THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2258, 18 September 1914, Page 6

THE HOUSE

The House met at 2.30 p.m. Two days' leave of absence was granted to Mr. W. D. S. Macdonald, and six days' leave to Mr. J. V. Brown. . CUSTOMS BILL. The Customs Amendment Bill (the Hon. F. M. B. Fisher)'was'committed, reported without amendment, and read a third time without dobato. THE ESTIMATES. PAY OF. SCHOOL TEACHERS. The House then went into''Committee to resume consideration of tho Estimates. The Education Class, for which the total vote asked was £1,227,522, was proceeded with. Replying to a question by Mr. G. \f. Russell (Avon), The Hon. J. Allen (Minister of Education) said that he hoped that ihe Education Bill would be through tho Committee within the next ten days, and he added that be then intended to ask the House to pass it. He did not know, however, that it could be put into operation for a year or so. Ho most sincerely hoped that they would be able to increase the scale of • salaries. Many bodies of teachers had passed resolutions expressing willingness to forgo their increases while the war crisis continued. . Mr. Russell suggested that increases should be made in certain classes, so that where there were cases of real need there would be power to deal witli them.

Tho Minister said that he would bo pleased to consider the suggestion. Mr. J. A. Hanan (Invercargill) asked if the Inspector-General of Schools (Mr. G.: Hogben) was retiring on superannuation at the end of this year, and, if so, what steps the Government proposed taking to replace him—whether there would bo promotion for the present staff, or whether applications would bo called for a man to fill the position. Mr. Hanan asked, also, if the advertisements would be< confined to New Zealand. v Retiring Officers. The Minister replied that he was sorry to say that Mr. Hogben's' services to the State would before long cease. Mr. Hogben had, in the Minister's opinion, done very valuable work for the country. As to a successor, the matter had not been considered by Cabinet yet, and he could not, there- ' fore, make any definite statement on the subject just at present. Ho hoped they would be able to secure a successor in New Zealand. Mr. G. Witty (Riccarton): Any idea' of sending Home for one? The Minister: Well, I must consult my colleagues, so I cannot say at the present moment. The Minister said that Sir : Edward Gibbes, also, was retiring shortly, but it would be arranged that both officers would not retire at the same time. The Minister was asked several questions regarding the pay of teachers in the lower grades, and in the course of his reply he stated that some little improvement in the pay of probationers was made last year, and something -was being done for the pupil teacher, this year. It must be remembered regarding these young teachers that the State was training them for their work. Auckland University Site. Mt. V. H. Reed (Bay of Islands) asked if tho Government had done anything regarding the fixing of a 6ite for the Auckland University. He hoped tho site would be large enough,to bold not only the University buildings, but also the college houses, and provido sports grounds. He advocated the acquisition of the St. John's College property for the purposes of tho University. Tho Minister replied that he wa6 sorry that ho could not give a definite , answer to the question. The matter, he added, had be.en under consideration for some timo. He could not encourage the idea that tho Auckland University College would bo built on a site outsido tho city in, order that residential colleges might be erected on the land an the future. Having regard to Now Zealand conditions, under which the bulk of tho students were earning their living in tho daytime, ho could not agree to the establishment of a collcgo out of easy reach of tlio city. Viotoria College. Mr. H. Okey (Taranaki) asked whether the council of Victoria College |. (Wellington) had made an attempt to '' . eecure tho Opaku Reserve, in Tar> i. naki, as an'.endowment. | Mr. J. B. Hino (Stratford)' consid- j oretl that the voto of £2000 for Vic-'' toria. College was totally inadequate, i Ho honed that tho Minister would not ' allow the Opaku Reserve to bo taken^

as an endowment for Victoria College. Opaku was the only reserve Taranaki had as an endowment for the higher education. Mr. C. A. Wilkinson (ligmout) also protested against any attempt to take tho Opaku Reserve, for Victoria College. Taranaki, he said, had its own ideas on tho matter or' the provision of higher education for tho children in its portion of the island, and regarded this reserve as very valuable. Air. H. G. Ell (Uhristchurch. South) supported the protest of tho Taranaki members. Mr. G. J. Anderson (Mataura) said that the unendowed schools should be placed on a better financial footing than they were at present. The Minister said that £2000 was not the only vote for Victoria College (as had been suggested). That sum was 1 for specialisation only, and there was another vote of £3000 for tlie institution. It would be recollected, too, that buildings were provided out of the Public Works Fund. On the subject of tho Opaku Reserve, he said that whatever the trust was he would respect it. If the trust was for higher education (which had been defined as university education) it must be U6ed for that purpose.' The Minister said, also, that a Bill would be brought down this year to provide further means for the four university colleges carrying on their work. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) expressed the opinion that too much of the available money was being spent on higher education. Schools for Defectives. Mr. G. Witty asked whether the Government proposed to .establish a school for mentally defective girls, similar to that at Otekaiko for boys. Mr. G. M. Thomson informed the Minister also that it was exceedingly difficult, owing . apparently to congestion in the school, to get boys admitted to the Otekaike Home. He urged that new and larger buildings . were necessary. The Hon J. Allen said that he was very sorry the buildings were not available at Otekaike. " He' recognised that there ought to be built a larger school for boys, and a school for girls. Difficulties had arisen, however, especially in the clearing of the bush on the land, and the buildings had not been commenced yet. The delay was not due, ho assured honourable members, to unwillingness on his part to spend the money, or his inability to obtain it. He thought it possible that he might arrange temporary accommodation for girls at Richmond. ' ' '

. Several membersj found serious fault with administration, which had caused delay for three yeaxs in the erection of new buildings. • They did' not, however, blamo the Minister, but rather advised him to see that \the officer responsible for the delay should be "hauled over the coals." Government Departments Criticised. Sir Walter Buchanan said that the incompetence discovered was not at all surprising, for Government Departments were generally incompetent, and they were, jealous of all interference by i practical men who might be able to givo them assistance. For thirty years ho had ,at frequent intervals pointed out the incompetence displayed in laying off new roads, and the incompetence waG still being shown as much as ever. - Millions of money had | been lost in this way. The Minister would have a hard task to get rid of tho bad state of things that had been allowed to grow up in his Departments. ' Mr. Allen said that it was not the Department that was to blame, but rather he himself who was at fault. He was responsible for the control of the Department, and he would accept any blame that was attachable. Members did not see. the matter quite as the Minister did, and all who spoke on the subject, with the exception of Mr. Atmore, declared that tho Minister was.not to blame.' . An Important Point of Order. An interesting _ point of order arose out of the forogoing discussion. While Mr. Forbes was traversing a speech of the member for Mataura, who had made an unsparing attack on tho officer concerned, the_ Chairman of Committees issued a direction to the Committee that no attack upon publio officers, and no attempt,to attach responsibility to them for their official acts, could be properly made in the House, but that comment upon their action was permissible. His direction was that Ministers and members only could be-held responsible by the House. This ruling was challenged by Mr. 6. W. Russell and other, members who said that tho "ruling, if persisted in and enforced, would seriously impair the right of free discussion in Committee on the Estimates. _ Eventually, on the motion of Mr. Wilford, progress was reported in order that Mr. Speaker's ruling might 'bo taken. I

When Mr. Speaker took the chair the arguments were repeated and enlarged upon, and Mr. Mass'oy and Mr. Allen both supported Mr 7 Malcolm's ruling. Mr. Speaker said there was not the slightest doubt as to the right of members to criticise officers of the State. There was no standing order to prevent a member from commenting in Bevere terms upon, the official acts of Departmental officers. But there was a further difficulty about the case as presented to him.. He was not sure ah the moment whether members could still go on attacking an officer after the Minister of the Department had declared that he himself was responsible for all that had been done. Upon that point he would like to reserve his cision.Industrlal Schools. On the subject of industrial schools, Mr. G. Witty said that the staff was .doing excellent work at Burnham. ..Mr. C. W. Wilson (Taumarunui) and Dr. Newman (Wellington East) suggested that the boys at industrial schools should be employed in -the growing of vegetables. The vote was passed at 10.47 p.m. State Advances. The State Advances Class, the vote for which totalled £580,299, was then reviewed, and was passed with little discussion. Workers' Dwellings. The class of the Department of Labour (£28,117) was next taken. Mr. J. A. Young (Waikato) said that ho recognised the good work which the Department and the Minister bad done in the matter of. providing homes, but he added that he wished to impress upon tho Minister the need for continuing an active campaign. Mr. Massey (Minister of, Labour): We aro doing more than ever. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) also said that the Minister had done very good work, and had extended the scope of the Department. Still, there were yet demands to be met.

Sir Walter Buchanan (Wairarapa) .•said that thero was in the'Wairarapa strong desire for an extension of the workers' home system. He asked the Minister if legislation would be brought down this session to extend the area purchaseable by the Government within ,the., boundaries of a borough. r ' Mr. Masse.y: That is being prepared now. Areas to be I nor eased. Mr. Massoy said that instructions. had been given for tho preparation of a Bill to amend the law relating to workers' homes in the country. Tho Bill would £o in the direction of increasing the .area, of land to go with workers' homes outside boroughs and also insido j boroughs, l the latter in places whero thn i boroughs wore large. Tho law did not ! allow more than five acres as a sito ! for a worker's homo in the country, and ! while this was enough in closely-settled ' districts whero the land was first-class, jjt was not enough where the land was

second-class. The proposal was to increase the- area to 10 acres. In somo localities the Government had too much land, and it was intended to sell somo of it which was not likely to bo used for many years. Too Much Land at Petone. Possibly ho would sell some of the land at Petono on terms to suit purchasers, .because Petono was one of tho places where too much laud had been ' bought. Tho Government ought to'wok ahead, but the fact was that it had in somo instances looked too far ahead, and a lot of the country's money in-< vested in .land was lying idle. In Wellington there was a scarcity of suitable land, and dwellings had been erected on land that was not suitable, and workers were unwilling to occupy thorn. Very shortly the Government.' would have to look round for more suitable land for workers' dwellings. Air. J. H. Bradney (Auckland West) condemned the present system, or building workers' homes, which he declared was simply a farce. It was waste of money -to build houses for people who, with a little self-denial, could build homes for themselves. What the Government should do was to build houses for the casual workers earning less than £2 a week. Incidentally he made a. few unkind remarks about the Wellington. shims, which were indig. nantly and completely refuted by- Dr. Newman and Mr. Wilford. Tlie vote was passed unaltered. The State Forests Vote, £31,542, was also passed. Tho House rose at 0.35 a.m.