RELIGION & DEFENCE.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1937, 20 December 1913, Page 3

RELIGION & DEFENCE.

C . MINISTERS INTERVIEWED.

A v SOCIETY ;OF . FRIENDS • v : "DEPUTATION. 1 <: . ' 1 ', J ■'■ CASE FOR OBJECTORS. ' • . '• Tho ease for tho conscientious objecL tor to-military training was stated by a deputation, representing the - Society ( of Friends iu Now Zealand, which waited yesterday upon tho Hon. W. F. Massey (Prime Minister) and the Hon. JaS. Allen (Minister of Defence). The mein- . i bers of the deputation laid before ,the ' Minister the following memorial, odoptcd by-a representative meeting of Ijhe i : 3ocietyJn London: — "There aro some 380 of ourmiombers ' and associates scattered throughout tho Dominion. It has been understood hitherto that tho religious convictions ' of your citizens wero safeguarded under the terms of your constitution. • Wo \ have heard with' deep regret that associ- > ates of our religious society have re-

cently been fined for non-registration ' and refusal to drill under tho .Defence 'Acts; .and that youths in their teens are liable to bo consigned to lengthy custody in barracks because they can- ' not conscientiously givo themselves to a military training. Wo .submit t'-au it is indefensible for civil authorities to subject a minor-to the rulo of soldiers, for a purpose antagonistic to nis borne religious training. ■ We understand that similar imprisonments have been imposed against many others, Hi the probability of- serious civil disabilities - attaching to them in after life. The Society of Friends is well known to be ' a law-abiding people, but if a choice is to to forced upon us as parents b&- \ tweon training our children for wsr, • and obeying to the best of our Midor- . standing the teaching of-Jesus Christ, ■ then the only possible answer-13 fto ono of former times;:, that, we must obey God rather than man. Whilst' recog--1 nising fully our duty as citizens of the communities of which w;e form a fart, and endeavouring to!serve, the State in national and municipal affairs, as well ns in philanthropic activities, "ivo feel debarred as Christians frqm serving in any military capacity, recognising the ■ claims of brotherhood as between all the nations. "Our religious views 011 this matter have long:been respected in Great Bri-" tain and Ireland, and it is, therefore, witK surpriso and grief that wo find your, great Dominion contravening the principles of religious freedom and the right of every man to livo according to his conscience and his faith. We had hoped that tho nations of' the v Southern Hemisphere would recognise their unique opportunity to set a peacei ful example to the rest of the world, and especially to the European ations, which aro bowed down by the crushing weight of their .armaments. Our .For- ' eign .Secretary's declaration that tho expenditure of the great countries of Europe on armaments 'threatens to submerge civilisation' should challenge all rulers to bo wiso in time, and , to give more lieod to thoso things whic.i make for unity and peaco. With great deference we- earnestly plead not only for our fellow members under your rule, but for all persons of wliat- . soever namo or creed, that thero shall bo no compulsion of conscience and no interference by tho soldier with civil , government, or education, or parental control. The grgw.th t pf character, found-, r.L °l, loyaJt.f to 1 Christ, th 3 Prfnce of Peace, on the part t

of the young' men of a nation is, ire believe, tho surest guaranteo for'that nation's security, permanence, and future well-being. \\ e are convinced that you aro not unmindful of these considerations, but wo dCsirc, with all respect, to. commend them again to your matured thought and judgment."

According to Consclenco. Mr. Alexander said that tho Friends liad been treated with great consideration, but they wished to represent the right of every man to live according to his conscience and faith, and 1 it was on behalf of thoso that tho deputation ako desired to speak. They also desired to know whether, as suggested by a Parliamentary Committee, it was intended to legislate and administer tho Act on tho broad basis, of meeting tho conseieneo of all. Also thero had been serious ppssililities of interfering with education by tho military authorities, and the deputation desired to enter its protest against any such action. . Mr. Fletcher said they hid hoped that tho Southern Countries would lead tho nay in providing a haven of rest for thoso suffering from religious disabilities and putting into practice tho ideal that righteousness alono cxaltetli a nation j and makes a nation ablo to make pro-1 gress. Hon: W. F. Massey: You don't contend that righteousness is not consistent with defence? Mr. Fletcher: In our minds, yea. Mr. Massey: Then if you arc attacked you won't defend yourselves ? Mr. Fletcher: Personally, no. We believo it is wrong to havo any part in military training and.military preparations.

PRIME MINISTER IN REPLY. THE ACT TO BE MAINTAINED. The Prime Minister said that he personally did not agree with many of the opinions that had been expressed. As to tho memorial, 110 pointed out that it camo from another country, and New Zealand could not allow the citizens of another country to interfere with the legislation of this country and with the administration of . the law, or with the country's business; Tho opinions of mcibers of tho society were entitled to al! possible respect. As to tho' recommendations of tho Joint Defence Committee; they went in the direction of providing for conscientious objectors, and ho thought that was right. Ho was not in a position to say what Parliament would do next session, but he did believo that something more, should be done tn help the conscientious objector than was provided at present. The law of the country provided for compulsory military training. It was considered in quito a numbor of sessions beforo it becamo law, and it was the duty of the Government to Administer it in strict, ccmpl ancp with its' fpirit, and that was what tho Government proposed to do. "Wo propose, also, to stand by'' the spirit of the Act," 110 added. "The people of this country and their representatives in Parliament have come to tho conclusion that we must get into a position to - defend ourselves if tho necessity should arise, and, instead of doing the youth ol the country harm, I am perfectly convinced that the administration of tho Act is doing them a great dca lof good. I believe the people of Great Britain -will come to.tho samo conclusion as wo have in this country, and that something will ,Jfe done in years to come to defend themselves, apart from the Navy. I beiieve tho time is a long way off when, as tho Scriptures say, men will beat their swords into ploughshares. Nono of us will ever livo to see it. I am against war, but we havo to meet the present position, and wo aro in a very peculiar position in this Southern Hemisphere from ,tbe defence:; n,Bintaof view*. _ ..Tho object of our Act Tibtf" offence." He could assure the deputation

that Jio was very strongly impressed with the fact that a huge majority of tho peoplo of New Zealand intended to keep the Act on the Statute Book.

A DIFFICULT PROBLEM

DEFENCE MINISTER EXPLAINS *' POSITION. The Hon. Jas. Allen said ho was as much in lavour of peace as the deputation, and Jio would help them, it xlie.y would help 'him, to try to get towarus peace. UllO Act provided lor tho religious objector, ami a good many young lellows were already exempted under tlie Act of last year. They could not control tho iUagistrates, and (lid not intend to try. .Magistrates must exerciso their judgment, and tho (Joveninient Jiad confidence m them. As to tho Act, it was a. military Act, but all the preliminary stages were civil stages. Tiio military authorities had nothing to do with tho .young fellows until they wero registered, and handed over" to them. / As to tho report of tho Joint Defenco Committee, it was 6et up to deal with tho guest-ion of tho conscientious objector, and tho report would not have been in the shape it is if he had not been in sympathy with it. If possible, something would be dono next session to (leal with tho conscientious objector. Tho law that had been placed on the Statute Book was a law under which everj l young fellow under a certain age was asked to give something towards tho State. If ho would not prepare himself to defend his country, it was not right that ho should bo let off without making an' equivalent sacrifice. Th'o problem he had to solvo was what alternative services should be provided, and lie asked tho deputation to help liim. Ho could not let such men off altogether. How could he define a conscientious objector? Wero thero not many grades of conscience— consciences that had been educated well, and consciences that had been educated badly.. Was he to put them all on the footiilg? Ho could not do it unless he asked from them something that would be an equivalent sacrifice. As to tho camps, ho had read many reports of chaplains, and he unhesitatingly, said that the Church in New Zealand had reported to him through its chaplains that the effect of tho camps on tho young- men had been good.