MR. ASQUITH

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2136, 30 April 1914, Page 5

MR. ASQUITH

DUTIES OF THE ARMY IX CIVIL WAIt. Mr. Asquith: Wo most gratefully acknowledge that the vote ot censure is couched in mild and moderate terms and that Mr.. Boriar Law's speech was characterised by a corresponding moderation in tone. ("Hear, hear.") lie laid down throe propositions, to which I subscribe my hearty assent: 1. . He. was—and we are all—willing to take- great risks to make- any tolerable eolutioii, however unpalatable to; 'ourselvcSj acceptable. 2. Bloodshed is iiev-'cfj'ustinablb'if there is' any other possible course. (Loud Unionist cheers and counte.r-chcers.) And, 3, at this stage in our dealings with this grave and momentous matter none of us, if wo can avoid it, should finally close 'any door to settlement. 1 cannot give the same,, or, indeed, any degree oi : assent to his proposition with regard to the duties and functions of the Army—(Ministerial dicers) —in case of civil war. Who is to ba the judge- of whether a particular conflict in which the armed forces of the Crown are- called upon to intervene does or does not fall within the category of civil war? Is it to be left to the judgment of the individual soldier, or to the officer in command, or to the general ? Such a proposition as that seems to mo to strike at t'lie very root of society. (Ministerial cheers.) Do not imagine you can isolate this particular case of Ulster —(prolonged cheers and counter-cheers —serious, and, indeed, in respects, unique, as 1 admit it to lie, and apply to it a principle which is not capable of wider, larger, and much more formidable application. We'all ought to have ill view the possible contingency that iu a society such as ours tho intervention of tho armed forces of tho Crown in defence of the law may be required. I very much deprecato the laying down by responsible statesmen in the. position of tho right hon. gentleman that it lies in tho discretion of those in tho scrvico of tho King in contingencies such as this to determine whether or not any particular contingency justifies them in describing it as a case of civil war. Mr. Sonar Law: The question whether it is or is not a case of civil war is generally decided by both sides being regarded as combatants. For instance, in the American Civil War the South was regarded not as rebels, but as combatants. That is the distinction. " . Mr. Asquith: I do not want to enter into that. As a matter of fact, tho South was always described as rebels.

Why six Years? What was our objeqfr- in putting in tho term of six years? (J.) i'o give to tho electors ot tno whole United .Kingdom an opportunity of expressing an opinion on tno matter; but (2), far more important, to afford them such an opportunity that by actual observation and. experience they can see by tbcv.'orking of tho Irish Legislature whether or not tho objections or Ulster to inclusion are well or ill founded. (Ministerial cheers.) 1 say with tho utmost confidence that whatever party is in power—Liberal or Unionist—if it is proved by actual working experience of an Irish Parliament and an Irish Executive that oppression, persecution, and invidious, unlair, or invidious preferential treatment is a real and actual danger—l don't care whether you havo got a Liberal or a Conservative majority in this House —they would not agree to it. (Ministerial choors.) Xcw, suppose a referendum were to produce a majority in favour of our proposals. May I take it that in the view of the right lion, gentleman and his colleagues it carries with it the authority, if necessary, to coerce Ulster? Mr. Bonar Law was understood to nod assent. Mr. Asquitb: It does. (Ministerial cheers and Opposition dissent.) It is not a matter for party. We want to get at a real understanding. I am dealing with it seriously. Let us examine it. The right lion, gentleman is prepared, speaking in the name of tho Unionist party, if a referendum is now taken in advance and the answer given by tho people or tho United Kingdom is in favour of our proposals, to go even tho length of coercing Ulster. (.Ministerial choors and Opposition cries of "No.") I. tako it that he is prepared io say that wo should bo justified in doing it. (Opposition cries of "No.") Very well. What is our proposal ? Our proposal is that you should lirsfc givo the six years' trial, that no attempt should bo made to bring in Ulster against its will—any part of Ulster —within the ambit of this scheme until you have had six years' experience of tho actuai working of it. (.Ministerial cheers.) And until then, and

oven then, subject to the decision which might bo come to, and which in a nt case certainly would be given in the sense oftho veto by this Imperial House ot : Commons, representing ilie whole of the United Kingdom. Is not the Government propositi more favourable? (Opposition dissent.) 1 am asking the question honestly, nad I want to gej a reasoned answer—is not the Govern menu proposal really more favourable to Ulster—to the minority in Ireland— than tho proposal of the right hon. gentleman? (Ministerial cheers and Opposition cries of "No. "J

Tiie Referendum Issue. ■ What is the question to be submitted —the Bill as it stands or tho Bill with the suggested alterations? (Mr. Bonar Law indicated the latter.) To what constituency is the appeal to bo mado? Is it to be to tho electorate of the United Kingdom as it etauds, or is it to bo —as I think was not only suggested but moro than suggested by Lord Lansdowiie and by *\lr. Balfour. some years ago—a constituency in which • there is singular and not plural voting? (Minis-, terial .cheers.) ; ■ Mr. Bonar Law: We should bo quito willing to accept it without any plural voting. Mr. Asquith: Very well. Then there is this further question—and hero I ought to address an appeal to Sir E. Carson —would Ulster accept? Sir E. Carson: Let the Prime Minister make a firm offer and I will answer him. (Opposition cheers.) Mr. Asquith: It is not my offer. It is the offer made by the Leader of tho Opposition.- (Ministerial cheers.) Sir E. Carson: It is a hypothetical question. Mr. Asquith: When you attempt to take a referendum on an issue of this kind it is. .a. complete delusion to suppose that the elector will isolate his judgment in-regard to a particular issue—(Ministerial cheers and Opposition cries of "Oh I") and that ho will not havo regard to the political situation as a whole. (Ministerial cheers and Opposition interruption.) One specific question is to be put to the Ulster electors, "Will you or will you not come within tho sphere of the new Home Rule arrangement?" And can anyone doubt that will be the question in tho mind of ovory elector? But when you are dealing with a constituency like the United Kingdom, we have seen at the byelections how many other issues come in and cut athwart tho main question. How could tho Government possibly pretend to carry on the administration of the country if an adverse decision were given on their principal Bill? •

Safeguards. Wo have provided on perfectly democratic lines safeguards which make the coercion of Ulster an , absolute, moral, and constitutional impossibility, and which secure for the new Honie Rule Government and Parliament a prospect which oujjlit to bo open to it—unless, indeed, Iho Imperial Parliament should see lit to intervene—of havi "J as the subject of Irish legislation and administration not a separato but a united Ireland, and prevent the faintest possibility in the will and judgment of the electorate of the whole United Kingdom anything in the nature of persecution,'oppression, or injustice In the face of these proposals liow can you justify an appeal to resistance? When I am asked why wo do not submit further details of our proposals, I reply this is a unique occasion. We are quite content with our Bill as it stands—(Ministerial cheers) —as a' just and workable measure. It has twice received the assent of this House, and I have no doubt it will receive that as-> sent again. (Ministerial cheers.) We believe that we have for all its main principles the authority of the electors of the.country. (Opposition laughter and Ministerial cheers.) Most of us believe, and I myself believe, that exclusion, or even partial exclusion, even temporary exclusion, is an ovil, and I believo that to be the opinion of the vast majority of the people ill Ireland of all parties and denominations. I indicated the other day my own preference for tho way in which to deaf with the matter. It was only because we found on tho road to partial and temporary exclusion an avenue opening to ii specific settlement that wo were reluctantly driven to take it. But we hiivo taken it. There is our proposal. It stands there. We do not recede from it in the least. Ido venture, in the spirit in which Mr. Bonar Law commenced and concluded his speech, most solemnly to appeal to tho House to think twice and thrice —nay, ' many times more—before they dismiss what seems to us to be the most suitable way of arriving at a.lasting settlement. (Prolouiied Ministerial cheers.)