AT PUBLIC COST.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 1883, 17 October 1913, Page 7

AT PUBLIC COST.

CAPT. SEDDON'S RESIGNATION,

QUESTIONS IN THE HOUSE.

SIR JOSEPH WARD ANGRY,

THE TAXPAYERS' VIEWPOINT.

A brief, but at times animated, discussion took plnco in tho House of Representatives yesterday in regard to the recent resignation of Captain R. J. S. Seddon, who returned to tho Dominion' about Boven weeks ago, after a period of military training in England. On returning, Captain Seddon was appointed area officer at Paoroa, but the announcement of his appointment was followed by the nows or his resignation. , An Official Statement. The matter has been previously menitiqned in tho House. On October 8 the Minister of Defence was aeked by Mr. Okoy whothor ( in sending a colonial officer Homo lor military training, any stipulation was made that the officer should serve in the.Doniiliion Forces for a stated torm of years, or whether an officor was at liberty to resign, his. office immediately after tho Dominion had boon to tho expense of his Home training. Mr. Allen replied: "Defence Regulation 121 provides aB follows—'Officers of tho Now Zealand Staff Corps and Royal New Zealand Artillery sent out of tho Dominion for'training at tho expense of tho Government will sign an agreement giving an undertaking that they will not rosign tlieir commissions for a period of five years after their return to New Zealand. This was gazotted, and came into force on May 5,. 1911. Four of tho officers sent Homo prior to this date signed such an agree; mont. From May 6, 1911, being date of the gazetting of tho regulations, agreements liavo been signed by four of the officers now serving abroad, and forms-of agreement bavo beenisent for signature to live other officers undergoing training in Great Britain and India." . information Sought. Yesterday's discussion took plaoa when an opportunity was afforded, for tho first time for a fortnight, of discussing Ministerial roplies to questions. Earlior in the afternoon the Houso, on tho motion of Mr. R. Scott (Otago Central), ordered a return showing:— (1) The date on which Captain Seddon left Now Zealand for Britain for tho purposo of undergoing training in connection with the ,Defonco system, together with a copy of tho agreement (if any) entered into by Captain Seddon'; (2) the date on which Captain Seddon returned to New Zealand, together with information as to the duty to whioh ho was posted on his return; (3) tho actual time Captain Soddon served' on his return to New Zealand; (4) tho time' Captain Soddon was off duty or on leavo while in Britain; (5) tho total amount paid to Captain Soddon from the time he left Now Zealand, until he resigned, such amount to include pay, allowanoes, and travelling expenses; and (6) tho <iato of Captain Seddon f resignation. > An Accusation. When questions were beings debated, Sir J. Ward said that it appeared to him that some members on the other side of tho Houso woro' putting questions and motions on the Order Paper iii order to create a wrong impression. Ho had nothing to do with the circumstances under which Captain Seddon Ind resigned, and knew nothing about them. Ho was interested in a question or which notice had boen given by a mem< ber of tho House. The answer, it seemed to him, conveyed a suggestion, that thero was some favouritism in con-, nootion with this matter when ho (bli 1 J. Ward) was Minister of Defence. He wanted to say that up to and for months after, tho time that Captain, Seddon left New Zealand, no perman-l ent officor who had been in tlio rorco for any length of time, was ever t asked to sign an agreement. The only officers who had signod an agreement wero re< f erred to in tho question but not correctly or fairly. Tho officers who had signed were Messrs. White., Robertson, ■ Barton, and Grant, who signed on for a year, bocauso it was a condition of | their appointment that thoy should do | so. Neither Colonol Bauchop, Colonel j Abbott, nor anyone else, prior to tho gazetting of the pewlations, which mndo 'it ohliga-l tory 'to do' so, had over signed an agreement. The regulations wera brought down by limiself, and not by, tho present Minister of Defence. An}* one reading what tlio honourable gen-; tleman had said would imagine that lia (Sir Joseph Ward) had omitted to pro-j vide for a matter of this kmd.- The. regulations, did (not .como .'"to forco until some time after Captain Seddor. loft this country. 1

Alleged Inspiration. "Has it oomo to this in this coum, try," continued tlie Leader of the UpM position, "that wo are. going t<> find that a man who at one tamo was Primal, Minister of this country is, through the: members of his family, to continue to bo tho subject of some form of attacK for over, because tliat is wliat seems to me to bo tho object of this question-, to convey a wrong impression, and thoj obiect o'f tho answer -is to convey at wrong impression. Ho would u ' K^ r ": tako to say that tho member of tha' House who had asked for a return ovt the subject had not prepared the re-i turn himself. m , . , . Mr; Noswortih'y: That is not a faifl thing to say. _ Tho Prima Minister (angrily): Do yotf suggest that I ' Sir Joseph Ward: I did not refer id tho honourable gentleman. That is opinion. . j Mr. Scott: Your opinion Is wrong. , Sir Joseph Ward: Tlie fact ns "m"! Scott (addressing the Speaker)^

I think tho right honourable gentlemnil should tako my assuranoo that the ques< tion was prepared ly myself. ! Sir. Joseph Ward: The notice of mo< tlo Mr. Scott: Tliat is what lam refepi ring to. Sir J. Ward:' Who inspired it? Mr. Scott: I wrote tlio notice myselp in tho Whips' room without nnyoncS else being present. An Assurance Aouepted. Sir JoSepli Ward said that he accept-* ed this assuranco. Ho went on to con< tend that both tho Minister's answer tol Mr. Okoy's question and Mr. notice of motion, going on record quitrf independent of anytime thoy were do-j ing at tho moment would convey a sug-< gestion that something unfair or sotoe* tiling improper had been done.

A Ministerial Denial. Tlio Hon, James AUen wns not in thd House when tlio Leader of tho Opposition was speaking. Returning soon afterwards 110 said that ho understood that Sir Joseph Ward had' suggested that tho question regarding Captain Scddon had ueon inspired by somebody or another. "I do not biow," said the Minister, "whether ho intended to imply that I had inspired it. If so, I give tlio statement a most omphatic denial." It was, ho continued, a fair question to ask, and one that tho Houeo £houl<s,

have . ail answer to. The regulations mentioned wore gazottcd. on May 5, 1911.' - Sir Joseph Ward, who had been out •while tho Minister was speaking, ro■turncd at this stage. Mr. Allen' repeated that ho understood. that the Leader of tho Opposition had mado somo suggestion that Mr. Okoy's question with regard to officers going Home and the motion for a return had been inspired by him (tho Minister). Sir <T. Ward: I don't suggest it was, by you. . Mr. Allen: To relievo tho lion, gentlomari's mind lot mo say that I havo not inspired either of them. Tho question, he added, was a fair one. Tho Houso had a right to ask whether officers, ■when the Dominion bore the cost of ■their passages Homo and back again and the cost of their training in Bng land, .were..under no obligation to th' Dominion when they came back. Befori May 5, 1911, no regulations on tho sub ject had been mado. • Sir J. Ward: I brought tho regula tions do-wn myself. i

Tiona utnvji j Mr. Allen-: Quite so. They w«ro absolutely right and proper regulations. Prior to the gazetting of the regula-tions,-he continued, officers sent to England for training gavo no guarantee to continue in tho Service. The regulations provided for an agreement, and since they were issued most of tho officers had signed an agreement. Some had gono without signing an agreement, and agreements'had been sent _ after them, which they, would bo required to sign. - ■ . Sir J. Ward said that the regulations Srere not in force when Captain Seddon Iwent Home. . A Regrottablo Omission. Mr. Allen: I think it a great pity that tho regulations were not in fore© before any officer went Home. Sir J. .Ward: I brought it down my- ' self' ■ ' ' . Mr. Allen said that it was' not right that .the taxpayers should pay for tho training of a man without getting some service from him. ■ ' Sir J. Ward, in personal explanation, contended that the Minister's answer to Mr. Okev's qucstion_ was misleading. Ho mentioned again that four officers had signed, an agreement ■ .to serve for a" year, before the regula--.tions were gazetted, because it was a Scondition of their appointment, that they should do so. He had been averse to any officer \vlio had gono Home for training Retiring from the sorvico, and 'had brought down regulations to guard , against it. ; Mr. Allen: It is curious that four officers who were sent y Home prior to r the date of the regulations were asked to sign an agreement. Sir J. /Ward: Because it was a condition of appointment.

Mr. Allen: It is Amfortunate that it was not a condition of everybody's appiintment. He'again remarked that Mr. Okey's question and the reply made : to it were perfectly ' straightforward. ..The Minister also stated that five offi- ' fcers who were now undergoing training had signed no agreement. Sir Joseph Ward: .When did they goP Mr. Allen: Two of them went after I Came into office, I am, sorry, to say. 'Agreements have been sent after'them. The other three went Home before I •tame into olfic. A Vigorous Denunciation. Mr. W.-Nosworthy (Ashburton) said lhat he know of this matter before it was mentioned by; Mr. Okey, and had intended to bring it up. It seemed to him absurd that officers should go Home, receive the benefits of a military training in'the Old Country at the expense of the New Zealand taxpayers, and then come back .and coolly resign their, positions. ' ' Sir Jopeph Ward said that he knew ■'nothing about the circumstances. Mr. Nosworthy said that it reflected not- the slightest credit on those who 'did it. Mr.'M'Callum: Two sides to it! Mr. Wilford: Must have been scared J of this Government. ; Mr. Nosworthy said that the Leader of the Opposition had referred to the relatives of a former Prime Minister. He thought that this country had been extremely .good to: - every one of them. •"And when we get an, illustration like Sthis," he continued, "of an individual of the family receiving all the money he has had from this country and then coming back and treating the country as he ha/ treated it, it doesn't reflect much credit on the name that has been •referred to as'being of such benefit to this country." Mr Okey's Question. Mr. Okey was not in the House when Sir. Josenh Ward made his accusation about "inspiration." When the matter was mentioned to him later, .Mr. Okey, .Vmado the following' statement: —"I did •iiot consult anybody about it, and no one suggested it to me. I saw that 'Mr. Seddon had resigned, and I asked 'the question, not mentioning any names, ijust to find, out if anv arran&ementf had been made when these officers were toeing sent Ho/ne."