YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1917, 27 November 1913, Page 4

YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS.

The House met yesterday at 2.3{i p.m. LOCAL BODIES' LOANS. The Local Bodies' Loans Bill was returned by the Legislative Council with, amendments. Tiio Hon. Jas. Allen moved that the amendments be agreed to. He staled that the clauses relating to joint, special loans had been redrafted. Other amendments were ot a technical character. . The amendments were agreed to, LAND DRAINAGE. Amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Land Drainage Mill who agreed to. Some exception was laicou liv Opposition members to ;i now clause enabling a- drainage authority to enforce the clearing of water channels for a distance of ouo mile beyond the boundaries of Us district, but the. Prime Minister maintained that it remedied a defect in the existing law. POLICE OFFENCES. The Police Offences Bill was reported from tho Statutes lievisiou Committee. .Mr. J. iianan expressed regret at the alteration of a clause relating to picketing, and said that the Jslll was no longer a copy of the English Act. Tho Bill was set down for committal. COUNTIES BILL, Tiio Counties Amendment Hill was also reported from the Statutes Bevision Committee, and set down for committal. NEW BILLS. Tho AYaiigamu School Sites Amendment Hill and the Fruit Preserving Bill i (providing for State assistance to fruit canneries) were introduced bv tiovernor's ' .Message. THE LICENSING SILL, Mr. C YV. Russell asked when there was to be some finality in the mailer of bringing down Hills 1" The Prime .Minister said that these Bills had been arranged for earlier In the session. Ve:y few Hills remained to come down except the Xava'i Hill. Mr. Hussell: And the Licensing Bill? The Prime .Minister: 'Clio Unveniiwiil will consider thu crucstion of wlwU'.er

iliu Licensing Bill should be gone on with this session or next session at its ne;:t Cabinet meeting. STATE ADVANCES. On tho motion of the Hon. Jas. Allen-, the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the State' Advances Amendment Bill were agreed to. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN BILL. MAUITIMK RISKS. The Hon. F. M. B. Fisher moved that the amendments math- by tho Legislative Council in the Shipping and Seamen Amendment Bill should be agreed tn. Tho principal alteration made by the Council was tile deletion of a clause inserted in the Lower House (at the instance of .Mr. A. H. Hindmars'li) with the object of preventing shipping companies contracting themselves oiit of liability for losses incurred as a result of negligence on -tho part of their servants. Mr. Hindmarsh objected strongly to the amendment being struck out. He. reviewed tho position at length, and said that he, could not seo why tho power of the shipping companies to exempt themselves from liability should not be cut down. The peculiar risks of tho shipping trade were t,iifliciently covered' by tho exemption of liabilities duo to "tho act of God"---wrecks and so forth. He urged l that managers should be appointed to confer wdth rcpro,-. sentatives of tlio Upper House in- order to ascertain why it wished to strike out tho amendment'. The Union Company was an immensely wealthy corporation, and for that very reason tlio public should bo definitely informed why it was proposed to abandon this amendment. Mr. W. Nosworthy (Ashburton) moved that tho amendment mado by tho Legislative Council bo disagreed with. Ho said that he had . supported . Mr. Bindmarsh's amendment in the first instance, and ditl not see why tho Union Steam Ship Company should receive concessions which were not granted to any other under the British ilag. Ho intended to support the amendment mmml liv t.lin liiemliPi- I'ni- Wo! line: ton

moved by t'lio member ior Weiuiigton South. Mr. AV. H. D. Bell (Wellington Suburbs) said that ho had moved' an amendment con sequent upon that moved by .Mr. Hindmarsli. The latter member seemed to have overlooked the risk borno by tlio underwriter. At present no portion of the risk was borne by .tlio merchant, Tiie whole of it was borne, cither by the shipowner or by tli2 underwriter, lie- was laced by tlio difficulty that i'j increase, the risic borno by the shipowner would result in increasing freights. The eifece of varying the proportions of the. risk home respectively by the shipowner and the umierwritei' would be- to incrcaso the amount which the merchant was called upon to pay for the of goods. Tlio amendment which ho (Mr, Bull) had moved restored so much of the exemption clause as exempted shipowners iron l , liability in respect of lessen duo to deviation' from n voyage in order to save life of property. •AVliilo shipowners would raise freights if their liabilities were increased, it did not follow that underwriters would correspondingly reduce insurance rates if their liabilities were reduced. Ho wanted to protect the merchant, hut lie did not think the merchant should come into \M at all. ft was a question between tho shipowner and the underwriter, and if the" change proposed by Mr. Hindmarsli were made," tlio total amount that the merchant had 'to pay would be increased. The lion. F. M. B. Fisher said that as there seemed to bo a legal point involved in the question, he was go-iliß to accept the amendment and set up a conference, with the Upner House. .Mr. L. 51. Isitt (Christclwrch North) dissented.from the opinion expressed by 51r. Hell, and said, that he did not believe, flint the shipowners _ would be able to pass on tlio liability in'tlic shape of increased freights. Mr. Nosworthy's .amendment _was agreed to on the voices, and a committee consisting of Messrs. Fisher, Leo, and Hindmarsli was set up 'to draw up reasons for disagreeing with tlio amendments made by tlio Legislative Council. COMPENSATION DOUBTS. The Hon. AV. Frasor moved the second reading of tho.l'iiblis Works Amendment Bill, which, as lie explained, dealt solely with Compensation- Courts. The debate was adjourned on the motion ot the Hon. AV. F. Massey. IMPREST SUPPLY. CHANCE FOR STRIKE TALK. "RED FED' 3" CONDEMNED. At 8.25 p.m. an Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's iViessagc. 51r. J. l'ayn© (Grey Lynn) talked about tlio strike. Using familiar phrases and strange arguments, and advocating the acquisition by the State- of the coastwise snipping of the country. Mr. f. C. Webb (Grey) condemned., the Government for having failed, as he : said, to take hold of the present industrial trouble. His most striking utterance was a declaration that the special constables went about drinking in hotels, and then batoned people's heads. • i Mi.'AV. A. Veiieh (Wanganui) said lie; did not approve of tlio tactics or tlio polisy of tho Federation of Labour, but he thought Parliament should long ago have gono between the contending parties, instead of shivering in fear lest a movement towards a settlement might cause the Government to lose votes. The strike policy, he knew as an experienced unionist, to be futile. It had been tried in IS9O and found useless. He suggested that the fact of tlio largo business men having control of the employers' sido of tho strike was militating" against a settlement, for tlio reason that "it was to their benefit that the ; strike, should continue long enough to so embarrass tho small business men that they would not- be able, to trade on their "own finances, but would have to come tinder the wing of tlio big men. It was nonsenso to say that tho fault was ail on one side. He believed the Federation of Labour had made a huge blunder in adopting a .strike policy, but ho was not- prepared to admit that tlio employers were- angels. How long was 'Parliament {joins to allow the unequal battle to continue : j He behoved that anarchy should be stamped out, I but tho workers who used the argument of the brick-bat were not tho only anarchists or the worst anarchists. Tho ] worst and most dangerous anarchist.';!

wore those who belonged to t'he great (.'onimcrciiil organisations, which bad more power in Xcw Zealand linn in any other country in tho world, and they used it to tho detriment- of tho whole community. He .contended that it was within the power of Parliament to seitlr- the present trouble. Tho senret b: : .liot proposal was all very well, but it would not be eilicaciov-s to settle a trouble such .'is tho present one. He .declared also that public opinion would not be so one-sided if all tho facts of the dispute were brought to light. Ho had been shoclcod nt the inertia of Parliament, and'h." claimed that llio Government should not put pressure upon only one side in the fir/lit. Parliament was far too much under ibe influence nf iiieiq-eat commercial organisations. He sincorolv hoped that the strike woidd show the workers thai their wisest course was to organise for political purposes. What Causet} Monopolies? Mr. I''. If- Smith (Wailaki) said that the cause of (be rise of monopolistic nrganis.iiions in New /calami was 111!! so-called Labour legislation, which bad caused-such rises iif wages ilmt small men had been forced our" of business. Now, havjug established Ihcir monopolies, (lie big ni."ll charged this penplo more for comnioiliii"v !\ bad been said, that the Gov-

' eminent had not taken a stand in this trouble, hut flic fact was that they had taken a very firm stand and they were going to maintain it. Many of these troubles were caused in tho past by fho weak-kneed policy of previous llovcriiniculs, who sought peaco at any price. Jt was said that the Government here wore responsible for strikes, but in Australia there had never been so many strikes as there hud been under the Labour Governments there. Strikes had put tho Fisher Government out of office, and strikes would put the Labour Government out in Now Smith Wales. No class of men in New Zealand worked harder than tho small farmer, and no class of men were so sirmigty opposed to the so-called Labour men anil Socialists who triod to run ibis country. If men of this City or any other city wore to say at the last minute that they would not allow tho farmer's produce to bo shipped, tho farmers had made up their minds that- they would themselves sec- that it was shipped. It was outrageous that men, whoIher free labourers or not, should be molested when they went to work. There had been a good deal of talk about the Conservative Government in office having caused the trouble, but in his opinion it was a very wind thing that the present Government was in office at the time of such a disturbance.

Labour Men's Hypocrisy. Mr. 0. V. I'earco (Patca) said ho wished to reply to some of tho aspersions- cast upon tho snecial constables in Wellington by tho Red Feds, in this House. Mr. Bnssell: Point of order. Is it proper for one honourable member to speak of other honourable members of .this House as Kod Feds.? -Mr. I'earco: 1 didn't, wish, to show any disrespect to i'teni. 1 merely wished to distinguish them from other members. -".Mr. J. Payne said the obvious reason for the use'of the term, belli 'inside and 1 outside the House, was to damage the persons to whom it was applied in the eyes of tho community. llr.- Speaker said 1 it was becoming a very common thing for honourable members to refer to other members by certain terms, such as "Tories." It ivas a very undesirable practice, but it existed. Willi regard to tho term "Hod Feds" he understood that there wore people in this country who called themselves "Hod Feds, 1 ' and l who were not ashamed of tho immo. Ho did not ceo how under tho circumstances any objection could ho raised to it. Mr. Pcarcc- said the member for Wanganui had stated that tho Government had not taken action in this strike because they were afraid of losing votes. Ho would ask tho member for Wanganui, who was reputed to ho in favour of the Arbitration laws, why that honourable member did not come forward at 'the- beginning of the trouble and say so ? If ho had;, his words might have, -had good effect, it seemed to him that the' member for Wanganui was afraid of losing votes. He referred to .the hypocritical 'Statements ma-do by the Labour men about, being friends of the small farmer. Of course, tho small farmer knew how the Labour men were with him. The small farmer knew that tho Labour leaders had called out all the city workers and left tho farmers,'-' produce rotting in the trucks and on the wharves. ' Tmi they said they wanted to help tho small fanner, but the small farmer was not to bo so easily hoodw.iukcd. He contradicted absolutely the statement:! that special constables were in tho habit of being on duty under tho influence of- liquor. Re had consulted the authorities, and ho was informed that these men had behaved 'themselves.very well. He had visited tho camp frequently, and seen tho men on duty in tho streets, and ho had never seen any of tiro sTMirin tho slightest degree under the influence of liquor.' Members should be careful of their facta before getting up to make ■ aspersions upon nun who were- among the-best m Now Zealand. Mr. Ell Suggests tntsrventlpn. Mr. H. G. J'lll (Christchurch South) also discussed tho strike, relating first the admitted facts fairly accurately. lie agreed with the member for Wanganui, that a inure alteration in the arbitration laws would not cud tho trouble, but he did not believe in the policy of the general strike as advocated by 1 the Moderation of Labour. But if the State wag going to protect freo labour, then tho Stato would have to stcp_ in and fix a minimum wage. Otherwise, competition among workers lor work would bring down wages. The Government would have to fix a decent living wage. Mr. Horries: Dees not the Arbitration Court do that? Mr. Ell: Tho Arbitration Court has not given entire satisfaction. I have always been a, strong supporter of tlie Arbitration Act, but I. think it is only right that those men who wish to work outside the Court should have an opportunity of doing so. He would say to those workers, however, that they would not find their agreements so good protection as Arbitration Court awards in times when the labour market was overcrowded. This present trouble, which would cost the country hundreds of thousands of pounds, could have been avoided by a little give-and-take at tho outset. He hoped that before the session onded such powers would bo given cither to the general Government or, the local authorities as would enable them to prevent tho recurrence of such a deadlock. Avoiding Dtuisforss. Mr. H. M, Campbell (Hawke's Day) said it was altoguthcr wrong that the ■law should permit members to leave the- l'Louso when a division was coining on. Recently when an important question, as td whether :i Hill- introduced by Mr. Webb relative to the strike was before tho House, two prominent members left the Chamber and avoided voting. One was the member for Napier, who went away a little before tho division, and the other was the Leader of the Opposition, who wont out of the lobby while the bell was actually ringing. He hoped that before long tins would be niado impossible.

The Federation of Labour* . Mr. A. Harris (Wiiitcmatii) said that Ihn Federation of Labour was tho worst ciioiny that tho working peopln nf A'ow Zealand had to-day. It was time that tho Federation, look a back scat. Tho pimple of tho uumiLry had come in realise that tho intluciico of this organisation, was wholly pernicious. Mr. .Harris paid a tribute to tho special constables for the good work they had done in maintaining law and order.

Allcgoil Victimisation, Mr..!, linhcrtsoii (Otaki). said that there had been more intimidation by /the Employers' Federation titan by the Federation of Labour so far as tho present, dispute was concerned. T'he employers had said to tho men that, the work wan there but they would not ho allowed to go to it. That was a form of intimidation. There was no syndicalist organisation in Now Zealand, and lie was gl.nl of it, tie was strongly opposed to syndicalism. Mr. Young: There are, men in the I'Ydoralion teaching it. Mr. Robertson said that this might he ;:.). hut the Federation was not a syndicalist organisation, Mr. Young: it is a fundamental doetrine of the Federation. .Mr. liobertsou said that this was ridiculous. He alleged iltat employers adopted svndiealisl methods in victimising workers. Enemies ot Working Men. Mr. ('. K. Ktal'hitm (Duncdin Central) ipuiied the following passage from the new constitution of the Federation of Labour adopted last year: "The working class and the employing class hayc nothing in common, lSetwoen these two classes' the struK«l* must t;o on 'uitil

liio workers of the world organise as ;i (.'lass, tai;o possession of the earth and llio machinery of production, and abolish the wages system." Me quoted also Mv. ]'. Mickey's remark about ''tossiinj; tigreomoirtß- to hell." Leaders of this typo were, to say the least, a dangerous element in the community. Me understood that the Federation leaders drew salaries of £5 per week and were paid expenses wherever they went. 11 r. Webb said that this was incorrect. Mr. Statham said that Mr. Scrapie last year had spoken of "paralysing industry." Mr, Webb: 'flint also is incorrect. Mr. Statham said that ho. need not refer to these interjections. Mr. Jill had contended that night that it was impossible to take away tho human right to strike. It was also impossible to take away the human right to work and the attempt to do so should not no tolerated. Tho policy of tho Federation of Labour was to kill tho goose- that laid the golden egg. 'The worst enemies that working men could have were such men as were to bo found acting as leaders in the Federation of Labour. They would never nrrivo at industrial peace until they got rid of foreign agitators. Mr. Statlmm went on to remark that the oflicials of industrial organisations slioiud be working men themselves. -ur. Webb: So they all are. A Government member: "Professor" Mills! Mr. J. Hradnuy (Auckland West) referred at same length to the history ol the strike. The. man who had done most for the working mt , n j n (iris mm _ try, he said, was tho Hon. J. Millar, and what was the result? Mr. Fisher; Assassination. Mr. Bradney: They were the first to turn mm d cv ,- n . xbe seamen had, under Mr. Millar's leadership, hetfomo the best-paid class of workers in tho country. Now, what wero tho theorists who were now their loaders doing for thenir There was dissension in tho union, other unions were being formed, aim the sailors were running "a risk of dropping back into as bad a position as they were in 20 years ago. He did not believe that the waterside workers .should ever have been casual workers. 'J'he effect of the practice was to collect on the waterfront a strong body of irresponsible, who wero now mainly responsible for tho present trouble. The men should be retained as permanent hands, paid by the boards. In Defence of Arbitration. [ Mr. G. J. Anderson (llataura) defended tho principle of Arbitration, but lie- knew of course that hi tho present trouble tiio Government could jiot havo kept order. • In tho 'eighties, lean years, when times wero had. the workers strove for Arbitration, but now the men who had worked hardest for Arbitration, among them Mr. Millar, Mr. Davcy, and Mr. Ell, wero regularly opposed at their elections. Partly tho .Arbitration Court had been, brought into disfavour because of its trimmings and technicalities, some of which ho thought might be shorn off it with advantage. It would bo futile, ho thought, to try to attempt serious .reforms of our Labour laws this session, liathcr ho would suggest that tho Lahour' Bills Committees of both. Houses should bo constituted a commission of inquiry during the recess, so that they might discover tho best tribunal to be set Tup permanently to deal with Labour disputes, and to deal with them, having consideration always for tho people of the- country. As an old unionist ho could say with confidence that the idea ilmt a- secret ballot would prevent strikes was utter, nonsense. The second slajjc of the Bill was reached at 1.17 a.m. , (Left sitting,), .