IMPREST SUPPLY

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2210, 24 July 1914, Page 4

IMPREST SUPPLY

A QUESTION OF COURTESY - OPPOSITIONISTS ANNOYED An Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's Message; v .Silt JOSEPH WAlll) (Awarua), evidently taken by surprise by the introduction of the Bill, asked why the ordinary courtesies usually extended to the Leader of .tho Opposition were ignored. Ho "complained that the Government ought to inform the Leader of tho Opposition when aii Imprest Bill was brought down, and said that in the time wion Mr,, Massey' was Leader of the and he (Sir Joseph Ward) was Prime Minister, notice was invariably, communicated to the Leader of tho Opposition.' It was apparent also that the members of the Government Party had news 'that the Bill was coming, .but .they'made no remark about.it. Apparently they, wore afraid to speak. ; -Tho Right Hon. W. I<\ MASSEY (Primo Mmistor) said ho had listened with soma ninusement to the'simulated indignation of the Leader of tho Opposition. \Vho was responsible for what Had''.-happened? A few days ago tho Leader','of' the Opposition had. been guilty of a,very much .worse breach of courtesy in springing a want-of-confi-dence motion on the House without a raomont's' notico. That was the first occasion in,tho history of the New Zealand Parliament that a' want-of-confi-denco; niotion was brought forward by the. Leader-of tho Opposition without notico being given in the ordinary way. He>mado that statement, and it could not bo cofitradioted.

Sir JoHiSbh Ward: You did it yourself:: . ; Mr. Massey: I never did it. He explainpd,,lipwever, that on one occasion a letter,from him to tho Prime Minister miscarried, but that was no fault of his. - .Sir J-.v-Ward,: Is that your reason for this?-: Mm; -

: - Mrr:Masspy: Yes. I have done this I to' bring home to the right lionourablo proper sense of his lack of courtesy 'to the Prime Minister on that 'Occasion!. .".Ho. said that he was quite tfillingl.tbfjDXtend every courtesy that, cWaa:.dUfl;.,tp tho Leader of the Opposition;niid oyory one of his followers, but ■ho expected similar courtesy in return, :and' lie must take • sucli steps as, would .bring: home to tho Leader of the Opposition a-proper sense of his failure in 'courtesy 7 to tlio Primo Minister.

- • The Cat and the Mice. Ho assured tho Leader of /Jie Opposi-tion-tliafc the Ooveriimcilt I'arty wero .'a-particiilarly happy family. ... Mr. Isitt;. Wo know how submissive thoy are—[iici'O political micc. Mr. Massey: The honourable gentleman says they are political mice. Wo know, where tho political cat is, and.up 'till the present ihe political cat has

boon unablo to catch a single' mouse, and ho never will. ,

Ho. hoped, lie continued, that now that this matter was cleared up there would be no further friction. This year, however ready the Government wore to stay hero to do the business of the country, the session could not pass beyond the end of October, 'and, Thursday being the day for local Bills, as there were no local Bills on tho Order Paper,' tho Government had thought it would expedite business, to got the Imprest'Bill for the month out of tho way. Sir Joseph Ward rose to speak but he was informed by Mr. Speaker that ho had spoken, and therefore that .he had ho right to speak again. Sir Joseph Ward protested that when a matterof this'sort was before the House being discussed by the two Leaders, it was usual to allow some littlo latitude, ! Mn Speaker informed him that he could, speak with tho indulgence of tho House. ' ' .Sir Joseph Ward said ho would not accept'that position, and would not appeal to the House for tho indulgence. ; -Mr. Speaker pointed, out that tho Standing Orders were not of liis making,' arid further that Sir Joseph AVard would have other opportunities of speaking ;op./tho Bi}l. ' , ,

Other Members' Protests. Mr. J. PAYNE (Girey Lynn) accused the Government of introducing the Imprest Bill. in. order to block two of his Bills. . . , .Mr. H, G...ELL (Christchurch South) said tho Government'had set .a bad example, such as he had never beforo known. Hitherto it had always been the custom to put "Supply" at the top of tHo Order Paper to give members notice.

Mr. Fisher: And then print the Order Paper at three o'clock. I've seen you do it.

Mr, Massey interjected that on Thursdays ho did not, control the Order Papelr. Mr. T. K. SIDEY (Dunedin South), who had a Bill on the Order Paper, complained against the introduction of i}ri Imprest Bill on a day on which private members' Bills were at tho top of. the Order Paper. Mr. J. V. BROWN (Napier) upbraided the Prime Minister on his action ill introducing the Bill without' notifying the . Reader of the Opposition. Ho even accused the Prime Minister, to the accompaniment of laughter from the Government benches, of lack of dignity.

Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) used tho ter.n "gross discourtesy"' as applied to the Prime Minister's action.

: ' Several other members spoke on tho saino subject, professing to deplore the Prime Minister's action.

Art Auckland Squabble.

3Mr. A. M. MYERS (Auckland East) pressed tho Government to 1 go on with the ..construction of-a new University Coliego a;t Auckland. He happened to say that lie though* the sito for the college was an area near the centre of the city known,'as the Metropolitan Grounds. . '

Mr. V.. H.. REED (Bay of Islands) at 'once entered ..into the site controversy, which lias raged in Auckland for about five years.. ■. Mr. H. POLAND (Ohinemuri) also protested against takiijg the .Metropolitan Grounds, "tho heritage' of the people of Auckland."

Mr... A. E. GLOVER (Auckland Central) spoko his pieco about the proposal to put tho. University on the Metropolitan Grounds, opposing it as a matter of course. "'

'/Mr. J. S. DICKSON (Parnell) also apposed, the proposal.

Railway Construction. The Hon. It. M'KENZIE (Motuekii) . said that the Government. wero stopping road and railway 'works ail over tlio_ country, and he sought to prove this by making comparisons for the year 1911 and the year 1913 of the numbers of men employed on road and railway works.'- Tile 'object of tho 'Government, lie 'said, seemed to be to congest the labour market, and he believed their actions were having this effect. He spoke chiefly of the North Auckland railways and tho East Coast railway, but ho said that beforo tho end of the session ho intended to criticise thd Government's policy in respect of every railway wider construction in tho country.

; Mr. F.MANDEIt (Mnrsden) wasablo to remind the member for Motueka that at one time during the administration of. the lflte. Government, ' the . North Auckland Tailway was being "pushed ahead" at the.rate of a mile a year! Then in the term of the honourable) gentleman in office, m making a deviation in tho route of that line he had made 0110 of tho greatest blunders that had ever been njade by a Minister of Public Works iij New', Zealand'. As the result of tho choice of a route on which Beveral tunnels lmcl to bo cut, progress Was now slow by comparison with what it otherwise would havo been. The fact was that tho lionourablo member had done more damage to the north by this mistake than ho would ever mako good if ho lived for 100 years. For 21 years construction on the North Auckland line had gone on at the rate of a mile a year, and now it was absurd for him to find fault with tho Minister of Public Works, who could not push along the works because of the mistake made in tho choico of' a difficult r'outo—a mistake made by tho then Minister (Mr. M'Kenzie) in the faco of tho advice of all his engineers except one.

. Mr. W. A. VEITOH (Wanganui) pleaded- for full civil and political rights for State employees, and asked for an amendment of the law this session in order that it should apply to next election.

The Real Facts. Tho Hon. J. ALLEN (Minister of Finance) said he did not propose to traverse the speech of; tho member for Wanganui. Cabinet had, however, dona a great deal to give State employees wider rights,.'but tho.lionourablo gentleman had raised a debatable problem which he was not prepared to discuss. Hp wished to refer to tho remarks of tho member for Motueka. Tlio honourable gentleman liad ■ been ' very industrious in preparing a statement — a stateraont H'hich was, however, very difficult to follow. Ho was therefore not prepared to say whether the honourable gentleman's figures wero correct. It was very, misleading indeed to take, as the honourable gentleman had taken, one month in each of two years, and compare tlio number of employees in order to mako out that railways had been neglccted.

Mr. M'Kenzic: 1 picked out six months.

Mr. Allen: I am going to pick oufi more than six months. 1 am going to pick out twelve months. • Ho had bol'oro him, ho continued, the figures for 191213, showing tho expenditure on the main trunk lines. For the Wailii-Tau-r»nga section of tho East Coast railway thoro was an appropriation of £5000, but the Minister of Public Works had spent £53G3 —more than thb appropriation. For the Tauranga-Pae-ngnroa section tho appropriation was £25,000, but his colleague had again exceeded the expenditure, having spent £28,083. . ■ Mr. Mac Donald: Ho lias tho right to spend 25 per cent, additional.

Mr. Allen: Now, that is tho late Minister of Public Works, and he displays absolute ignorancoof tlio law of llio country and its finances. Flo ought to know that the 25 per cent, refers to the three months alter tho ending of the financial year, and I am dealing with tho financial year. Willi regard to the Ciishorne-Mntu section, he continued, the appropriation was £SO,OOO, and the expenditure was on this sect.iononly £38,563. And these.appropriations were taken not to, supply the

needs for those railways for tho financial year ending March 31, but also for tlio months afterwards until Sei>tembor or October. All this money was spout beforo March 31. On the northern end of tho Napier-Gisborno section flie appropriation was £15,00U, and tlio expenditure £15,684. Again his colleague had exceeded tlio appropriation. For the southern section tho veto was £12,000, and the expenditure £11,444. In all 87 per cent, of tho total appropriation for this railway had boon spent,' and of tlio whole appropriations for railways 81 per cent, had been spent by fllarch 31,

Then and Now. Ho proposed to let tho honourable .gentleman know how the late Government let the public works go on. 'I'ne total expenditure on railways construction in the year 1909-10 was £1,103,000, iii 1910-11, £1,104,000; in 1911-12, £1,125,000. But in tho first year under the lleform Government, although their finances were seriously hampered, tho amount spent was £1,148,000. . The total expenditure on public works in tlio year 1909-10 was £1,993,000; in tlio yoar 1910-11, it. was £1,892,000; and iii tlio year 1911-12, the first year of the lleform Government,- it was £2,274,000. Mr.- llussell: That must have been on the Estimates of tho Mackenzie Government.

Mr. Allen: Then it shows that wo must have carried out tho Estimates very successfully. The next year, he continued, on the Reform Government's own Estimates, the expenditure had been £2,378,000, and in 1913-14, £2,421,000. This was evidence not only of tlio prosperity of the country, but of til? activity of the Government in providing moneys for the carrying out of public works. Year by year there had been progression ever since the present 'Government had been in office. This was a comploto answer to the honourable gentleman who had quoted a mass of figures nobody could follow, and had talked a lot of rubbish, in an endeavour to discredit the Government.

Followed a Bad Examplo. Some remarks had been made about tho. Prime Minister not having informed tile Leader of the Opposition that an Imprest Supply Bill was coming down that afternoon. The Leader of the Opposition apparently felt sore because he had not been notified. Personally, he was sorry, but had not .the hon. membor set tho bad example. Ho had moved a No-Confidenco motion a short time before. Ho (Mr. Allen) did not remember a ease before where the Leader of tho Government was not notified of a, no-confidence motion. Yet ho was not notified by the Leader of the Opposition, when ho moved his no-confidence motion. Well, the Prime Minister did not complain/ Why should he? Ho took it as an indication that tho Leader of the Opposition did not want any courtesies extended. He had simply taken tho lead extended. Mr. Allen said that ho did not think that it justified the remarks mado by some of tho hon. members that afternoon. The member for Avon had talked of "a bit of spite." It was childish to talk of spito. The member for Wairau had spoken of "bitter, malignant spile." Could anyono look at the Primo Minister for ,a moment and imagine 'that ho had any spite, or could bear a bitter malignant' grudge against anybody, even his greatest enomy? Of course they knew,the member for Wairau did not mean it, and they did not pay much attention to what he had said. ■ '

The Unemployed Question. Ho desired to say a few words about the unemployed' question. He hoped hon. members were not attempting to make party, capital oait of it, because he thought that tlioy were all anxious' to find employment for men who .want;' ed work. Tho Minister .of Public Works had done a groat deal to re* lieve the unemployment. He was afraid a good, deal of it was due to the strike which took place last year: That dislocated industry and employment. Ho was afraid the present unemployment, was an aftermath of strikes, and ho hoped the lesson would be learned, both by those who sought employment and by those who were in the position of employers. He believed the member, for Avon was entirely wrong when ho quoted the Minister of Railways as having said that the loss through the striko was only £50,000. The loss through tho strike and tho smallpox was nearer £250,000.

Tho member for Avon and other members bad raised the point that tho Minister of Railways had discharged a number of railway employees to meet tho balance-sheet and deceive the,people. He quoted from an official return to show that through anticipations of increased traffic for tho Auckland Exhibition, ■' and to provide extra rolling stock, as many casuals as could be taken op wore employed at the workshops. That rolling stock was completed just before Christmas, and, in accord with tho usual custom when there was no extra work to be done, the men were discharged. !

Mr. Russell: And the country has been crying but for rolling-stock. ■ Mr. Allen: Tho country has beeu crying out for rolling-stock for the last twenty years. I venture to say that the rolling-stock is' bettor provided for to-day than it has ever been in the past. What liad the Minister of Public Works done? During tho last few months he had found employment for several hundreds of moil. Within tho last week he bad found employment for fifty men. Within the last fortnight fifty v mcn had been p'nt on at Waihi. The member for Bullor had said that nothing had been done in his district. Tho Minister had spent £2000 ' more than was 011 the Estimates for tho work at Karamea. He had "said enough' to show that the Government was' doing all it could to deal with tho jmomployed question. Immigration.

As to immigration. -An lion', member had raised that question. It would be unwise, he thouglit, of any Government to introduco a great mass of labour into tliis country. It was not being dono. Immigration was restricted, except as regarded 'farm labour. It would bo admitted that tho farmers found difficulty in getting the necessary labour' to carry on their work. Tho Auckland University site question had been raised. With regard to . tho suggestion that tho University should bo placed somo distance outside the Citv of Auckland, He did not sco how it was practicable, nndor the present conditions, to do so. Ho had dono his best to find a solution to tho University site question, and he recognised that Parliament would not be doing its duty to Auckland unless it .sottlod the question. He hoped to have it settled in a short timo. Ho wns sorry it was not done years ago, when land might, have been purchased 011 more favourable terms.

Amentia Honourable. Silt .IOSEI'II WARD (Awurun) said lio proponed to dircct tlio attention of tlio House to.the proposod constitution of tlio legislative Council. But first ho wished to {say that, lie regretted 1 lint iiy nn oversight 011 his part ho had tu iulonn tlio Prime Minister oi' lna intention to niovo n voto of No-Confidence. It was the first motion of tlio kind he Inul over moved, but ho did lint claim tliat this excused his cversiglit. Kol'on ing again to tlio Legislative Council, lie said that 11s fourteen cf tlio old mouthers of the Council had voted for tlio second reading of tlio Reform Hill, «o that if 110 new members had been appointed' thero would have liocn a clear majority for tlio Bill of six. , Mr.' Mtissey .raised a point of .orderthat. the honourable member had no right-to refer (0 what had taken place that afternoon in "another place. Mr. SPEAKER said that it would

not bo in order for tho Leader of the' Opposition to refer to tho actions of members of the Upper House.

Sir Joseph Ward directed attention to the fact that tlio Prime Minister had informed tho House that tho reason for appointing new members to tin? Council was that tlieso were necessary to carry tho Bill to alter the constitution of that Chamber. But tho fact was tb.it if no new members had been appointed the Hill could still have been carried. In tho other branch of tho Legislature, Labour had less representation numerically than over before in tho last twenty years. Mr. Masscy: By bow many? Sir Joseph Ward said lie did not propose to discuss that question, because tho Prime Minister would probably claim'that 'some of tho members there woro representatives of Labour, although they had had no placo in tho councils of Labour for very many years. Some of the-men who were dropped were sound and sane men on Labour questions, and they had been replaced by men of entirely another sort. Tho responsibility for that was, however, oil the Prime .Minister,

"A Silent Sufferer." He,proposed also to refer to financo. He had for a long timo been a silont sufferer from the poisoned arrows sent front the other side for political purposes. He went on to discuss tho statement that had been mado that lie (Sir J. Ward) had left things in a mess when he went out of office. The Minister of Finance' had taken to self-adula-tion, hailing himself as "The Great I Am." But' when the honourable gentleman went to London to raise money whose information did he put on record? Whoso methods did he use to provide revenue in the meantime? "Milie all the time."

Mr. Nosworthy: Then you're "Tho Great I Am."

Sir Joseph Ward wont oil to refer to successful flotations of loans previous to that which the Minister of Finance had made. The first lie mentioned was in 1895—a 3 per cent. loan. Dr. Newman: What was the discount?

Sir J. Ward;. The discount was not raised in connection with this loan, and I am not raising it now. '■ Government members laughed ironically. Sir Joseph Ward digressed to reprove the honourable gentleman who had answered his "argument" with "inane laughs." He propounded the theory that if a loan was taken up instanter a reasonable presumption ■ was that the people who took it up were going to make a pretty good profit out of it. Ho was informed that the brokers who secured this loan made a profit oi £40,000 out of it. hi his opinion it was better to make the terms of a loan a little less attractive, and to allow the underwriters to retain a little of it, rather than to give such terms as to make it good business for brokers to rush the purchase and make a lot of money out of it. Then ho went on to detail some of his other achievements in securing reductions of the charges on the New Zealand inscribed stock in tho year 1895. Ho challenged tho Mine Minister's statement that past Treasurers had collared sinking funds. No New Zealand Treasurer had over collared sinking funds.

Tlio Press of Business. ' • Tho Right Hon. W. F. MASSEY ; (Prime Minister) said ho would fpllow tlio good example, of til© Leader of tho Opposition and express regret that ho had not informed tho Leader of tho Opposition iihat the Imprest Supply Bill : was coming on. To those wfio complained about the Imprest Bill coming on in place of private members' Bills lie would say that.tharo was a great deal of work that must be done, in this the.last sossion of tho Parliament. .Was it to. 'be seriously suggosted that another, day .should bo wasted as the previous day:had been, .when the business oi tho session had not been advanced by tho slightest'-bit? He !would not favour doing away ivith private members' days,, but there ought to bo no complaint about taking tho day usually allotted to local Bills, especially when there wero no local Bills sufficiently far advanced to occupy tho Houso. Also lie had been advised by the Departments that it caused inconvenience to delay the Imprest Supply Bill until the last days of the month. He would say to members that they ought not to cavil at tho Government's action in seeking to expedite business, seeing that tho Government wero determined to put through their programme if the Houso had to sit right up to' the expiry of Parliament.

Sir Joseph Ward: You don't object to fair criticism P

Mr. Massey: No, I don't. But I do object to abuse. Fortunately' I h'av'o come to. tho conclusion that abuse from certain honourable members is a compliment rather than the roverse. I have como to regard it that way.

Ho mentioned tho Auokland University site. Ho was sorry tlioy had not been'ablo to select a site, but the peoplo in Aucidand, owing to their differences of opinion, were moro to blamo than the Government. He objected to the Government House site being interfered with.

Mr. Myers: Will you come to Auckland this week-end and settle the site?

. "Mr.'Massey'said that ho would bo pleased to accompany the lion,' member on the first chauco ho got. Ho was satisfied they could settle tho question. As to the extension of full civil and political rights 'to Public Servants, he pointed out that 110 difficulties would bo placed in tho way of any Civil Ser-. vant becoming a member of a local body. ' Cabinet had decided that the Government had done moro ill that direction than any other Government.

Legislative Council Criticism. Mr. Massey proceeded to reply to the criticism of Sir Joseph Ward 011 the 'appointments to tho legislative Council. Tlio lion, member must have known tliat at the cud of last session tho Government did not havo a major-

ity. Sir 'Joseph Ward: You could havo found out how they were going to vote.

. Mr. Massoy: It is quite evident, from what has taken place 'now, that some of the'membors who were opposed to the Biil now favour it. It was necessary for tlio Government to inako sure of their position, and appoint a sufficient number to carry the Bill. They had a perfect right to do so. Ho would go further, and say they had a duty to keep the Council up to a working strength. It was certainly not up to a working strength when it was down to twenty-eight members. Tho Government had advised tho Governor to appoint eleven members, and he would attention to tho fact that thoso appointments appeared to have given general satisfaction all over New Zealand. He had never seen appointments so well roccivod. They had endeavoured to. secure representation for all parties, and have every class represented. Mr, Webb: What about Labour? Mr. Massey: There are three. We re-appointod two, and appointed ailother. Tlio Hon. R. M'Konzie: What about the. mining interests? Mr. Massey: 'There arc members quite qualified to represent tlio mining industry. If not, I shall bo quite prepared to consider. tlio appointment of the HOll. It. M'lConzie. (Laughter.) They had attempted to make the Council truly representative. Ho had appointed several friends of the Leader of tho Opposition. He did not regret; it. Sir Joseph Ward: It is a. principle that when a man goes thero he becomes non-party. Mr. Massey:'Exactly; hut it does hot follow that thero should only one 'party. That was the position during the .lion, member's tenure of office.

Mi-.' Masscy thought that tho references made to finances were with tlio object of discounting tho work of tilt Minister of Finance when raising a loan in London.

Sir Joseph Ward: It was to refute tho imputation against mo and my predecessor.

Mr. Masscy: I do not think there was any imputation. You cannot deny tlio finances were not satisfactory when wo came into office. The lato Government had left tlio Advances Department in such a state tliat it was impossible for this Government to lend moro than £600 to any settler. This was not so now, and money could bo found for those legitimately in need ot it, whether settlers, workers, or local bodies. Regarding loan flotations, ho said that comparisons of recent loans floated in London showed that Now Zealand's credit was higher tliau that of any other of His Majesty's Dominions.

The New Councillors. Mr. G. W. IiCJSSELL (Avon) attacked the Government for having appointed eleven gentlemen to tho Legislative Council, kaying that circumstanccs had shown that thero was no need to appoint members to tho Council to carry the Government Bill; The appointments had, in fact, mado it impossible to bring about the reform which the Government professed to bo so anxious to carry out. When tlio Bill camo into operation after the year 1917, there would be two sections in the Council— the section elected by tho people and tho section appointed by this Government. The Government's actions in tho matter had, he declared, been marked by the greatest insincerity and humbug. They had kept the Bill dangling beforo the people in order to bo able to fill tho Council with their friends. Somo of the now appointees had fought tlioir way to the Council by tho support they had given to the Government. '"One gentleman whom I cannot name," he said, "has been for some time writing open letters to the Prime Minister published in tho Conservative Press in which he has lied about mo."

Mr. Speaker: The honourable member must not rofer in those terms to an 'honourable member of the Upper House.

Mr. Russell withdrew tho remark, but said he would look with some interest foi other open lotters. He declared that although the Government had said in opposition that under independent' control the Civil Service would be rid of incompetents, and the cost of administration of it would be reduced, now under the Commissioners nono of the alleged incompetents' had been dismissed, and the wages had been increased. And tho only fault that could be laid at the door of the Liberals was that tlioy had held the pursestrings a bit too tight. : Mr. W. A. VEITCH (Wanganui) argued that with a view of reducing taxation, the Government ought to make tho manufacture of tobacco and cigar-, ettes a State monopoly. Ho contended that tobacco could be successfully grown in Now Zealand. , •

Tho. Public service. j The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN (Attor-ney-General) referred to tho fact that tho member for Avon had made a cliargo that the Government' had declared, before they came into office, that there were incompetent persons in tho Public Service, but the Commissioners had failed to find them. It was a matter of public knowledge that political appointments had been made by a previous Administration. He did not desire to deal with that point. As to the statement made that tho Commissioner had; not found incompetent persons in the Service, if the honourable member perused the report of the Commissioner he would find that ho stated the position was not satisfactory when ho took control.. In a paragraph ifi his : first, report; he said that there, wqr.e Departments in which .proper organisa-. tion prevailed, but tho Service was not found in as good a stato as it should have beon. Reading betwoen tho lines, it showed he did not find tho Service was efficient. In his second report; ho said: "I stated eight months ago that tho Servico was not, broadly speaking, in an efficient state, but there was marked improvement on the part of members of the Service, which was not known before." He (Mr. Hordman) had declared that, while there wore many incompetent and political appointments mado, there were many men in tho Service who wero of a highly officiont order. Referring to economies, tho Commissioner, in his first report, estimated tho saving at £47,000. In his second report he declared, in addition to th 6 £47,000, ho could seo a saving of another £20,000, reaching a total saving of £67,000. Those statements were backed up by reports of heads of Departments. It was possible for an experienced man like the Commissioner to be ablo to point out whero savings could bo offeotod, and that was what he was doing.' He had shown that a saying of £67,000 could be made. After dealing with the various temporary appointments made permanent by tlio Commissioner, and setting out whero saving was to be effected, tho Minister again said that .he was satisfied the Public Servants themselves re- ■ cognised tho conditions now wore infinitely to be preferred to the conditions of control of tho Opposition. Tho benefits tlicy had derived had been enormous. 1

Reminding Mr. Russell. Tho Hon. F. M. B. FISHER said ho wished to read to the member for Avon somo extracts from. a speech of his riiado somo years ago. That honourable gentleman had complained about a new appointee to tho Council for having written certain statements-concerning him. But did the' honourable gentleman remember introducing into tho House in 1910 a Legislative Council Reform Bill; to provide for the election of members to tlio Upper Chamber? . All 11011. member: Ho has forgotten that. Mr. Fisher said tho honourable gentloman had 011 that, occasion said that he thouglit it improper to discuss any mombers of thai Chamber in tho House. Tho honourable gentleman said then too that it was the Government's duty to introduco the legislation, but now, when this Government introduced it, ho did nothing but wrangle and rage about it. Mr. Russell had in 1910 defended the appointment by Mr. 'Ballanco on liis accession to power of twelve new Councillors to correct: tlio balanco of power in tho Council And now, a few years afterwards, tho honourable gentleman was complaining becauso tile Government, was acting up to the -very spirit and soiitimcnt that he himself gavo expression'to in 1910. Mr. Russell had said there would one day be a chango of Government, and tho now Government ought not to be placed in tho position ,of having their measures rejected by tho Council. What had tlio honourable gentleman to say to that? Mr. Russell: It was prophetic. Mr. Fisher: It was singularly prophetic. Ho wont on to say_ that Mr. llussell had even suggested in his 1910 speech that the election of nionibors to the Council ought to bo by the Hare system of proportional representation. It almost seemed that the Bill now before • Parliament was drafted from the honourable gentleman's specch. Also he had suggested that deadlocks between tho "Chambers should bo provided against in tho same way as in Australia. Now there wns tlio spectacle of a double dissolution in Australia because of a deadlock. Tho honourable member ought to re-read his own speech. It was 0110 of tlio few speeches tho honourable gentloman had over made that was worth re-reading. Then the honourable gentleman would seo that, .his more rccent speech of that evening was unfair both to tho Council and to tho Government.

Incroases in Expenditure. Mr. Fisher said the Govemmant had

been accused of increasing expenditure, and ho proposed to give a few details of tho increases, and to ask honourable members of tho Opposition which of them ought to be reduced. Ho gavo tho following details of increased expenditure sinco tho Government as- • sumed office, and asked honourable members what items ought not to havo been increased:— Superannuation funds: 1! (Additional each year), Teachers .....' : 10,000 Public Sorvico 26,000 (Railways 25.000 Increased pay to Publio Servants under' Publio Servico Commissioners; 1912-13 ...: 49,500 1913-14 51.600 Increased pay to Post and Telegraph stair: ■ 1912-13 42,600 1913-14 43,000 Increased pay to Police ......... 18,000 Increased pay to school teachers 22,872 Military pensions (per annum) 44,428 Old ago pensions to women at GO 70,000 Old age pensions (further ' amendments) ■ 10,000 Widows' pensions 5,000 Concessions under Customs Act 30,000 | Sinking fund for public buildings (per annum) 10,000 And on various accounts the Government had to face.tho following Itovcimo reductions: £ On account ot smallpox epidemio 23,701 On account of strike (about) ... 100,000 Loss of railway revenue duo to both above causes 178,000 Loss ill Customs revenue 18,000 Which of theso items did tho honourable geutleraen object to? Mr. Russell: if we liad been in office there wouldn't havo been that loss owing to the strike.

Mr. Fisher: No, and I'll tell you why. • You would havo gone down on your knees to the strikers. He added tnat he believed tho peoplo. of lSen Zealand were well satisij®d with what had been done. Tho Government Printing Office, ha said, Jiau oeen round.' by this Government in a deplorable state —-women there with nearly 30 years' servico getting onlj £120 a year. The Government had improved all that, and were doing their best to make it a model Stato institution. "Panic" and "Normal." A good'deal had been said about advances. But what were the facts p In 1908 the advances were £1,401,894: in 1909 they wore £1,792,019; and in 1910 they were £1,457,472. In 1911, election year, they were £2,017,265, and in the noxt year; in a frantic endeavour to retain'office, tho panic-stricken Government bumped up the advances to £3,569,820. In the next two years I the advances were £1,933 990 and £1,575,405—back to normal again—and it has been a hard fight, for the Government to get back to.normal after tho legacy left by the lato Government. The figures given above represented three years of "normal," two "panic" years, and two "normal" years. The Building Uegaoy. Mr. Fisher went on to remark that the Ward Government had committed the country to an extravagant and unnecessary outlay upon the new Parliamentary Buildings and the new Government House. Dealing further with the legacy of oostly and uncompleted buildings left to the Governmout, he remarked: "What about the Wellington Post Office?" What did that cost? Mr. Isitt: You've got your names on it? : Mr. Fisher: Well, surely to Heaven we are entitled to have pur names on it—we havo paid for it—the greater part .of its cost .has been.,paid since tHe'- ii '''pres6iit vn Government took office;'' '- Ho went "on' "to state, that men had worked at night by, electric light in order that Ministers -of tho former Government, might get their names on tho foundation-stone of tho now Parliamentary Buildings. Mr. Anderson: And they used a tombatonol Mr. Fisher said that tho Auckland Post Office had cost £120,048, and the Wellington Post Office £185,489, while tho portion of the new Parliamentary Buildings now in course of erection would cost a total amount of £224,808. It was absurd that the opponents of the Government, after committing it to this enormous expenditure upon buildings, should now accuse it of extravagance in this class of expenditure.

Cost of Living. Pointing out that the Leader of the Opposition bad accused the Government of increasing the Customs Tariff, and thereby I increasing the cost of; living, Mr. Fisher quoted tho following extract from tho report of the Cost of Living Commission set up by. the Mackenzie Government in 1912: —

• "Comparing 1894-98 with 1906-10, wo find that the l following important foodbtuffs rose higher than the average level of prices. Wlicat, barley, beef, mutton, lamb, bacon, butter, and, cheese—some of them very much higher. Tea, coffee, flour and oats rose less than the average. Only , sugar, rice, and currants toll. '

. "The increase in the cost of living as measured by changes in these important foodstuffs is estimated to bo 21 per cent, during the last seventeen- years. In arriving at this result, the commodities have been weighted according to their relative importance in consumption. If wo take the years 1911' and 1912 Into account, the rise will excccd 21 per cent. If retail prices are taken into account, instead of wholesale, and other items :in consumption besides food, the cost of living in Auckland from 1904-6 to 1910 increased about 23 per cent. A similar comparison for Christchurch based on retail prices of food only between 1904-5" and 1910-11 ■shows an incroaso of 20 per cent. The cost of living, as measured by rent and food, has inoreased at a more rapid rato during the last fifteen years in Auckland than in Christchurch." Tho Cost of Living Commission, said Mr. Fisher, had demonstrated that during the term of the Ward Government the cost of living had largely increased. Mr. Robertson: The Government did not increase it. Mr. Fisher said that he had not saul so. What he had sajd was that the Leader of tho Opposition had said iu going round tho country that tlio Government had increased tho Customs tariff, and, as a consequcnce, tho cost of living. , Sir J. Ward said that this was absolutely incorrect. Mr. Fisher asked whether the right lion, gentloman would deny saying that the Government inoreased the Customs tariff by 3.93 per cent.? . Ho challenged the Leador of tho Opposition to say what item of Customs duty had been increased by tho Government. As a fact, concessions totalling £30,000 wero granted under tho Customs Bill of last year. The statements which had heen made bv the Leader of the Opposition wore misleading in tho extreme. _ In concluding, Mr. Fisher said that tho debate had been very quiot, and very littlo bad beon said against the Government. It was very satisfactory to find that after tho Government had. boon in office for two years the Opposition could find no serious defect in tile administration of tho Reform Party. Tho Bill passed at 2.20 a.m., and tho House rose forthwith.

ITEMS OF SUPPLY. The Imprest Supply Bill beforo the House of Representatives yesterday and this morning provides for the following appropriations from the pub'.io revenues; . FIRST SCHEDULE. Tho Consolidated Fund 700,000 Tho Public Works Fund 200,00" Tho Aid to Water-power Works Account 15,00( The Irrigation and Water-sup-ply Account 4,00G Opening up Grown Lands for , ' Settlement Account ' 6,000 The National Endowment Account 1,000 . The Land for Settlements Account 2,000 Tho State Forests Account ... 2,000 Tho State Coal-mines Account 25,000 Tho Scencry Preservation Account : 1,500 Tho Wcllington-Hutt Railway and Road Improvement Account 200 Tho Railways Improvements ' Account 2,000 The Native Land Settlement Account 300 Tho Waihou and Oliinemuri Rivers Improvement Account 2,000 £961,000 ■ £ SECOND SCHEDULE. & The-Government Insuranco Account 7,000 Tho Government Accident Insurance Account .. IjOOO Tho State Firo Insurance Account ; 1,700 The Publio Trust Office Account 3,000 The New Zealand State-guar-anteed Advances Account — Advances to Settlors Branch Account .; 2,000 Advances to Workers Branch. Account 200 Advances to Local Authorities Branch 100 ' £15,000