TEACHERS' SALARIES.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1859, 19 September 1913, Page 4

TEACHERS' SALARIES.

THE GOVERNMENT PROPOSALS,

OPPOSITION NOT PLEASED,

Tho Hon. JAMES ALLEN Baid that he thought it right that the House should know what tho Government proposed in tho Education Amendment Bill. He had already indicated that next year a much larger measure would be brought down,' dealing with the questions of staffing and salaries, and, he hoped, with superannuation. It was not possible to deal with these very large questions this year, but ho had promised that an amendment would bo mado in tho law which would give something to teachers this year. • He was glad to say that ho was in a. position to do more than ho had promised. In accordance with his promise, increments would- be increased from £5 to £10, so that a teacher might reach his full salary in half the time that it took under the existing law. Of a total of 3212 teachers, 2434 would be affected by this amendment, and would got annual increases of £10 instead of £5. Tho annual outlay involved was £11,940. The increase would date from January 1 next year. One other increase had been provided for by regulation—an increase in the salaries of assistants in training .colleges. Then there, were, two further proposals in the Bill which ho hoped tho Houso would accept, and which would go rather further than he had promised. The first proposal ' as increase the minimum salary in Grade 1 from £90 to.£loo. There would bo no more teachers beginning at £90. Then he proposed—this could be done by regulation —to increase the minimum allowance to probationers. Next year the Government proposed to deal with the larger question of teachors salaries (primary and secondary), and with the question of superannuation. rhe increased allowances to probationers would cost £1270 per annum. This Bill would not affect. . staffing, but honourable members wn(> knew anything about tho Education . Act Would recollect that tho present legislation provided for a gradual increaßO in staffing, which could bo carried ou» by regulation. Under the present law the staffs were increased two or three years ago. No furthor increaßO had been mado since then. He had now under consideration this question or staffing so far as tho present la\v would allow them to go. Although ho had not yet arrived at a definito determination ho hoped, in about a fortnight, to make some definito announcement as to the increases of staff that could be mado by regulation.

Members' Views. SIR JOSEPH WARD said that the measure would be received by members of the teaching profession with interest. At the same time his personal view was that it would have been better to brrng down a comprehensive nieasuro this session. Tho Bill before the House was piecomeal legislation. The present remuneration of teachers was inuch tco low, particularly; _in view of the 111Cr Mr? d (Napier) said that ho was glad something was to bo done for tho teachers, but regretted that tho increases were not to take effect until January 1. Ho urged that instead 'tho increases should tako effect as from January last. Be claimed that the Minister's proposals were based upon a Bill which he (Mr. Brown) introduced earlier in tho Bession. Mr. .G. M. THOMSON (Dunedm North) expressed a hope that tho Houso would" keep the education question clear of party. Ho said that two of the Minister's proposals were based upon suggestions from himself, and not upon Mr. Brown's Bill. JXr. Brown: You don't know what was in my Bill. Mr. D" BUICK (Palmorston,North) said that. ho would not have spoken ,but for the crrnlo and self-complacent specch made by tho member for Napier. Ho asked what tho party to which Mr. Brown belonged had done for tho teachers during tho past 21 years? Mr. G. LATJRENSON (Lyttelton) said that Mr. Buick displayed utter and denso ignorance. Fourteen years ago the average teacher's salary in tho Dominion was £99. To-day it was £140. Tho chango was the work of the. Liberal party. : Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) expressed Tcgret that tho beer duty had not been raised in order to provide funds -with which to incroaso the salaries of teachers. Tho men and women who most of all needed better pav were those who were earning from £150 to £200 a year. - These tcachers woro scattered round the and wore -doing a vast amount of useful work. There was no doubt that tho Liberal party had done a great deal for the teachers. , Mr L. M. ISITT (Climtchurch North) said that ho wotild have hailed with great gladness a threepenny increase iii tlie beer'duty. * He contended that tho Bill introduced by the member for Napier had stirred np tho Government in regard to school teachers' salaries. Mr. H. POLAND (Ohinemuri) asked whether the Bill before the Houso was a copy of the Hill introduced by the nlember for papier.

Apportioning Credit. Mr. D- BUDDO (Kaiapoi) said that the question Of raising teachers' salaries was not one for any particular Government. The standard of oomfort in tlii« mi othor countries inoreniwL fioat

of living increased, and it was necessary to correspondingly increaso salaries. The Liberal party had raised teachers' salaries three times, and nud established superannuation. Mr. Guthrie: Who made it sound? Mr. JJuddo: Tho taxpayers of this country. Mr. Guthrio: Not at your instigation, though I Mr. Buddo denied that any particular Govornment was entitled to credit in a matter of the kind. : Tho discussion was continued by Messrs. J. H. Bradney and J. Payne.

A Payment on Account,

Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) said that under tho Bill many teachers in the Dominion would get little or no benefit at all. At best it was a mean dole, and given grudgingly. It was a good thing that they had got so much. Tho present position in regard to uncertificated teachers was a disgraco to this country. Small increases in the taxation on big estates and on incomes over £2500 would mako it possible to do justice to tho teachers within twenty-four hours. Tho Government was not going to do justico to tho teachers in this Bill. It was only a payment on; account. The maximum grades would have, to be raised, and that substantially. Party Capital. Mr. D. H. GUTHRIE (Oroua) said that the importance of tho subject fully warranted the time spent upon it that afternoon, but that he was very much surprised at the trend that the discussion had taken, and tho attempts that had been mado to make party capital, Mr. Hanan: Who started it? Mr. Guthrio: Tho member for Napier, decidedly. He attempted to show that what the Minister has done he did at the point of the sword. I absolutely and distinctly deny it. "Government members as well as Oppositionists," Mr. Guthrie continued, "had received letters from school teachers, and members on tho other side had no right to arrogate to themselves tho title of 'the teachers' friond.' " It had been in the mind of tho Minister from the beginning of the session to grant better salaries to teachers, but he had waited until ho knew what provision he could affordto make this session. When ho and his friends were in Opposition, Mr. Guthrio continued, thoy did not criticise the then Minister for Education when he attempted to do something for the teachers, but assisted him to the best of their ability. The member for Hutt had shown by his references to uncertificated teachers that he knew very little of the subject.

Mr. Wilford said that what he had Baid was that it was a disgrace to the country that there should be uncertificated teachers.

Mr. Guthrie said that many of tho uncertificated toachers were on the point of obtaining certificates.. It was ftitilo on the part of mombers on tho other sido to make party capital out of this question.

Mr. Brown contradicted tho statement that he,had endeavoured to make party capital out of the question before the Houso.

Not Astonished. Mr. C. E. STATHAM (Dunedin Central) said that he was not going to say that he was astonished at what the member for Christcliurch North had said. Ho was never going to bo astonished any more at anything said by that inombor. It was interesting to know that Mr. Isitt was still working in harinony with tho membor for Napier. ih9 raomber for Christcliurch North had mado a most ungenerous speech.

Mr. G. W.., RUSSELL (Avon) said that in Ms opinion' party feeling had been brought;-into the discussion by members on both sides. One cffect of tho Bill would be that while other public servants would got increases in salary as from April 1, 1913, teachers, would not get their increases until January 1, 1914. He urged the Government to . "'withdraw this tinkering measure and deal with the whole question comprehensively." Mr. J. H. ESCOTT .(Pahiatua) said that he was one of the first members in the present Parliament who had brought up tho question of increasing teac'hors' salaries. The "concentrated demand for redress" of which the member for Avon had spokon explained tho presont volubility of the Opposition in regard to tho necessity of increasing teachers' salaries. Tho Bill introduced by the member for Napier had neither been printed nor produced. Mr. Brown had simply announced tho title of the Bill and it had gone no farther. .1 Other members who spoke were Messrs. G. Witty, R. M'Calfum, R. W. Smith, and G. W. Forbes. . Mr. A. HARRIS (Waitemata) said that tho provisions of the Bill had been approved by the New Zealand Educational Institute. Mr. Allen: Less thali this! SIR WALTER BUCfIANAN regretted that there had been so much discussion on party lines: If all this talk had oonio irom an Opposition which, when in power, had given favourable consideration to the requests of tho teachors, then thoy might have had somo solid foundation for condemning tho Government. Was it not a fact that tho last request of the Teachers' Instituto had beon denied by the then Government ?

The Minister 1 In Reply. Tho Hon. JAS. ALLEN, in replying, said that ho regretted the line of argument which liad been take.i by tho Opposition. Ho would resist the temptation to enter into a discussion on those lines. All he had to say was that ho had lived a long time m New Zealand, and had given his services ungrudgingly in tho "cause of education. He thought he could leave the teachers to judge how much reality there was in the remarks of the Opposition. The teachers knew him to bo their friend. Ho would deny the remark mado by the member for Avon that no hope was given for further advances. Ho must know that statement to be inaccurate. Ho know that the increments wero increased from £5 to £10. In regard to the demonstrations inado by teachers and their friends, might he not say that ho deemed it a complimont to the present Administration that they did make such a demonstration?

' Mr. Harris: They knew it was no use making it before. Tho Minister added that members askod why tho surplus, every year could not bo used for tho teachers. If lion, mombers were prepared to give up tho votes for roads and . bridges and for defence and other matters he would bo roady to give moro money to the teacliors. Ho would throw that out to them as a challenge. Mr. Forbes: Increase your land tax. Mr. Allen: Didn't I do it last year? One member has already admitted that there 'has been an increaso of £81,000. In the graduated land tax there was ail increaso of ovor £30,000, and the increased land and income tax this year would mean £40,000 or £45,000. When it became necessary ho would not hesitate to urge the Government to search for other methods of raising money. He did not see any necessity to refer the Bill to the Education Committee, as it was a policy measure and lmd been agreed upon by Ciibinet. With regard to tho question about salaries being reduced through falling attendances ho would say that this had already been, dealt with as he had extended tho time within which tho clause operated from two to three years. Tho teachers \verc protected, for this year. Then the. hoii. member for Hutt had said tho uncertificated teachers wcro a dis"raco to the country. " Mr. Wilford: I did not say that. The Minister proceeded to defend the uncertificated teachers. He wanted them to Know that thero was a man who deemed them to ba a. disgroce to ike Dominion. Ho ilifliateii did

not believe that. Every commendation was to .bo given these .uncertificated teachers lor their help and aid. Mo would also refer to tho uso bv tho member for Hutt of the word "don't-carcd-ncss" about teachers. It was a libel upon the teachers' profession to say that they don't qare about their work. Jlen wlio alleged this were the greatest enemies the teachers lmd. As for piecemeal legislation, was not all legislation piecemeal ? He granted this was piecemeal legislation and would bo amended and improved next year. Tho teachers were perfectly prepared to wait. The cost of increasing tho salaries from £90 to £100 per year was £2200 and the total cost of tho increases proposed was £16,617; A Personal Explanation. In a personal explanation Mr. Wilford stated that ho had not said the uncertiticated teachers wero a disgrace to tho country. "What ho had said was that it was a disgrace to tho country that thero were uncertificated teachers. Tho Minister for Education had twisted his words intentionally. On a point of order Mr. Wilford was obliged to .withdraw tho word intentionally. Mr. AVilford also had to withdraw the words "adept twister," as applied to tho Minister. The Bill was read a first time immediately after the House resumed at 7.30 p.m.

FIRST READINGS. The Rangitaiki Drainage Amondment Bill, tho Hauraki Plains Amendment Bill, the Beor Duty Amendment Bill, tho Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill, and the Shipping and Seamen Amendment Bill wore also read a first time.

A LOCAL BILL. ,The amendments mado by the Legislative Council in tho Dunodin Drainage and Sewerage Amendment Bill wero disagreed with. Mr. T. K. Sidcy (Duncdin South), Mr. C. E. Statham (Dunedin Central), and tho Hon. J. Allen were appointed a committee to draw up reasons.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' DAY. A CHERISHED PRIVILEGE. The Hon. W. F. MASSEY moved that on and after Wednesday, September 24, Govormuent business take precedence on Wednesdays. In support of the motion ho pointed out that tho time had arrived whon it was customary, and indeed essential, that Wednesdays should be taken for Government business. Everybody knew that thoy had a sufficiently lengthy Order Papor to keep ,the House occupied for two months at least. Mr T. K. SIDEY (Dunedin South) reviewed tho last twelve sessions, and from figures which ho quoted he sought to show that undor tho Reform Government this session the number of days that had been availablo for private mcmbors' business had been lesß than in any session of tho Seddon or Ward Administrations. Only four days had been actually available. Yet when tho Primo Minister had been on tho Opposition side of tho Houso ho had always protested vehemently against any encroachment on private mombers' days. SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) endorsed tho remarks of the member foT Dunedin South. Evidently tho Primo Minister now recognised the difference between responsibility and irresponsibility. It would bo interesting, however, to know whether in any previous session two Imprest Supply Bills end the Financial Statement had been brought down on private members' days. Mr. Massey: It. was absolutely necessary. ' r. !... ' Sir Joseph Ward said he Wished to point out that some very good reforms had oome about through private members' Bills. 1 ,

Mr. Massey: Hoar, hear. Sir Josoph Ward said a bad precedont, a most dangerous precedent, was being sot up if private members were to havo no opportunity of putting Bills before tho Houso. Mr. Massey: You must havo brim reading somo of our speeches. (Laughter.) Sir Joseph Ward said there was one private member's Bill on which ho wished to vote —tho Distress Limitation Bill.

Mr. Massey: You will probably get that.

Sir Joseph Ward said lio was glad to hear this. Ho would protest again against tlio action of tho Government in taking away privato members' days, and suggested that Parliament could, if necessary stay in session for a month or so longer. The Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) joined in protesting against the reduction of private members' privileges. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Chrisrtchurch North) also opposed tho motion. The Hon. W. F. MASSEY, in reply, said that tlvrco privato members' days hacl been occupied by the Address-in-Iteply Debate, a.nd two by tho Financial Debate. Over the loss of these fivo days 'ho had no control. Unfortunately ho had to bring down 0110 Imprest Bill on a Wednesday owing to the exigencies of tho Public Service. On one doj tho Opposition 'had been so interested' in the Westport Harbour Committee's report that they carried the discussion right over into tho evening; and the day previous members had been so anxious to talk that he could not stop them. He claimed 1 , therefore, that ho was not ircsponsible for tho loss of tho Privato Members 1 ' Bills. One Private Member's Bill, that of the member for Wellington South, ivould probably be takon .up by tho Government, and ho would look into the Bill of the member for Kaitir poi, tho Lights on Vehicles Bill, becauso ho thought tho tiimo had arrived, -with tho growth of motor traffic, when all vehicles should carry lights. The motion was agreed to on tho voices. .

THE LABOUR BILL. "pKo Industrial Conciliation a.ndl Arbitration Bill (tlio Hon. W. P. Massey) was read a second time pro forma and •referred to tho Labour Bills Committee.