LYTTELTON ELECTION.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1915, 25 November 1913, Page 4

LYTTELTON ELECTION.

PRELIMINARY MOTION. TALK OF PARTY CAPITAL, Ho was interrupted, however, by the Prime Minister, who had just arrived in the Chamber, rcio/irfg that progress bo reported, in order that tho necessary steps might be taken in connection with tho election, at Lyttelton. ■Sir Joseph Ward riskod whether any •suggested-date for tlw election had been thought of by tho Government. Mr. Massey: No. All that the Government can do is to consult with tho Electoral Department- as to a suitablo ■date, and the Department acts accordingly. I think I may say for the Minister in charge of tho Department that tho recommend.vtion of tho Department will bo accepted. Tlio motion was agreed to and Jlr. Speaker took the chair. Mr. Speaker read a telegram from the Registrar of Deaths, advising him that the death - f George Laurenson, lately member for Lyttclton,-had boon registered. Mr. Massey then moved: "That Mr. Speaker bo directed to issue a warrant to the Clork of Writs to make out a now writ for tho -election of a new membor of the House of Representatives in the room of George Lnureiisou, Esquire, deceased." Sir J. Ward- Is Curious.

Sir ' Joseph Ward asked whether a similar course was to bo followed in this election as hnd been usually followed in connection with by-elections. Ho wanted to kno-v whether it was intended to t-ako the course that was followed when the lato member for Grey, Sir Arthur Guinness,' passed away: whether a similar time would elapse before the issue of the writ, and whether similar proceedings would bo taken as wore taken on that occasion. Tho reason be asked was because it, vvns quito certain that in the interests of tho people ail election should not be precipitated or unreasonably hastened. If tliis election wero precipitated, and were held this side- of Christmas week, tii-on the people of Lyttelton would have very little time in which to seo that tliey were enrolled, and unless ample time were allowed for the revision of the roll people might not be able to oxercise their votes. On the other hand it seemed to him that it probably would bo hotter to havo the election clear of Christmas week, and to hold it after Christmas. It was Now November 24. Christmas week would begin about December 17. This left- only twenty-three days. Tliis was not very much time for tho general arrangements to bo made for an election, nnd thore was nothing more important to tho electors of a district thou that thoy should make a good selection. Ho asked the Prime Minister to make it clear for general information as to whether it- was his intention to agree that tho repeal of the- second ballot should not come into operation until after tho Lyttelton election. Thoro was a precedent on record in tho Second Ballot Act for so suspending the operation of a law. In any caso, ho proposed to move an amendment to this effect in Committee. A claneo in tlm Svcoftd flftljot Ast. jf.r<>vide4 .^ai^

Act should not apply to any election taking place prior to tho next general election after tho passing of that Act. Mr. Merries: It was passed in 1908, election year. Sir J. Ward said the object of tho clause was to prevent tho application of tho Act to a by-election. Ho hoped tho Prime Minister, when ho was replying, would say that tho second ballot repeal would not apply to tho Lytteiton election. Mr. G. W. Russell said JlO wished to congratulate the Government on tho change 0 f method adopted in this vacancy as compared with their action in tho Grey election. In that case tho delay was scandalous and disgraceful, and 1 the reason was obvious Mr. Speaker directed Mr, Russell that bo was out of order in that lino, of argument. Air. ltussell went on, however, to say that tho Government were in that election angling some time for a candidate, On this occasion tho candidate was announced two days after tho dentli of tho late member. Sir. Russell's, noisy indignation provoked laughter on the Government benches.

Premier Deals With m. Russell, TJio Hon. W. F. Massoy: I am not surprised at tins honourable) member for Avon attempting ta make party capital out of tho death of the late honourablo member for Lyttelton.. There is not a single other member of this House who would have used tho language tho honourable gentleman . has used, or would have adopt?;! that lino of talk. I say tliiiy: although tho honourable member is not on my side of tho House I am ashamed of tho conduct of tho member for Avon. (Hear, hear.) I am ashamed to sit in tho samo llouso with him. So far as what has happened in connection with the vacancy is concerned, I say that tho cirwrmstaneos are not at all parallel with what happened in the case of the death of tho member for OiHjy. Tho law provides that Mr. Speaker gives instructions for the issue of tho writ, but the law never contemplated tho death of Mr. Speaker. Tho delay, ho added, in tho Grov election had been largely duo also to tho fact that tho rolls were not in order.

Mr. Russell: Are tho Lyttolton rolls in order? Mr. Massey: I don't know. That is a matter for the Department.. Ho reminded the Leader of tho Opposition that tho Grey election took place 22 days after tlio issuo of tho writ, and tho Egrnont election also 22 days after the issuo of tho writ. Ho repeated that tho delay in the case of. tlio Grey election was duo'to tho circumstances that 11k> law never contemplated tlio death of Mr. Speaker, and that tho rolls were not ready. Tho member for Avon seemed to think that there was undue hasto in tlio issue of the writ for the Lyttelton election, but ho would point out that live days lmd elapsed between tho death of Sir. Lauronson and tho notification to the Houso that a vacancy had occurred. Surely this was not undue or unnecessary haste. Referring to tho suggestion of tlio Leader of the Opposition, that tlio election should not bo held this side of tlie_ Christmas holidays, he said it was quite impossible for him to oblige tlio honourable gentleman, becauso tho law said that tho writ must bo returned within twenty-eight days after tho issuo of the writ. He was moving that night for tho issuo of tho writ. Thai would make it- necessary for tho election to be held prior to December 22.

The Second Ballot. Regarding tho operation of tho second ballot at tho Lyttelton election, all ho coukl say was that tho Government was not considering the possibility of tho Second Ballot Repeal passing into law. They worn not taking that into account in their arrangements for .the election. They were not trying to delay tho election. They- wero acting in a perfectly straightforward way, as tlloy thought proper under the circumstances. "I am surprised;'-' ho said. "No, lam not surprised—at the adverse criticism wo have hoard on this point from tlio member for Avon." Tho motion was agreed to, and Mr. Speaker at once declared tho Houso in Committee again. When tho House went into Committee again, Mr. T. -E. Y. Seddon began to speak withdut much direct application to auy subject, and was warned that ho was indulging in -tedious reputition. Then ho began to speak about tlio Grey election, but ho was again told that ho was indulging in tedious repetition, and told to resume his seat. Ho had spoken for perhaps two minutes, , Mr. H, M'Galium was twice warned tor irrelovanc-G, and on tho second occasion ho was directed to resume llis seat. He had been speaking for perhaps one minute. Sir. H. Atmoro spbko for perhaps a minute and a half. He was warned twico for irrelevancy, and on tho second occasion ordered to sit down, Mr. 3 Colvin, who followed, Bpoko tor about a minute before being warned tnat ho was irrelevant. "Why I haven't said anything yet," he remarked in Imrt tones. lLou-3 laughter.)

A Cautious Operlng, The Hoa. J. A. Millar opened -cautiously by asking tho Chairman to pleaso teu him what was.relevant. The Chairman: Of course it is not my business to inform members of that in anticipation. Mr, Millar said that on tho question of the repeal of tlio second ballot ho claimed the right of any member of tlio .House to talk about the- sccond ballot as much as he liked. Mr.. Malcolm: Will tho lion, gentleman oxcuso me? Was ho in tlio Houso when I made my statement this afternoon r Mr. Millar: No. Mr. Malcolm said that in tlia-t case tho lion, member of course would not understand Ins action. Ho had considered it his duty to inform the Houso that, owing to tho fact that a week Shad been taken _ up already in tlio discussion 'of - this question, fro intended to oxerciso his powers under tho Standing Orders to tho utmost, in limiting further discussion. Members had met jiim, ho might say. In view of the lion, gentleman's (Mr. Millar s) standing m tho Houso and tlio inlicquelicy with which ho spoke, tho Cnairnian considered, lio was willing to hmko an ©scepfcwn hi his C aso. Members quite understood hi-a action, and ho hoped ho was taking it ivifch their goodwill. Mr. J. C-olvin (angrily): Is it, possible t-iiat oven in exceptional circumstances oiio hon. gentleman tan speak when -another cannot ? ilie Chairman: I think the lion, gentleman is quite correct in that attitude. He adaeu that he intended to assert hi-s authority to -the utmost of poworfi. Mr, J. Pavno was allowed te speak for two minutes before, after being once warned, ho was tokl to resume his scat.

"We do Not Ooncufi" Sir Joseph Ward at this juncture was permitted by tho Chairman to mako a brief statement. "1 want to mako it Quito clear," ho said, 'that upon this side of the House wo d-.i not concur or approve of the course that, you fool it your duty to follow." The Chairman: Of bourse I quite understand that, but. I understood from the lion, (iinitlinnau's remarks nhen 1 niado lay statement, and as a matter oi' fact it has been said Sir Joseph Ward: Of courso wc obey your ruling. Tho Chairman: Quito so. I nm not doing this for pleasure, I as-suro lion, members. Mr. W. A. Veitoh roso at S.I J p.m. Ho said that ho regarded tho repeal proposal as a very retrogressive step. At 8.15-Mr. Voitofi was warned that ho was indulging in repetition. lio said that ho was quite certain that a, majority of the people would not support tho .gixyipfial us in stood. 'j

Sir. J. V. Brown remarked that ho had not been present that afternoon. Government members: You should havo been I A Briof Rebellion. Mr, J, Craigio said tlmt ho had not yet spoken in tho debate. Ho had no affection for tho Second Ballot, hut considered it- bettor than the old system. After speaking for one minute and a half ho was warned that ho was irrelevant and tedious. Ho said that ho want ed to protest tho clause. Having spoken a few words- moro he was ordered to sit down. "1 don't want to deny the Chair," said Mr, Craigio, "but at tho samo timo 1 am nero representing tho pcoplo." Tho Chairman: Will tho hon. gentleman resume his seat? Mr. Craigio sat down. Mr. V. 0. Webb in his turn, had r, briof career. Ho spoke for two and a half minutes against the clause before being ordered down. The Hon. J. A. Millar now made another attempt. Ho said that bo never had supported tho Second Ballot, but would lika to know from the Govern* merit what they proposed to put in its place. He- demanded to know, for tho people lio represented, what sort of legislation they wore going to have. Personally, having studied all the systems he preferred proportional representation. Ho did not boliovo in proportional representation very ..much, but if absolute justice was to bo given it was tho system to adept, The old system might do well enough, but it afforded no protection against minority representation. Tho Chairman pointed out that th)B argument had been used ad nauseam.

Air. Millar: .is it senseless repetition if a man has rot spoken beforop Tho Chairman: Yes, Mr. Millar: Not under the Standing Orders. He added that if the Chairman's ruling was right ho would havo every man rung down in tho next Financial Debate after tho first four Speakers. The Chairman had reached for "Mny" as' Mr. Millar was speaking, and ho now pointed out that the ml© regarding tedious repetition applied either to tho arguments of a particular speaker or to those of other speakers. Mr, Millar said that according to this lino of argument as soon as a point had been made tho whole House could ho convicted, of senseless- repetition. The Chairman said .that ho had' explained to the House that ho was taking a. course tho Chairman Would not dream of taking on ordinary occasions. This was a course he was not setting up as it precedent. The debate had lasted longer than any other riob&to in tlie history of Parliament, and thereforo he had taken tip this attitude. Mr. Millar said that ho would- make it his business to let the public know that a man could not open his mouth—— Mr. Malcolm: That is not .relevant to tho question. Moro "Sudden Daaths," Mr. J. A. Qanan spoke for a little over a minute beforo ho was warned. "I did not know that any member had referred to the issues of'tho election," he remarked. Tho Chairman: Tho honourable gentleman is still irrelevant, and will resume his seat. Mr. G. Witty had a sijnilnr experience.

Dr. Rangvhiroa said that as tho representative of a iargo Maori elcctorato ho wished' to record lii-s protest against the addition of this clause to the Legislature Amendment Act. Ono minute later, on being warned* ho said that tho field had been so narrowed that it was difficult to find anything to talk about. Ho was then told to sit dow.ni. Sir. J. V. Brown and Mr. C. Parata wore also told-';to restate ■ their seats after a few brief remarks. Mr. Ngata, on a point of order, askedtho Chairman what arguments' had been used to the point of tedious repetition. Ho urged also that members had notbeen allowed so far to discuss tho repeal of the Second Ballot, and Hindi been told that they could do sa in tho no\ clause. . Mr. R. M'Calhim supported tho position taken by Mr. Ngat-a on tho ground that tho now clause had only Seen in the hands of 'members for a couple of hours. / A Wasted Week. Tho Chairman said that it was, of course, no business of his how iuombers used the timo available for the discussion of '»■ Bill. _ This Bill had been before tho Committee How for a week. . . An Oppositionist: .Not this clause. Tho Chairman said that tho Bill was now entering its Beeond week before tho House. Two hours that afternoon had bee-n devoted to tho now clause. Ho again assured lion, members that he was taking.this action purely on tho grounds ho had mentioned .that afternoon —that it appeared to him to be necessary that the deadlock which had arisen should-'bo broken. .

To-day and Tomorrow. Sir J. Ward said that in the afternoon ho had asked tho . Cliairman whether mombors would bo allowed to speak four times for ten minutes on tlio second reading of the clause*. Bo had understood from tho Chairman that they would, ' Mr. Malcolm said that this was not so. Sir J. Ward said that members had not hitherto to discuss tho Second Ballot in the Legislature Amendment Bill. Ho wished to ask whether in any future caso the second reading of a Bill would bo limited to two hours. Tho Prime Minister had indicated that the time to discuss tho repeal proposal would bo in tho second reading. Ho recognised that when tho Chairman ruled he had power, and they obeyed his ruling. At- tho same time, tho deprivation of freedom of specch was a matter that required tho gravest consideration on the part of lion. members _ opposite. If it was right today it was going to bo right to*niorrow. Destroying tho free speech of independent .representatives and tho absoluto prevention of their speaking for tho peojjlo in tho llouso was a very important (natter. Mr. G. W. Eussell spoke in a similar strain.

Neglected Opportunities. The Chairman said that tho position was that at any tiino during tho last woel;, if members bad wanted to get on to the discussion of tho second ballot proposals, they «mld havo done so by' passing clauses 0110 ulid two of tho Bill. That could havo beoii done at any time. Members could hardly coinplain that they had not had sufficient time. As to tho question of precedent, ho had taken action absolutely upon his own responsibility, because ho considered it was necessary for tho good conduct of tho business of Sic House. Ho trusted that similar notion might never need to bo taken again. Ho was quito auitent to allow members ail hour or a little moro, aftor tho scmiul reading had been passed, to debate tho question that the clatsso be a clause of the Bill. Sir J. Ward askod leave to mioto ,1 brief statement by tlvo Right. Hon. J. Chamberlm')) in the House of Cominone. Mr. Massey; What date? Sir J. Ward: 1912. Mr. Massey i Not Joseph Chnmbcr3nin. Sir J. Ward said that tho statement hod boon quoted in the Australian Parliament. Tlw statomoiit was in reference to the limitation of free speech, and was as follows"You are on a falling incline. I would say that a Bill of this kind ought in no circumstances, under 110 stress, in no extremity, be subjected to any curtailment o*f free dobat-c." Mr. Spoaker invoked. After Mr. G. W. Russell had shared .tho. ifttq of other juombors jii being.

ordered to sib down, the Htm. J. A.. Millar said that ho would like to take tins opinion of .Mr. Speaker. Bo wanted to ask him what Jio meant when ho went to the Governor and ashed forfreedom oi speech for inembors ■of the House, and camo back and s'epo-rtoti that lio had got it. it was tlio first timo that anything of this kind had happened in his experience. Air. Malcolm said that the Speaker had recently ruled that ho could not he ealled upon in such questions as those, hut ho would leavo it to tlio House io decide whether the Speaker should lio tailed in. Sir Joseph Ward asked whether tho Chairman would report that he had been ruling members out of order for irrelevancy. Mr. Malcolm: And tedious repetition. Sir Joseph 'Ward: I want to point out to my friend what tins answer will 1)0. Mr. Millar said that' 1m wanted to make a statement before Mr. Speaker. Tlia motion was agreed to and tie Spoakor was called in. Tho Chairman having reported, Mr, Millar said that ho Would like to put the position before ill© Speaker very ■clearly. He iiiid seen, things that night that ho had never seen before. Mr. Speaker". I can't hear any reflections on the Chair. "Mr. Millar said that ho did .not wish to make any, When ho was first elected tho Spoakor had reported to the Houso that- he had secured freedom of speech. Ho had never seen any previous debate in which a member who used a word mentioned by another member Was immediately ruled out foi senseless reixjiition and told to resume his seat, Mr, Masscy: T-mlwiis repetition, Mr. Miihir said that under this rilling Hot o-no tn«mber could continue his speech. Freedom of speech was absolutely denied to the House. He wished to ask whether this wa-s the intention of the Standing Orders. A closure had been applied for which, in his opinion) there was 110 authority. Mr. Ngata also spoke. - The Chairman of Committees read to the Speaker tlw statement ho ltad nmdo to members at 2.30 that afternoon.

A Prlvllcgo Abused. - The Primo Minister said that they all believed in freedom of speech,, but ho did not believe that there was & member of the I lon so who believed in tho nbuso of freedom of eptoelt, and this last ivas what had been taking plaoo within the past few days. Ho went oil to refer to what took plaoo when tho Representation Bill was before tho House in 1881. It was, true that there was no time-limit in 1881, but tlie change bad nob led to tho shortening of debates in tho Hoi:so of Representatives. Tlio Priino. 'Minister reviewed tho utterances of Mr. Speaker O'Rorlco in 1881, and of Mr, Speaker Brand in the Imperial House of Com* mo»s in :tho samo year. His point Ms, ho said, that if it was fight for Mr, Speaker .Brand to prevent aminerity obstructing tho will of a majority, if it was right for Sir. Speaker Brand to take steps to prevent a minority imposing its will on a majority, and right, tor Mr. Speaker O'lkifko and Mr. Seymour to tako such steps, then it was right that similar steps should.bo taken, ill reference to this Bjjt. ■ Mr. 3311: Not this clause.

Mr. Massey: 'I- am speaking of tho Bill generally, and tliis clause is part of tho Bill ' Rcceftt experience showed tho necessity, of bringing in same form of the closure or Ruillouiio by an amendment of tho Standing Orders dint would make such obstruction as thoyhad experienced during tho past week absolutely impossible., Sir J. Word s.a.id that- ,th:o course taken in ending tho debate on the Representation Bill in. 1881 was, in his opinion,-one that would be very generally condemned, but oven" if it Were rigl-it- circumstances had very raiitoriaK ly." altered silico then. Ho. continued on tlio lines of his statement in 'Committee that 'afternoon. Ho contended that the proper' course to follow iii dealing with a deadlock was to return to tho Houss (from. Committee) and allow Standing Order 107 dealing with "the previous question" to apply. Tho rights of members to speak upon tho second reading of tho now clause had been unwarrantably curtailed, ho contended, by tho Chairman,

Tho Speaker Rulos. Mr. Speaker: 1 have listened to a great deal that has nothing whatever to do with tho question on which I am asked to rule, and I may add it is tire usual practice, when the Speaker is asked to rule upon, a question, for mom-, hers to speak on that question A groat deal that honourable members have referred to has nothing to do with the ■question 011 which I am called Upon to rule, lam asked s:,gaiu to rule as to whether tho Speaker will interfere when tho Chairman of Committees rilled a speaker out of order for not being relevant. I may say that during the present- session I have been ealfcd into tho Chair-*—this is the fifth time—to give a ruling oil tliG same question. _On a former occasion I have made it clear that he had no choieo but to say that tho matter of relevancy rests entirely with the Chairman of Committees) and that the Speaker will not interfere. He proceeded to quote several rulings of Speakers, to uphold his own declaration of the Standing Orders, that the. Chairman's decision in Committee on a question of relevancy Was final. Also, tho Speaker would not interfere with a ruling of tho Chairman that Ml amendment was out of order, on the .ground that it was foreign to tho Bill, _ '!!«> Chairman would also ho in order in refusing to acccpt an ftine'iidiiioiifc if he thought it wjis ttfikdeftfd in a spirit of mockery. Ho Fopeatod the declaration h& had mado o?.i the. previous occasion when ho was tailed to rule on a similar question.. Wilful Waste of Time.

"Beforouco has been made," ho continued, "to tho length of time taken-ia discussing this matter before the Houso. With reference to that .1 say this:.that considering all tho circumstances and tiro time taken,_ I think tho Chairman of Committees is within his rights, in interpreting tile Standing Orders, to tli-o letter. It is the duty of tho Chairman of Committees and ilto Speaker to. seo Hhat- the business of the Houso is proceeded with with reasonable speed. ' I said on a former occasion that I would j never do anything to restrict <febat© in 1 any shape or form, but when ono cannot iiolp swing that the time of tho country is being wilfully wasted it is the duty of tho Chairman of Committees and tho Speaker to sow tliat tho waste of tiffio does not continue. Sir Joseph Ward said that with all deference and rcspeet he wished' to protest against tho statement that momhers of tho Opposition had wilfully wasted time. The Hon. J. iA. Millar asked whether ho would lie in order in discussing the second ballot on tho clause. Mr. Speaker said 3ve could not give a ruling on a question submitted to him by a. inember of the Committee, but only on a question submitted by a resolution passed by the Committee. Mombsrs Ruled Out. In Committer) again, Mr, 11. At morn and Mr. H. Poland wore both, ruled out 01 s)rder boforo the supper adjournment. After the simper adjournment, Mr. 11. G. Jill made two elierls to make a speech. Ho was warned onco that he was guilty of tedious repetition, aiwl a second time ordered to resume his soat. Ho tried once more, but was again ordered to sit down for the some offence, ■after having been once wnmicd. Mr. A. 11. Hindmars'h, after being ouce warned, resumed his seat voluntarily; A Division at Vast. Tho Committee went to a .division at 10.5 p.m. Tho clause was read a second time by 30 votes to 26. * Following was tho division, list

Ayes (86): 8011, J. Bollard, It. T. Bollard, Bradnoy, Buick, Campbell, Goates, Dickeon, Escott, Fraser, Guthrie, •Harris, Herdman, Horrios, Hunter, Lee, Slander, Massey, A. K. Newman, B. Newman, Nosworthy, Okey, Pearce, Pomare, Reed, R. H. Rhodes, T. W. Rhodes, Scott. F. H. Smith, Statham, Sykos, G. M. Thomson, Wilkinson, Wilson, Young. Noes (26) t Atmore, Brown, Buxton, Carroll, Colvin, Craigie, Davey, Ell, Glover, Hanan, Hindmarah, MfCallum, Mac Donald, Ngata, Parata, Payne, Poland, Rangihiroa, Robortson, Russell, • Seddon, R. W. Smith, Voiteh, Ward, Webb, Witty. Palre. 'Ayes: Anderson, Allen, Buchanan, Hine. > , Noes: Wilford, Buddo, Forbes, Isitt.

A Spirit of Mockery. The Hon. A. T. Ngata immediately moved that progress bo reported. Mr. Malcolm ruled that considering all the circumstances he must hold that the motion was tendered in a i spirit of mockery, and was therefore out of order. (Laughter.) Mr. Ngata i Then I movo that you 'do leave tho Chair. Mr. Malcolm ruled this motion out of order for tho same reason. The question then became, "That the clause be added to tho Bill." On this quostion speakers were allow!' more latitude than had been given on tho previous question. Speeches wore made by Messrs. Ngata, Te Riyngihiroa, Payne, Russell, Hindmarsh, and Hanan. At five minutes to 11 the Chairman reminded the speakers that they had teen repeating themselves and other a great deal, but he saul that before rigidly enforcing ' the Standing Orders on this stage of tho debate no would allow a few more speeches to be Mr* P. C. Webb _ denied that there had been any bargaining between himself and the Liberal Party in regard to the Grey election.

To Postpono Operation. Sir Joseph Ward, at 11.27, moved the following addition to thd clause: Jriovided that such repeal shall not apply to any election which takes place prior to the next general election after the passing of this Act." • The amendment was not debated, and a division was taken on it at 11.35 p.m. The amendment was defeated by 34 votes to 25. Mr. G. W. Russell moved the addition of the following proviso:—"Provided that this section shall not lome into force until March 1. 1915" (after the next general election). The Committee divided on the amendment withijut debate: The amendment was defeated by 34 votes to 24.. Mr. H. G. Ell moved to add a proviso to the effect that the clause should not come into force until a referendum of the electoT3 had so decided, and that the Governor-in-Council make regulations for the taking of the referendum on the day of next general elec-. tion. 1 This amendment went to a division without debate, and it was defeated by 34 votes to 20. At 0.45 a.m. the attendance fell away until only a bare quorum was present.

Sir J. Ward complains, Sir J. Ward said that New South Wales had found it necessary to adopt the Second Ballot Act, and in every advanced country it had been found necessary to suggost something of the kind. Ho Tecogmsed that they were being controlled irrespective of the Standing Orders, and under the ancient custom of O'Rorke and Seymour, but not quite in the same way. He urged the Prime Minister to state what the electoral proposals of the Government were. I'he Prime Minister had recently promised to do' this upon the second reading of the clause. The Prime Minister: I told you the Government would bring down an Electoral Bill next session, and the House would have an opportunity of putting in anything it thought proper. The Hon. A. T. Ngata said that the Prime Minister had found himself ih the position' of not knowing what to substitute for the Second Ballot, i A division was taken,at 0.59 a.m., on the motion that the clause stand part of the Bill, and it was carried by 33 votes to 23. An amendment was moved by Mr. H. G. Ell to give the Representation Com; missioners a wider margin in computing the voting strength of areas, for the purpose of fixing electoral boundaries — that is to say, that the boundaries might include a large number over or under the number required than iB now permitted. The .amendment was accepted by the Prime Minister, and Agreed to on the voices.

The Country Quota. Mr. H. 6. Ell moved an amendment to reduce the country quota from 28 to 15 per cent. Dr. A. K. Newman supported the amendment, and asked the Prime Minister to give the matter consideration. It was a burning question in the cities, where the quota was accounted a very grievous handicap. Sir Joseph Ward said ho was opposed to reduction of the quota. A division was called on the amendment, at the instance of Sir Joseph Ward, although he voted against it. The amendment was defeated by 41 votes to 14. The discussion on amendments, moved by Opposition members was still in progress when we went to press. (Left sitting.)