CANTEENS ON TRANSPORTS

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2268, 30 September 1914, Page 6

CANTEENS ON TRANSPORTS

PRICES CHARGED NOT EXORBITANT

NO EXPLOITATION OF MEN

THE GOVERNMENT MAY TAKE CONTROL.

A long discussion on an alleged canteen scandal was raised in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon by a question addressed by Mr. G. R. Sykes to the Hon. J. Allen, the Defence Minister. ' Mr. Sykos asked whether tho statements that had been made as .to excessive charges were correct, and, if so, whether the Government would take steps to establish canteens c -i«i which goods could be supplied at cost prices.

Mr. Alloli said that he had ordered an inquiry" into the complaints, and within the last hour he had received a number of reports.' In explaining the arrangements made in regard to the canteens, he said that in the first place the Defence Department had asked the shipowners to set , up canteens, but they had declined. The shipmasters were then asked to piovide the canteens, but they also refused, on the ground of not having tho necessary capital. An airangemont was then made between the shipowners and tho merchants to run the canteens. A list of prices which purported to bo the retail rates' prevailing in Wellington had been submitted to tho Defence Department. The Department agreed to the ordinary retail prices being charged. Ho had examined the prices, and so far as he was able to judge,- they were in the maiii the retail prices which were being charged in Wellington when the arrangement was made. He had obtained a report from each ship giving instances of allegations of unduly, high prices.

. Some Prices Charged. It.was alleged, for instance, that the charges on, one ship of a shilling per bottle for' aerated waters and eight shillings a poijnd for tobacco wore too high. It was also complained that the prices of biscuits and cordials wero too high. Mr. Allen said that the bottles of aerated waters for which a , charge of a shilling was. being made were quart bottles. A glass of lemonade could be obtained on the ships for.threepence a glass. As to ,the tobacco, somo of it was duty free, and some was not. The charge for two-ounce tins was a shilling, which was the ordinary , retail price. Some of the merchants, it was stated, had not been able to get. the tobacco out of bond, and had to take it out of stock.

A member:-Did they not get a drawback? : • -.-■•■

Mr. Allen: Not so far as I know. Mr. Myers (Auckland East): They could have done so had they applied. Mr. Hanan (Invereargill) ? Are tho charges the same on-ajl-the ships?.

Mr. Allen: I think so. except perhaps on the Limerick. Ihat ship got her stores in Australia, and has been able to sell them a little cheaper. ,

Some Statements Corrected. -■ Mr. Allen read extracts from a report furnished to him on the subject by tho General Officer Commanding. Complaints wero made, General Godley remarked, that tho prices charged for aerated waters were too high. But, on the other hand, the loss by breakage of bottles, and the loss of empty bottles, would probably be so lieavy that no profit would be made in the canteens by the sale of these waters. The. imputation that the men were being exploited was very strongly resented. It was not true, as had. been stated, that any man had been charged twopence for. a penny stamp/ Nobody had been charged Is. 6d. for a two-ounce tin of tobacco; and nobody had been charged 3d. for, a. packet of Epsom salts, for these .were supplied freo of charge by the medical officers. It was not true ■that 3001b: of honey presented for the use of'■the men had been left behind. Aβ a matter of fact,, it had for economic reasons been given to the' men in the camps. All tno gifts of provisions that ,liad been sent .forward. for the use of the men were "now on the ships-, and would bo supplied to tlie men on the voyage. It was not true that any of the gifts were finding their way into the canteens, and from there sold to tlie men. The officer in charge of the ship had very- wide discretionary powers, and if it should' be necessary in the interests of: the men .for him to do so, he would not hesitate to use those powers. In roply to the suggestion that the Defenco authorities should run the canteens, General' Godley pointed out that the officers and men would be fully occupied on board the ship, and it would Uβ very unfair k>-require them to do grocery shop work as well

Government will Devise a Scheme. As honourable members, knew, said Mr. Allen, those canteen arrangements wero made at a time when the authorities had no time to' think much about details. The delay in departure allowed tho Government more time, and ho hoped to be able to devise: a scheme for the control of all Defence canteens, whether at sea or on shore. With respect to five of the ships, the firm of Levin and Co., which had supplied the foods for the canteens, on those ships, ad agreed to hand over to. the Government all goods in tho canteens at invoice price. Those who had supplied tho goods for the other five nhips had not yet agreed to do this. Ho would like if possible to deal with the matter as a whole, and if arrangements could be made, he thought the Government might take tlio canteens over and run' them. Honourable members must understand, and the- public must understand, that the firms running the canteens did not, come forward and offer to run them. They were asked to do it. He thought, it was very unfair to say that the men, were being exploited. They were charging the men at ordinary retail prices. On some of the tobacco, which had been taken out of bond, and which had therefore not paid duty, the profit would be considerable, but on the other hand the cost of running the canteens would be very heavy. .

Mr. Parata: I am told that they are charging sixponco exchange on a pound note.

Mr. Allen said 'ho had not heard' of this, but ho was almost sure it was incoitrect. If notes were presented at fioa probably excliarigo would be demanded. The Government were not sending gold on the ships, but the men would be paid in coupons which would b<-> convertible into gold in London. Ho intended to try to put these canteens on a satisfactory footing, and no effort would bo spared io prevent injustice being done to the men. There Should be no Profit. Sir Joseph Ward said that if t'ho ships had gone to sea, whatever the trouble was, it would have placed great disability on the men. From the start the whole of the canteen work should have been undertaken by t'ho Government, and there should have been no profit made out of it. The idea of charging the retail prices of Wellington t;> a body of good men of any kind was not in any sense a iisinl procedure; n. largo body of people would in the ordinary courso get' goods at less than tlip. usual rate. In the case of tobacco tlie moil should have got it at the lower ratn made possible hv tho absence of duly. It had been stated that the men of the Snmonn Expedition oould not obtain tho freo tobacco and the freo pipes donated for them,.

If that-was true, thero had been a serious mistake by somo one, and the Government ought to take steps to ecu that tho men got everything that was intended for them.

No Intention to Exploit. The Prime Minister (the Right Hon. W. F. -Massey) said that he wished to make it clear that there was never any intention on the part of tho Government to take a single farthing of profit-from the troops. The arrangement entered into was made for the convenience of tho men themselves. It was a good thing, however, that this discussion had taken place, because there had been a good deal of exaggeration. He had, for instance, read a statement to the effect that honey and apples donated to the troops had been returned to the donors because the articles might come intc- competition with the contents of the canteens. He had been glad to. hear the statement made that afternoon that all articles

donated for the troops had been taken on board, and would,'in due course, be given to the men. With regard to the subject of profit-making, the Prime Minister said that lie thoroughly agreed that no profit should be made out of tho troops, and he , would be glad if all -the contractors, were willing to forgo their arrangements, and allow the Defence Department to nui the whole of the canteens. '. . '

Drastic Action If Needed. It seemed, continued the Minister, that when the order went out that cigarettes-were,to be barred, some of the contractors realised that a portion of their profit would be'gone, but the reason for barring cigarettes was that they were'regarded as highly dangerous, and no one could object to that order when it -was recognised that there was a large number of lives at stake; in th circumstances the course'taken -was the proper one. The Government were not going to see these men exploited, and, spea-king as head of tho Government, he would say that they would be willing to take drastic action te obtain control of all the canteens-if that courso became necessary. If the men ivere able to run their own. canteens, ho would favour {l s'upplying them with tobacco duty; free. , ■ Now that thero was time to consider tho position, the right thing should bo done. He knew where the heart of the Defenco Minister was in this matter, but it must not be lost sight of that before the troops embarked the Minister had been exceptionally hard worked. However, he felt sure that the Minister, now that there was time, would see the matter .put right, and that in his efforts he would be backed up by his colleagues. (Hear, hear.) -. . / ,

Charges of Exploitation. Mr. Witty :(Riccarton) said tho men should not be exploited, and he was glad to hear that the State would supply duty -free the tobacco required by the men. There should.be a list of gifts on the ships. On former occasions gifts had not reached the men.

Mr. Allen: That, was: in connection with South Africa. We are doing better .than that. .

Mr. Witty asked who was receiving the tender money for the- canteen; £1500 had been given for the right to run the canteens. Mr. Allen had! said so himself . ' . :

Mr. Allen gave this statement an emphatic denial. He had never said anything of the kind.

Mr. Witty: Well, it was in tho papers. Mr. Allen: Very likely. Probably in the ; 'New Zealand Times." (Laughter.) Mr. H. G. Ell said he was glad to hear one firrii had agreed to forgo' • its contract. Hβ was surprised that, another firm had shown hesitation in doing so. He went on to state that 9d. per lb. was the chargo for ordinary biscuits. Mr. Allen said the hon. member should not make such incorrect statements, because they got abroad, and were published. He read from the list af prices—"Biscuits, 21b. bag. for sispence." , ' . , .' . •

Mr. Ell said he was glad to hear that the suggestions made: from both sides of. the House were to bo given effect to by" tho Government.

Mr. J. A>. Banan' (Invereargill) .objected to profits being made out of the men by these contractors. ■

Mr. Glover (Auckland Central) said it was unfair to level all these charges at tho Minister of Dcfonce.- He thought however, that in some cases the men were being exploited.

Mr. J. Payne (Grey Lynn) was pleased to see the Government was going to do the right thing! '■■'."

Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) suggested that a commission should bo sot up to, make a searching inquiry. He' had seen sprouting onions being put on board, and they knew that some of tho boots were not of pood quality.

Mr. J. Robertson (Otaki) said that chocolates given for the men - at the Awapuni' camp never got any further than the officers' mess.

What Happened In South Africa, The Hon. Jas. Allen, in reply, said there was no doubt that some of the prices wore open ■■' to criticism, but the Government .would do everything possible to see that the men'were hot ex- , ploited. The Department had' nothing to guide them, but he (Mr. Allen), would put , on record a report about ships' panteens that would be useful for all time. He was, at all events, doing much better than, had been, .done in the case of the South African contingents. In those ships there were no canteens provided at all, but the. ships' bars were open all the time, and the full, prices wore charged for mineral waters, tobacco, etc. Sixpence a glass was charged for lemonade. Sir Joseph Ward: Who makes that statement r

Mr. Allen: The Quartermaster-Gen-eral makes it. I have taken pains to do .differently from that, and -to see that spirituous liquor shall not.be dealt out to our men, so that we are protecting the men themselves, we are ■ protecting their parents, and we aro protecting this country. (Hear, hear.} In ' the South African case tho ships bars were open for the sale of liquor at the ordinary prices, and 6d. a glass was charged for mineral waters. In the present troopships a glass of lemonade could be procured for 3d. In the other case the men had to bargain with tho stewards for foodstuffs at exorbitant prices. In regard to presents for the men in' South Africa, 'tho gifts hardly ever reached the. men, in one instance, because the organisation was not good enough. He (Mr. Allen) was making out lists of the things that would be useful to the men at the front, and the Government would take caro that tho gifts got there. An officer would be appointed in London to see to that. It was absurd to talk about a favoured few. He hoped to make a complote statement on the subject later which would be entirely satisfactory. Tho job was a £40,000 one, and beyond the moans of any but a few big firms in New Zealand. In any case, it was not right to suppose that the men were not self-reliant enough to defend themselves against extortion. Of course, ho recognised what was going on, but ho expected these party, attacks. He knew that this business had been talked over by the Opposition Party at meetings. Mr. Massey: And it is a very mean thing to uso our troopers for party purposes. Mr. Allen: I am not going to -use these men, who are going out to fight our battles, to help mo to fight my party battles. .

(By Telegraph—Press Association.) Invereargill, September 29.. To-day £300 was cabled from Southliind to the High Commissioner in London for ihn relief of distress in Belgium. It is'understood that this is tho first amount sent away from tho Dominion for this purpose, further sums will be uiblod later.