THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2216, 31 July 1914, Page 4

THE HOUSE

' The House of Representatives' met at ! 2.30 p.m.... \ - Mr. G. W. RUSSELL, (Avon) gave : notice to introduco the Legislative Council/Reform Bill; v '• : I Mr. A, ■S. Mx\LCOLM (Clutha), on i behalf of MrV'Speaker, gave notice to i introduce tho Or.ehunga Cemetery Bill. ' Mr. A: HJffINDMARSH (Wellington ! South) ,gay«. notic© 'to . ask the Prime ■' Minister whether he proposed to intro- [•= dues legislation..this session . enact [.• the olaufies dropped from tho; Shops aad i Offices Bill of last' year. i:. !Eho Hob. J. .ALLEN gavo notice to

introduce tho Dunedm . District . and Sewerage Act Amendment Bill. ' FIRST READINGS. ' The Wairau Harbour Board Foreshore Grant Bill (Mr. M'Callum), the/.TJnreglstcred Nurses' Registration Bill (Mr. Payne), - the Electoral .Reform. Compulsory Voting .Bill (Mr. Payne), the Takapuna Borough Foreshore.,. Vesting. Bill (Mr;. Hams); the Wellington City Milk Supply Amendment Bill (Mr. Hindmarsh) were all read a first time.'

STATE ADVANCES.

FOR'PURCHASE OP CROWN LEASES. \ . "OPPOSITION'S NEW POUCY."

-.The Right Hon., W. X MASSEY (Minister of- Lauds) presented the report of. the Lands and Survey Department, and with .it a return'showing how. many settlers had acquired th<j freehold of their sections under the legislation pf.Wst.yenr, and the previous year, and the money paid-into the Landß for Settlement for the purchase of freehold.

' SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) said he had heard .with amazement that the State Advances Office was lending money to Crown tenants wherewith to purchasfe the'freehold of their holdings. : Mr. Mfissoy:.Are you against it? . • ! Sir JV Ward said be was very ly against it; there was iiot sufficient money available*for all other applicants.' Ho would like to know how much money had been advanced by the Government* for, this purpose. He also wanted/to' know a great many things' he could not" get from. Ahe Government. He'.'would like,; for to see. all.■.thbjcorrei' spondonce relating ..to Mr. .Massey: What about your ginf gerbread navy? A-> Sir J.,Ward:.lf I had made suc¥ i mess of 'tho 'navy as your Governnient' lias I should be sorry. : Interjeo'tions\from both' sides of ..theHouse wero so frequent.and noisy, at jtho momont to amount almost to clamour, and Mr. Speaker appealed to.members not to interject as it caused the honour-' ■ able member-to .lose .the thread, of' his i discourse. • <

Mr. Fisher: It isn't a thread.;' It's a yarn.

Sir Joseph-AVard said he bad a letter front - a-iset'tler in the north who cora'plained that he'had been denied a loan of £250 for which he had applied to''the Advances Department. Was this because nil' the money waß being used up by Crown tenants wishing to buy the free•hold of. their;,lands ?■ He had no objection to Grown/, tenants getting /.the' ■•freehold,' but>i£ was quito clear that a' Crown fetfant was not in the position of ; a man-without land,'or a man going on .to a hew, piece of land., It would he very extraordinary state of affairs if money : from, the Advances to Settlers Office was to be used by Crown tenants to. buy land from the Crown. If ad-, i vances were to be made for this pur- : pose,; the Department finances woilld be so. crippled that/ settlers >• in need of financial: assistance, tho men for whom the Advances to Settlers Schemo es-. tahlished, would bo driven to get their money at higher rates outeido. If the Government were going to lend money for. the purchase of the freehold of Crown leases, they must make up their minds to borrow enormous sums for the . State Advances Office.

vVMr. T. M. WILFORp (Hutt) said he jhad . a reply sent by the Advances Department; to an application made/by, one of his constituents for an advance of '£150 Jon ;a- property at. Alicetown. The'reason assigned was that owing to thb heavy demands on the Department's funds* . was being g'iven to applications for money required/ for improvements of holdings, or for the purchase of holdings for personal occupaWas heavy demand due to the:system to which reference <had been made? . • . Amused at "Utter Twaddle" Spoken. ; Mr. J. B. n'INE (Stratford) said he was very , glad to hear that so much •landjhad been converted into freehold 'in this last year. ' He had been amused 'to hear;,the utter, twaddle spoken by the /Leader, of, tlie Opposition—an absolute contraditijjion'.of their arguments of the previous 'day.' One would suppose that the action; of tho Government in lending money for, the. purohase of land from/the'.'Crowii' was a new thing, but it wa& : nbt so. In; the days of .the Liberal Party ho (along ,witn others) had taken': advantage of the ' State Advances Office to'borrow' money wherewith to acquire' the freehold of his lease. Surely, in view of''this;factj-it >as very'ex- ; traordiiiary for the members of the Opposition; tb:.make, such. statements as had been, mado that , afternoon. ' : Mr;«e.:; A; 1 ' WILKINSON (Egmont) said the : Crown-tenants would be very interfesfe'd,,tb:> know, what the policy of ■the 'Opposition was, and that they could ''jaoViespgoi.-any-Yassistance from, that their freeholds. He admitted for the purchase of: , : Crpwn leases ought to be maue sparingwhen money Ws •. scarce. / He remiri3ed■:Sir Joseph' Ward ,thafc on one occasion:, in..1908 lie had said ■ that he hoped that tho-.total amount to be borrowed for .advances to settlers would ncer at' any "time exceed six millions. But the amount ,lent now about ■eight: andV'a- half S It would interest settlers ■ to' khbw. tliat Sir Jds6ph Ward was. opposed to more botr rowing for advances,to settlers;' s .' ,

The New Policy. , - The Hon. '. J. _ of, Finance) said-the Opposition had justdcelarrfd their. ;new; policy:'with, 1 regard to viadvances ;to settlers.. ~o- settler that Was a leaseholder was to; get .any advancfe' fromSthe ..State to- make his leasehold iijto* a freel'iold v . This .was tli'e. -ncw'ppiiej;. ; He hpped that tho country settleris would realise that this would be to. bo pursued by the Oppositioii\-if that party ever' got into .power. \'This. was.-not the policy of the Government in office. The Government in office were prepared to lend money to these'tenants. . It was quite trtio. as had been said, .that the settler borrowed money from the Advances Department to purchase his holding from the Government; and then paTd it over to" the "Lands'for Settlements Account, but this . was._n6t the .whole process. .The; sotfcjer;; on -to; repay in' instalments .ali 'ilcs ift.wiey V-s had'borrowed from Viffi lifliis-. -Witt

regard to the application for a loan of £150 mentioned by the member for llntt, the honourable gentleman had read part of a letter setting forth a reason for tho refusal of the advance. But the honour'ablo gentleman knew tho real reason, and had not read it from the letter. The. applicant wanted to borrow money to repay a mortgage falling due. And who htid put on this restriction against advances to repay mortgages? \

An hon. member: The Liberal Party. Mr. Allen: Not the true Liberal Party, tho pseudo-Liberals, the party now on the Opposition benches. The present Government had altered all that, he continued, and settlers could now come to the Government' and borrow up to £2000 to redeem a mortgage. Before the present Government came into office a man in this position could not borrow a brass farthing. The application made by the constituent of tno member for Hutt had been made before the alteration was made. If the application were made again, tho loan', would be granted, if ,the security was good enough. A case had been mentioned by tho Leader of the Opposition. He had had experience of a similar case, although ho could not say that .it was the same case. He wa3 sure that the refusal' of the advance .could bo fully explained. Advances were refused if the seourity was insufficient, but advances 1 were ■ also refused to owners who did not reside on their lands but who. wanted loans for speculative purposes. He could assure the Leader of the Opposition that 'there .was no danger of settlers going -short of money, because all the .funds of the Advances Office were being absorbed for tho purchase of Crown leaseholds. He could assure tho honourable gentleman that a great deal of money ■ was being lent by the office and , all reasonable demands were being satisfied. . ' ; The Problem of Settlement.\ ; Mr.'- G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) said jth.e position was that under the Lands ifor Settlement scheme the . country was .'making a profit of £90,0U0 a year. 'The Government was attempting to destroy: .that by turning the Grown leasehold into the' freehold, and ' allowing the settler to borrow; the money to do so. A systematic attempt was being mado to force up the money market. All the Croiwn tenants were coming and swamping up the money available. ,The Liberal l'arty had always attempted, to keep the money rate down, but the present Government'were creating fresh applicants for the cheap money; .money winch would othorwise. have been available for .outsiders. The return brought jn was an illuminating document-of the incapacity of the Massey Government to deal with the problem of settlement, settlement, and still more settlement. Quoting from" the roturn Mr. llussell said that the Government had settled practically 100 less persons during their second onice as compared with the last year of the Ward Administration. There were 100 more under the occupation with right of purchase tenure/' During the last year of the Liberal Party under Sir Joseph Ward .1503 persons had been settled on 472,000 acres. , During the second | year of the .'Massey Administration oiily 1405 persons had heon settled. on 353,80 a acres. I '

Mr"c"x' WILSON (Taumarunui) complained about the. . niis-statemont made that the whole o£ the money for purchase purposes was advanced to settlers, from the State Advanoos Department. Only three-fifths was advanced. Mahy advances were refused because the security was not there for the advance. The return showed clearly that enormous sums of money had gono into tho towns to build houses for 'those who were üble to build'their hemes without assistance, but took advantage of the cheap money scheme; money which was intended for; settlement.- 1

Mr; W. D. S.'.MAQDONALD (Bay of Plenty), said; that oil' April 16, 1912, the_ State ,Guaranteed . Advances Board decided tHat : thoy would not advance money for the erection of buildings for speculation purposes, but they. were quite prepared to advance ißoney to farmers'on : leasehold land.'.

:'Mr. Massey:' Butnot to rcduco mortgages. . Mr. Mac Donald: Yes, to reduce mortgages. He contended that in 1912 there were more applications coming in than the Department were authorised to supply, but, they were advancing money on leasehold land 'to meet mortgages. He was prepared to say, that-when the Minister of Finance brought down ; his report .on Advances to Settlers, ho would not be able to show as good a position as shown by the Liberal Party. !He would not leave £2,000,000 in the till for advances to settlers. The whole of the Departments , were in a flourishing condition, and the finances were never more buoyant than wlien ; the lion, member took office.

Mr. G. W. FORBES (Hurunui) held that a return should be brought in showing the price received" for t Crown lands and settlement land. It was only proper /.that tho peoplo' should know what was being done.' He objected to the "word-twisting" of the member Egmont and the Minister of Finance, for party purposes." ' 1 Mr. Masssy: There is. no man that does so much word-twisting in this House as yourself. \ Mr. Forbes :'Now, there you are. At it again. He held that forfeiture and surrenders were going on to-day, the same as £hey. were in the tpask. They .wefo beyond the control of the .Lands Department.

The Figures Speak. Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) thought that the Government had put plenty of energy into land settlement and he would be surprised if better progress had not been made than was made by tho Liberal Party. Mr. Russell:' The figures speak for themselves!

Mr.. Massey:, Yes, they-do. Mr. Anderson was not altogether in favour of the system of the Advances Department lending money for the purchase of tho estates. He thought it would be wiser if a different policy was pursued until all the money necessary for developing tho lands had,been' advanced. He thought they wanted more advice on the Land Purchase Board than they had at present, They should add to the Land Purchase Board the district valuation officers, and also one or two practical farmers. As to a. statement made by tlie Leader of the' Opposition that money had never been refused by the Advances Office for the 'purpose of having a mortgage, when lie was in office, 1 Mr. Anderson said that' ho had documents to prove that, seven months before tho present Government came into office, money had been refused to a friend of his because it was to repay a mortgage.

Mr. G. WITTY (Riccarton) said that the Bill allowing purchase of the freehold would not redound to the Credit of tlio, Government in the future. Mr. Massey: Would you like to repeal it? Mr. Witty: Yes, I would. The. motion that the report should bo'-printed was talked out.

A LOCAL BILL.

Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) moved the second reading of the Hutt Park Amendment Bill,'and explained that it empowered tlip Hutt Park Committee to permit liorsos to. be trained upon any portion' of the Hutt Park set asido by the-coininittco for that purpose. ' The'Bill was read' a second time, witliout.discussion. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. The Imprisonment for Debt Limitation Amendment Bill (Mr. A H. Hindniarsh) was fead a third time without djncueßion, and passed.