of concealment and subterfuge. It .has also been' suggested that the conditions of training from the first should as nearly as possible approximate to the conditions to be met with abroad, and in this respect it appears from information at public disposal that the military authorities recognise the moderate use of alcohol, and have arranged a supply of rum to the men in the trenches. We have also been given to understand that the Commander-in-Chief of the Australasian Forces in Egypt has authorised the establishment of wet canteens strictly in the best interests of the men, and that our first contingent are now enjoying the privilege denied them while in New Zealand and on the voyage. We would also remind you that tho passing of the days brings us closer to the cold months •of winter, and that this additional comfort established at the camp would be of value as Tendering camp life' more livable. Most 'of those volunteering are, we. presume, men with formed habits, and those habits should in our opinion receive consideration as a matter of diet. . i Should Not Be Treated as Children. "Finally we venture to suggest that no unnecessary hardships or disabilities should be placed upon those who are prepared to face all necessary hardships, and even death itself, in defence of the Empire.' Tsat' taese men whom 'we entrust with the most serious employment within our power should hot be treated as children, devoid of self-oontrol, but as men; and entrusted with' that which is the'common right of citizenship. Not this alone, but they should be encouraged by that very trust to safeguard their honour when beyond'the 'oontrol of their officers, as so often happens at present when on leave, and-will under other circumstances happen when on active service. We may point out in conclusion that the greatest war of the centuries is'now in progress, and that it was not by abstainers from alcohol that the battles of Trafalgar, Waterloo; or indeed any other victory of the Western races were won."

Mr; J. H. Owen jokingly reminded the Minister that' the members of the House of Representatives,'who, so far as he knew, were not exposed to any hardships, always granted to themselves the use of a wet canteen.

MINISTER IN REPLY MEN AS THEY ARE. The Hon. J. Allen, replying, said he was very glad indeed to 'hear what the deputation had to say about the very difficult problem. "I quite agree with your view," he said, "that the best thing we can do for these men going away to fight our battles is to make them strong enough to resist temptation when they meet it—when they are in the very middle of the very worst form of temptation. I should be only too glad to know that anything we can do m "New Zealand would make them strong. There are men in tho camp who are strong enough to resist temptation, and there are men as weak as you can find, I am sorry to say. There is one initial difficulty in the way of what you ask, and that, is our legislation. Our legislation prevents us from having a wet canteen at any oamp in New Zealand. Section 93 of the Defence Aot provides: "The canteen at any encampment shall be under the control and sole direction of-the officer in command of the encampment, and no intoxicating liquor shall be sold oi supplied at any such canteen to any person." If, therefore, I were to agree with your argument that a wet canteen is advisable in the camp, there is' legislation which prevents me from putting it there. However, I don't wish. to shelter myself behind the legislation, so far as my own opinion is concerned. I supported that legislation, and I supported it because of my experience of the ordinary camps that took place in the old volunteering days. I. speak as a volunteer officer of twenty years' experience, and I say without hesitation that the exclusion of liquor from volunteer camps was a very great benefit indeed. And I speak as a moderate, for I am not a teetotaller. ' But I also speak as an officer who has been in charge of men. It is all very well to speak of men's strength of character, and trusting to their manliness and honour and so so. I should be only too jjJid tj kjww that ware stream

enough' to resist temptation, but you have to take men as they are. Close Hotels to Soldiers? "That is one difficulty—that the legislation prevents mo from establishing a canteen. But I have had under very serious consideration the question of getting round this legislation, if it were possible to do it, ana if it were in the interests of the men to do it. For the time being, 1 don't see my way to do anything to evade this legislation, and I hope that what haß taken place may lead these men to see that they must exercise some control over themselves. We are doing all we can in camp to impress upon them the necessity for efficiency at all times. Might I ask you whether, supposing I were able to establish a wet canteen at tho camp, you are in favour of shutting the publicbouses in Wellington to • these men!' Can you give me an answer to that question, because unless we can shut the publiohouse door to men in Wellington— and I don't want to take that extreme step—l fail to see how the wet canteen is going to do any good. l ! he trouble is not at the camp now. The trouble is in Wellington, where private individuals, in a spirit of good nature, ask men in to . have a drink, perhaps more than one. I hope you will do what you can. to induce the public not to, because wrong is done by this mistaken kindness, fi you oan do anything to > stop that I snail be very grateful to you. ... The Cantean In Egypt. "I know that we have established a wet canteen in Egypt. General ,Godley has done this although he was in favour of this legislation, because in Egypt anyone can soil liquor—there are no licenses—and the liquor supplied to our men was the most vile stuff. It was in order to protect our men against this stuff that the wet canteen was established, and I think under the circumstances it was justified. Whether a wet canteen is justified in Now Zealand is a very difficult question to answer. I am not prepared to say to-day that it would be justifiable. I have an open mind about it. I should be glad to learn any way by which we may. induce these men to, control their own habits, and to induce them not to take too much when they come to town. "I have never had any official communication about rum being served out to the troops at the front. Nor do I know whether the statement about the Russians is I do know that I have read withinterest what the Russian Government has done, and, if the information in the newspapers is correct, i revolution has occurred there, and one result of it is that the Russian soldier has become very much more efficient than he was.

, Mr. Owen: Think of the awful stuff he was allowed to consume I Vodka! Mr. Allen: Apparently now he can't consume anything. - This spirit, whatever it ; was, has been taken away from him. and apparently he is much more efficient than lie was before. I■■ can't get away from that fact, and I am not _ prepared to -say that the only efficient soldier is the man who can get his glass of beer. Therefore, I am not prepared' to say that a wet canteen is advisable at Trentliam. However, as I have said, I ha.ve an open mind on the question, and if the evils that were apparent when the Third Contingent were here were to occur again, I should have to consider ways of ' getting round the law, and establishing a wet' canteen. I should have to consider it niy duty to have the men prevented from obtaining liquor in town. "Coddling Mannlklns. 1 " Mr. Menteath replied to Mr. Allen's inquiry about closing the hotels to soldiers'if-a wot canteen were set up at,; camp, c; On'.that.; question he had, he said, had no opportunity of consulting his executive. "But/' he said, "I approach it from this point of view —that we have no-right,-because a man offers his 'ife .and possibly his fortune ■to the country, to'put him under any regulations to which other citizens in the country are not supposed to submit. It necessarily follows that if a number of young fellows come away from their homes to camp,' some of them are inclined.for a short time to go on the spree—to put it in colloquial language. They very soon get over that.

Mr. 'Allen: Some don't get over it.Some lose their lives. Wo have lost one life already. ,

Mr. Monte a th: What is one life among so many thousands P There are many ways of safeguarding life, but the one adopted in this case is that of reducing the moral character of the mass. We say that you should make men and not coddle" mannikins, and now you are coddling mannikins. For my part, I think that the' sooner a mannikin'passes out the. better. . .. . Mr. Menteath ' discussed the question of whether the law prohibited the establishment of a canteen at the camp. He [ urged that the prohibition in the Acß was meant to apply to territorial training camps of brief duration, and not to permanent camps for tho training of men to go abroad to fight. He sugr gested that the law might not apply to the present camp at Trentham. ' Mr. W. Perry, a member of the deputation, asked whether the camp was under the Defence Act of 1909, or the Imperial Army Regulations. Mr. Allen replied that it was under the Defence Act, , PRESBYTERY VIEWS, At a meeting -of jkhe .Wellington Presbytery yesterday afternoon ' the question of the establishment of a wet canteen at the 'Trentham Gamp was discussed at considerable length. On the motion of Rev. Dr. Gibb, seconded by Rev. Dr. Elliott,' it was decided to appoint a. committee and empower it to frame a suitable resolution to forward to the Minister of Defence; also to consider generally how temperance may be promoted among the troops, and to arrange if possible *to take the initiative in _ providing some suitable place ii Wellington where the men may rest on Saturday evenings, and where entertainments may be. arranged for them.