PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2288, 23 October 1914, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

» .. LEGISLATURE AMENDMENT BILL. SEAMEN'S VOTES.,

PROPOSAL OF SEATS FOR WOMEN. Tho Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Road Boards Amendment Bill and the Municipal Corporations Amendment Bill were and read a first time. The Workers' Dwellings Amendment Bill was read a first time. NATIONAL PROVIDENT FUND. The Hon. H. D. BELL moved the third reading of the National Provident Fund Amendment Bill,- and briefly ex-, plained the measure. Mr. 801 l said that it was essential that the Council should know that the provisions of the Bill had no relation to the "proposals for the subvention of Friendly Societies. It had no relation to that matter. When he was told that Friendly Societies would have nothing to do with the Bill, or the National Provident Fund, he thought a mistake was made in supposing it had regard to subvention. There had been no failure on the part of the Government to deal. energetically with the matter. Some witnesses of large societies had expressed their opinion against Government subvention.' It had been somewhere supposed that the Government shirked the matter in 1913. The Joint Friendly Societies' Committee tfyon reported on.tho evidence they took, and.copies were sent round tp all societies for consideration during the recess. To this day the Government had never received.a reply from those. bodies. He said that this session, though there had been no reply, they would have legislated and insisted upon some subvention, but there intervened a, time when it would have been hopeless to get the support of Parliament oh a proposal of the kind. They had not got money now. The Government had done all in its power to perform a public duty which rested upon any men who had a 6ense of the responsibility for such contributors. The Hon. J. T. PAUL contended that it was possible for an : impecunious local, body to get rid of their' responsibilities and get. back & sum of money by dismissing their employees. The Hon. 0. SAMUEL said that he believed "that the National' Provident Fund had been inaugurated toj induce .people to make provision for themselves in their old age. The Bill was-to offer an inducement not hitherto offered, and. enable employers to assist the employees. He thought the Bill would very greatly increase the benefits of the Bill of 1910. •; The debate was adjourned at' this Etage. ' ;.' ■'.'■',. '.;■■■'.•-'• EDUCATION RESERVES.. The Education Reserves Amendment : Bill was considered in Committee, and progress was reported. l Leave was grant-. Ed to again consider it in Committee. . BILLS PASSED. The Road Boards ■ Amendment Bill, conferring upon Road Boards powers in respect of sanitary drainage, was read a second time! The Municipal ■ Corporations Amendment Bill was also read a second .time. It provides that after, a-report., of. a commission, the Governor may' direct: that^a poll.be taken, on- the. question of the inclusion or, exclusion., of an area from, a' borough.' ."■' ' '.. "■■'■ ■-.'\~,. Both Bills were reported from Committee without amendment, read a third time, and passed. ~; : The Council rose at 4.40 p.m. 'THE HOUSE The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The Hon. W. ERASER moved that the amendments made in the Local Railways Bill be agreed to. The. amendments were agreed to after a long debato. .: ' LEGISLATURE AMENDMENT BILL. SEAMEN'S VOTES... The Legislature Amendment Bill (the Hon. F. M. B. Fisher) was committed:: Mr. Fisher said that it had been deemed necessary since the introduction of the Bill to make certain alterations in it. change made in: the Bill was in those clauses dealing with seamen's votes. It was now intended to do away with the proposal to compel seamen who had no residence to vote in the electorate in which the'office of the Customs Office'was situated. It was considered that this would have the effect of concentrating seamen's . votes, instead of dispersing them. The proposal was that,seamen must vote in the port in which they sign articles, but when they enrolled they would be allowed to choose which of the electorates contiguous to the port wherein to use the vote. In Wellington a seaman could 'vote in any of tho six electorates adjoining Wellington. Mr. Wilford: What if he signs articles in Australia. Mr. Fisher: Then he doeßn't vote in New .Zealand. Sir Joseph Ward: Why are you making the change? Mr. Fisher: Because the' 6eamen's votes are being used and being concentrated ■ in particular' districts for improper purposes. Sir Joseph Ward thought that the amendments suggested would have the effect of disfranchising a large number of 6eamen. It was to try and prevent the seamen voting against those men who were opposed to their interests. As long as the seaman exercised his vote in New Zealand, why should not ho exerciso it in any part? The proposal would prevent a man exercising his vote in the district in which he wanted the vote. Who asked for it? '■ Mr. Bradnov: I asked for it for one. Mr. T. M.; Wilford said he had been acquainted' with the fact that there were men in tho coasting trado who had signed articles in Australia.; Mr. Fisher: The only men who would he upon the coastal trade would ,bo in the Huddart-Parker aud Union Companies' boats. _ What right has a man who signed on in Australia to come here and vote? The seamen under the Bill enjoyed advantages which no other elector enjoyed. ; Mr. J. H. Bradney said that he wanted to see that the seamen had every assistance to vote, but he did object to seamen coming from other countries and voting, after arriving perhaps on the eve of the election. An Amendment. Sir Joseph Ward said that he was not satisfied with the proposals of tho Bill, and he intended to take a direct vote on it. He would move as an amendment to the short title to make it read "an. Act to deprive the seamen, of , Nov/ Zealand from exorcising their votes with the same freedom that existed since the passing of the Act in 1893." Of course, Sir Joseph Ward was referring to the title of tho Bill, and not the short title, which is "Legislature Amendment Act, 1914." Tho Chairman drow his attention to ' this, informing him that the titlo was not before the Committee, being the last part of the Bill to be considered. What the Committee were considering was Clause 1, sotting forth tho short »itle. Sir Joseph Ward then moved to

amend'the first clause to read: "This Act,36 intended to deprive the seamen of New Zealand from exercising their votes with, the same freedom that has existed since the. passing of the Act in 1893." He argued that an injustice was being dono/ and asked the Prime Minister what he thought of it. Was it a fair thing? Mr. Massey: It is a fair thing to place seamen in the same position as every other elector. . The Hon. F. M. B. Fisher: "So long as tho .Leader of the Opposition repeats this pathotic statement about depriving seamen of their 'votes, 60 long will it bo necessary for me 'to state tho reasons for the Bill. The Bill is introduced to givo seamon tho same rights as overy other elector, but not any nioro rights. It is to prevent tho 6eamen of this country from improperly using their privileges by. grouping their votes together and U6ing them in one electorate. This Bill is not depriving any seaman of a vote, but it does compel a seaman without, a settled residence to register his vote in the port where he signs his' articles. That is the sum total of. the Bill." Ho added that even under the Bi'l seamen would have rights possessed dry no other elector, the right to select in any port in which electorate contiguous to hi 6 home port he would vote. No such privilege was accorded to other itinerant workers, such as shearers;

The Hon. J. A. Millar said that privileges wero granted to sailors because of the nomadic character of their calling, but the privilege had been, abused. It was intended that- the privilege should be used by New Zealand seamen only, but it had bqen exercised by ocean trade sailors, who-had never lived a day in New Zealand in their lives. He thought the Bill' was a fair ono. Ho drew attention to the fact, however, that some seamen might be disfranchised by reason' of tho fact that they were on ships on which no articles were sver signed.. • Mr. Fisher: You mean under, twentyfive tons: . Mr. Millar:.Yes. Mr. Fisher: They can use absent voters' permits. They are using them now. ' ■ - The amendment was defeated by 36 votes to 28. , -The short title was passed at 8.45 p.m. "State of the Rolls. Sir Joseph Ward asked the Minister to put in a general provision to ensure that all tho people were enrolled. Thousands of people were being left off the roll. He had received numerous letters. A member: Why don't they get on to the roll, instead of writing to you? (Laughter.) Sir. Joseph Ward said that'many people were off the rolls, and. did not know it. Case after case had been brought under his notice where names had been removed. They should be given facilities to vote, with due safeguards, whethor they ; were'on the rolls or not.; Otherwise',' as the result of the new system, thousands 1 would be disfranchised. He suggested they'should £0 back to-the old system in force before they had the second ballot, and that people should be allowed to get on tho 'rolls-twenty-one days before-the election, and not twenty-eight days. Thau would allow them a week longer in which to enrol. •' <

Mr. H. G. Ell said the present system was not working out well, and tho best' system'was\when the Government put on special officers to enrol. Tho Hon. F; M. B. Fisher pointed out that this year the: rolls were purged, and the work of enrolling must have been well carried out, because of the comparatively few complaints received. If those people'who took,the trouble-to write'to members.,would,.write.to ..the Registrar, they, would soon. find their names on the drolls. . The .Leader of tho Opposition had to. remember .that theclause they were administering was his own-clause, and they were.trying to get the rolls clean. Some of the rolls in Now Zealand had more names on the main rolls now than there were there last election. It should be remembered that the Department was up against two difficulties:' the comparative apathy of the people, owing to the war, and the fact that they could not get people ,to get on the rolls. From now on the Licensing Party, the NoLicense Party, the Bible-in-Schools League, the Government and the Opposition parties would he canvassing the districts,,, and any person not .oil the rolls before the elections would, ho. believed, have purposely'evaded getting there. . j '.' Dr. A. K. Newman said that it was impossible'to be sure that absolutely all the voters were on the roll unless the Minister, was prepared to spend an enormous amount of money. Clause 14, dealing with persons struck off the Toll, and entitled to vote, was amended to cover electors who voted at the preceding election in the district, and whose name did not appear on the roil.- ...■•• ~;■'.„ Mr. Fisher's amendment, which will have the effect 1 of compelling seamen who have no settled residence to vote iii some electorate adjacent to the port, at which they signed articles, was debated at. length. The new clause, it should-be explained, does not affect the rights of those seamen who have homes in New Zealand, for they will still have the right to r vote, as other electors in those districts in which they reside. The new clause was added to the Bill. Proposal to Admit Women. Mr.. J. M'Combs moved the inclusion of a new clause providing for the election of.lady members to the Houso of Representatives. ' ' . - The Prime Minister said that he had no objection to ladies finding their way into the placid atmosphere of the Legislative Council,, but he did not favour their having the right to enter the House of.Representatives.--.Mr. L. M. Isitt twitted the _ Prime Minister with inconsistency in his attitude on the question. It happened that Mr. Isitt made several lapses in his choice of words, which left his remarks capable of double entendre, and several members of the House laughed loudly, and repeatedly. ' Mr. Massey said that the member for Christchurch North had destroyed his own arguments by making a speech which women would have fled from the House to avoid hearing. He said that he had never heard women as a body, or representative women, asking for the right to become members of the House of Representatives. .; Mr.. Isitt: Then it is quite evident that you don't know anything about women. ' • 4 ' Mr. Massey: I don't profess to know as much about women as_ tho honourable gentleman. I am quite certain of this, that' right-thinking women are op- ' posed to anything of tho sort. Fancy a woman having to sit up, as we are compelled to 'sit up, until 5 o|clock in tho morning in order to got a little business dono. Or fancy them in a stonewall such as we have had, going home with the. milk in \ho morning. They don't do that in the Legislative Council. They have more sonse there.

Almost a Scene. Mr. J; A. Hanuii was called upon as next speaker, and ho had just begun to speak when there occurred a scene which had in it elements of seriousness. Mr. Isitt walked over -to the Prime Minister's desk, and, his face whito as if with anger, made some remark of which only these words wero audible in tho Press Gallery: "Dirty insinuation you made against mo." Mr. Massey, rising on tho instant, called on tho Chairman and said: "I call your attention to tho manner and'tho words of tho member for Christchurch North."

Mr. Malcolm: The words were, of course, addressed to tho hohourablo gentleman privately, and I did not'hear them.

Mr. Isitt had in the meantimo moved on to an adjoining bonoh. Mr. Massey: I -wish to 6ay this, that I am not going to allow any man to talk to ma like that.

Mr. Malcolm and honourable members: Order! Order!

Mr. Isitt: I simply asked the Prime Minister what he meant by his remark about me just now. I don't know whether in his own evil mind ho" inferred from my words something I didn't mean.

Mr. Malcolm: Order! Order! The member for Invbrcargill has the floor at present. • Aii honourable member: Jokos are becoming serious. t Mr. Hanan and two other members spoke without reference to the incident, but Mr. P. C. Webb was not so cautious. He said that he regretted the expression, used by the Prime Minister to the member for Obristchurch North.

Mr. Malcolm: The honourable member must not continue. .Ho is a construction on words of the Prime Minister that 1 can't allow him to take,

Mr. Massey: just a word before this goes any further; Mr. Malcolm. I would like to say that in anything I said 1 intended to convey no reflection on tho' member for Christchurch North. I think he made a very foolish speech, and a very unwise speech, but I meant nothing otherwise. At least one of Mr. Isitt's colleagues, sitting near him, was heard to say more than once: "Go on, Isitt, apologise!" but Mr. Isitt did not apologise. ■, The amendment was defeated by 29 votes to 27. Lost by Two Votes. Following-was the division list: For: 27. Against: 29. Anderson Allen Buddo R. F. Bollard Buxton Bradney Carroll Buchanan Coatcs Campbell Colvin Dickson Craigie ■ . . Fisher Davey lj'rasur ,' Ell Glover Forboj Guthrie Hanan Harris Hindmarsh , ' , „ HerdmanIsitt Herries M'Callum Hino M'Combs Hunter Mac Donald ' Lee A. K. Newman Mander Payne Massoy Poland Nosworthy Robortson Okoy Scddon Tearco Sidey s Pomaro Sykes , R. H. Rhode* Veitch T. W. Rhodes Ward ■■ Scott Webb F. H. Smith Witty Statham - G. M. Thomson Wilkinson Pairs:'. For the Amendment.—Ngata, M'Ken«e,R. W. Smith. Against.—Wilson, J. Bollard, E. Newman. ..... ■ The Bill was reported with amendments. The Third Reading. Sir Joseph Ward protested very strenuously against, the third reading of'the Bill being taken, but the Prime Minister was obdurate, and_ Mr.'Fisher moved tho third reading without comment. The Bill was Tead a third time on the voices, and the House rose at 2.15 | a.m. ,