GARLICK INQUIRY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1851, 10 September 1913, Page 8

GARLICK INQUIRY.

MEDICAL EVIDENCE. A PUGNACIOUS WITNESS. TESTIMONY OF EXPERTS. The Committee of Inquiry set up by tho House of Representatives to investigate the appointment of Mr. Royd Garlick as Director of Physical Education for the Dominion met again yesterday afternoon and evening, the Hon. J. A! Millar presiding. A Specialist With Children. Dr. Hard\yick Smith, medical superintendent of the Wellington Hospital, said that ho had known Royd Garlick for five years, ever since the witness was connected with the Hospital. Ho was very pleased with the work .of Garlick, who adopted the same methods as tho best physical culturists at 'Home. He had had excellent results in cases of limb affections —especially fractures — and also heart cases. The witness had often watched Garlick when he was at work where a certain knowledge of anatomy was needed, and ho had almost always been correct. He had also a very good superficial knowledge - of physiology. His breathing exorcises were tho most scientific which the witness had ever como across. He had been especially good with children. Children with adenoid faces, bent backs, hollow chests, and similar symptoms had "not seemed tho same after a month or two in Garlick's hands. He could not praise Garlick's work in this direction too highly.

To Mr. Sidey: Garlick was an excellent masseur, but he was not a masseur alone. In August, 1912, the witness had written to the Minister, stating that he thought, Garlick would take the position of director for a year at least. He had also advised the Minister to set up a committee to consider the scheme, and recommended that Garlick should be a member of the committee. He considered Garlick a very suitable man for tho position of director. He took into account not only his skill as a masseur, but his knowledge of anatomy and physiology, and his organising ability, as shown by his work as New Zealand representative of the Australasian Massage Institute. "Unbounded Confidence." To > Mr. Herdrnan: . Garlick had not been anxious to take tho position, and the witness had tried hard to persuade him to take it, as he was just the man for it. He had unbounded confidence in Garlick. The children wore the chief asset of the nation, and it was essential that there should bo someono at the head of the scheme who possessed, just such qualifications as Garlick had. He considered Garlick a man of very high- character, who had always been found absolutely correct in his dealings with tho medical men of the city. To Mr. G. M. Thomson: Ho did not think it was necessary for a medical man to he appointed to the position. With tho assistance of the medical inspectors, Garlick was fully qualified to hold it.

To the chairman: He had never seen Garlick at work with children, but he had seen the results, and he was relying on these. He thought there ought to be more than four medical inspectors. A physical culturist who was not a medical man would be able to diagnose with ease common ailments, such as adenoids. It was the more obscure-ailments which would have to' be'3'eteeied by the medical inspectors. He had never been asked by Mr, Allen to persuade Garlick to tako the position, but Garlick had come to him .on his own initiative.

To Hon. James Allen: He had been clinical assistant in tho orthopoedic and gymnastic department of one of tho largest hospitals in Great Britain, and also had a largo experience in tho treatment of children. There was a good deal of rubbish in the statements that disease could bo caused by the faulty carrying-out of exercises, lie considered Swedish drill wis of secondary importance in tho physical training of children. The first and most essential thing to he taught was. correct and natural breathing. He knew Garlick's breathing exercises, and thought 'them the most scientific, ho had ever known. They could not do harm to the children, as improper breathing exercises might do. Ho had put Gnrlick on to heart cases at the hospital, and the results were excellent. Garlick had also treated adenoids, curvature of the spine, and respiratory troubles, with uniform success. Garlick was quite competent to deal with special cases classified by the medical inspectors, and to teach his instructors how to deal with them. N Not tlis Minister's Agent. To Mr. Wilford: Prior to the conference lie had not been acting as Mr. Allen's agent to persuade Garlick to take tho position. He could not say whether he discussed the matter with Garlick.

Mr. Wilford: Were you not,'prior to tho conference, which took place in September, acting as Mr! Allen's agent m negotiations .with Garlick?—"l cannot say. Ido not. remember."

Hero is a letter you wrote to the Minister on August 19. You. wrote: "I have spoken to Air, 116 yd Garlick on the subject you mentioned to me. . I believe ho would take such a position." Please explain that. —"If I said that I must have meant such.a position as instructor." , - Did you mean a position on the conference as instructor?—" That must have been the position. It seems to mo from what I say in both the lotters, which-1 wrote the same day, that I referred to the position of instructor on the conference.

But you say that he will probably take tho position for one year. I liavo been keeping that for you.—"l don't want you to trap me. 1 am trying to speak tho truth in this matter." Mr. Herdman: No one doubts you are speaking the truth. Mr. Wilford: No one doubts you. Mr. Herdman: Mr. Wilford suggests it.

Mr. Wilford: Then' it is true that Mr. Allen was considering Garliclc before the conference sat? —"I wrote to liim, but I cannot say what Mr. Allen was thinking." You wouldn't write to him if lie was not. Is it not a fact that Alien wa_s considering Garlick? —"Ho asked me if Garliclc sliould be on tlie committee." Is it not a fact that you wroto'to Mr. Allen before the conference, and. said that Garlick would tako the position for one year?—"l cannot say whether Mr. Alien meant the position of head instructor or 0110 of tlio instructors. It was a long time ago." It couldn't liave referonce to the sitting of tho conference, could it? —"I don't suggest so for 0110 minuto." Then you told Mr. Allen before tfcs conference that Garlick would take sudi a position as you nominated in your letter, for 0110 year. (The .nomination, referred to was part of a recommendation by Dr. Smith with regard to the proposed scheme. He recommended the appointment of a director). —"Yes." . You said in your letter that Garlick was going to Melbourne, but might stay if ho beliovcd liis services would bo of value. So what did you mean by "such a position for one year"?—"lf I had known such an inquiry was to be held I should have made a better mental note of everything."', Garlick sat with you on tho committee? —"Yes." Then you recommended Garlick for the position?—" No." Will you deny it?—" No. If you have ovideneo to say I did. I did. I remom- ,, bor nothing p£ani-.. ii.'*

What was the salary mentioned when you wrote to Air. Allen on August 19? —"There was no salary mentioned."

Can you tell us what you know of Garlick's 'experience as an organiser and administrator?—"l tinly know of such from his running of the Australasian Massage Institute, of which he was New Zealand secretary." How many members aro there in the Dominion? —"I don't know." Are there only three?—"l don't know." - * You know he got in without examination? —"Yes." Then yon say that the way he managed the Massage Institute in Now 7/caland gave you the idea tha+, he was an administrator? —"Yes." Here is a letter dated December 21, 1912, signed by Crichton Hale, and addressed to tho secretary, Australasian Massage institute, AVellington. You will see bv the envelope that it was returned through' tho dead-lett?r office. Was that part of his administration work —"I sometimes have letters ad : dressed to mo as 'Dr. Hardwick Smith, New Zealand,' and they don't reach me.'" So that's your answer. • This concluded Dr. Smith's evidence. "A Very Suitable Man." Dr. James ' Martin Mason, of Wellington, said he thought Garlick was a very suitable man for the position of director. In the matter of deep breathing he was a very excellent teacher. This was tho only department of his wotlj with which the witness was acquainted. He thought Garlirjc would be a very capable instructor. To Mr. Herdman: He had known Garlick for about nine years, and had been a member of one of his classes. He had sent Garlick many patients— children iwho to be taught how to breathe. The results had been satisfactory. The witness had once been Chief Health Officer for the Dominion, and knew' a good deal about the general health of the community. Ho approved of the scheme for tho teaching of phvsical culture. He thought that Garlick would be capable of directing such 3. scheme. It would not be wise for lay instructors to o."al with such cases as spinal curvature except under the supervision of a medical man. He had not read tho manual of physical culture- adopted by the Department. He had had a- good deal of experience of physical culture 111 isngland, and he knew that the manual thero was a good book. Ho had_ not heard of medical men acting as physical directors in England. To Mr. Sidoy: If the director was to ■ deal with special cases without medical supervision lie should himself be a medical man. That, however, was not necessary if tho diagnosis of cases wa's to be made by tho medical inspectors. One thing he liked about Garlick was that he emphasised the necessity for correct breathing before beginning to exercise a child. •To Mr. Statham: He thought Garlick was a fit and proper person to have charge' of the scheme. He did not think it probablo that a medical man could be obtained to take up such a scheme for £600 a year. A doctor might, perhaps, take it at that salary, but it would bo for the lovo of it. Ho thought a man entrusted with such a comprehensive scheme should havo a salary of at least £600. To Mr. Scott: He had not a very high idea of Swedish drill. Ho' had scon children go to sleep while doing Swedish exorcises, which practically taught thom nothing but rhythm.

Medical Man Unnecessary. To tho chairman: It would havo been better to put a medical man at the head of tho scheme, if they could have got'one with the special physical training .necessary. Children could not be medically classified without personal examination. It would take the four medical officers a very long timo to make tho inspection of the • 185,000 school children of the Dominion. Unless they hurried, many of the children would be grown out of the schools before* tho inspection was completed. Personal examination of every child would tako seven, years. There were about 13 per cent, of defective cliil-1 dren in the schools, and these would need tho personal care of tho instructors and medical officers. Tho obviously unhealthy children could, of course, be picked out by the teachors without the necessity of medical inspection. To Mr. Allen: A medical man who had charge of tho scheme as director would havo no possible chance of personally inspecting the schools. He thought it a. more feas.iblo system to have a physical expert at the head, working in co-oporation with four med-ical-officers. That was just the kind of work' Garlick had bs?n doing. Breathing exercises wore of great importance to children. Ho had had nothing to do with tho compilation of Garlick's list of exercises, which ho knew to he' scientifically good. _ At a conference of school inspectors in 1907 he had advocated breathing exercises, and had brought Garlick up to illustrate them. Garlick stood -high amongst the physical culturists of Now Zealand. The witness had seen one as good—Hornibrook, of Christchurch. "Best Man for tho Position." To Mr Wilford: He knew-nothing of Garlick as an organiser or administrator. He agreed with the American idea that it was best if _ possible to have medical men as physical directors. The medical' inspector should not only diagnosa the disease, but prescribe the treatment. It would not bo right for any layman to diagnose or treat special cases. Garlick was the best man he knew in New Zealand for the position. When ho was Chief Health Officer he had been astonished at the interest taken by teachers in the welfare of their children, and the frequency with which they reported cases of defect. ' Mr. Wilford: If there are 13 per cent, of defective children ill our schools, they must number. 23,400. How majiy men would it tako to deal with all these individually? ' The witness: An enormpus number. An Instructor Gives Evidence,. Stanley Moore, inspector and teacher of physical education, said that lie. had known nothing of • Garliek's qualifications before the scheme commenced 1 . He had since found that 'Garlick gave very good interpretations of tho work, and that his knowledge of breathing exercises was also very good. Tho witness had had nine years' service in the Now Zealand Permanent Force, and previously to that had 1 been a volunteer. He had later been an, instructor on the New Zealand staff, and had for some engaged in junior cadet work. To tho chairman: He claimed to have a special knowledge of work with children, having for three years taught 3000 children a week. He had studied deepbreathing, physiology, and anatomy under Garlick. Ho thought Garlick was qualified to take charge of the scheme and direct the work. . A knowledge of advanced Swedish drill was not . iiewss&ry for work with children. To Mr. Herdmam: Advanced Swedish drill consisted entirely of work with apparatus. Before lie joined .the Artillery ho was a blacksmith by trade. At tho end of his nine years' service -in the It.N.Z.A. he was a competent physical instructor, and had been chosen in staff camps to s"'° instruction, to tho ser-geant-majors, who included many Imperial A ; rmy men. He was one of the first four instructors selected under the present schomc. Johnston was "wrong in saying that "Garlick did not knowhis business" when ho took a'class of instructors at the Normal School. So far as the witness know, Ga-rlick knew the tables thoroughly. With tho other instructors, tho witness had taken several classes of teachers in the Auckland district, there being in all some 750 teachers in' the classes. After their course of training the teachers were fully competent to tako tho exercises jriti children JnJ&a crofior pro- >

gression. Ho would not now hold teachers' classes, but would visit tho individual schools and see that tho work was being properly carried wit. He took part in the Town Hall exhibition. A table had been taken by Johnston, but. tho sequence was not quite right. Generally, tho exhibition had been quite satisfactory. .

To Mr. Sideyj He was appointed in February last, along with Messrs. Johnston and Just and Miss Heritage. A great deal of instruction had been given to tho class of .instructors 1 by Garlick, chiefly in the form of lectures. Scheme Working Well. To Mr. Statham: The scheme so far was working exceedingly well. It was based on Swedish principles, but Swedish drill proper was far too hard for children. Special attention under the scheme was directed towards the weak child. Every precaution was taken that no child should suffer by doing the exorcises. As a matter of fact, there was not an exerciso in tho book which could injure children. That was why it was so good. •

To Mr. G. M. Thomson: He had had provious experience in physiology and anatomy, although he had not gone through any special course in these subjects. The book had been compiled with a special eye to weak children, but the exercises wore also of tho greatest benefit to normal healthy children.

To the chairman: .He know that Johnston held high certificates from tho Army and Navy schools , at Aldershot and Portsmouth respectively. Tho witness thought that ho was quite'competent to judge such a man, so far as the work bore on children. He thought it would take him about a year to inspect all his schools, unlesß ho had assistance. It would take six years to work a school right through the 72 tables in the syllabus. By the end of next year the teachers would bo able to instruct in all the tables.

The Chairman: Were tho teachers medically examined before they camo down, to tho classos? —"Some of them were, 'with the object of getting out of tho classes; but thoy were all in it before the classes were finished." A Lively Passage. To Mr. Wilford: Ho had studied anatomy and physiology under Garlick. for several hours a day during his course. He had studied tho subjects at different, times, and knew as much about tliem as most instructors.

Mr. Wilford put a. number of technical questions to tho witness, by way of testing his knowledge of anatomy. Ho named different muscles of the body, and asked what were their functions, and how should they be exercised. Mr. G. M. Thomson: I don't think .Mr. Wilford really knows one from another.

After Mr. Wilford had asked some further questions, the witness said, -"I am prepared to challenge any of your experts to examine me, provided that wo have six rounds at the end of it."

Would you "tako on" Johnston? Ho is the middle-weight champion of the Navy.—"Yos. You describe him as a middle-weight champion. • 1 don't want to boast, but I am middle-weight champion of the New Zealand forces. Bring him along, and if he wants to say that his Navy is hotter than my Army, I (shall bo pleased to help him decide the question. If you have an expert, and I am ever taking a class, trot him along, and I'll let him take the class. If ho is a better man than I am, I'll hand my class over to him, and ho can have it—provided that he finishes at jiu-jitsu and boxing with me." ■

Why do you keep saying that you don't want to boast?—" Because I don't wish to." You don't want us to forgot it? '• Mr. Herdman.: Nobody wants to boast but Mr. Wilford. Mr. Wilford: Are you a Swedish drill expert?—" Yes." A Testimonial. In answer to further questions by Mr. Wilford, tho witness said that ho did not sign a testimonial that Garlick had taught him Swedish drill. Ho had heard that such a testimonial had gone round amongst tho instructors for signature, but he did not know who took it round. He did aiot'know who had signed it, or who had not. Ho had never seen it himself. He did not remember any occasion on which Garlick forgot the words of command. Garlick asked sevoral instructors to carry out a certain evolution, merely as an experiment to ascertain, which was the best system. • ■ Mr. Wilford: You wero with the Junior Cadets. Mr. Hogbon said that thoy were in a chaotic state.' Wore they ?— "Not in Auckland. They may have been generally." Have they been demilitarised? —"Not altogether. ~ It is optional for schools to have cadet companies if they wish, but the military drill must be done in their own time."

Have you any certificates But I have many testimonials."- . Mr. Hogben says that testimpnials are of no value.

Mr. Herdman: Mr. ■ Wilford is here to ask questions, not to make comment. Mr. Wilford: Well, I'll ask the. witness, do you agreo with Mr. Hogben that testimonials aro of no value? —"I don't know about that, but I have any number of them, anyway." This concluded tho witness's evidenoe. Tho committee adjourned at 6.00 p.m. until 8 p.m. Another Instructor. When the committee resumed in the evening, the first witness was Frank llichard Just, inspector and teacher of physical training. Ho- said that he had first learnt physical drill at the Scotch College, Hobart. When he came to New Zealand in 1902 ho joined tho R.N.Z.A., and went through tho usual military coursc, under various instructors. In ,1910 he was appointed to the Junior Cadet Department. The training of the Junior Cadets was partly military and partly physical drill. The cadet instructors made a table for themselves from the Army hand-book. When the new scheme was instituted, ho spent six- weeks in training, and had also taken lectures in anatomy and physiology under Royd Garlick. All the time he was under Garlick ho felt as if he wero under a very severe form of examination, and accordingly had formed the opinion that Garlick knew a great deal moro about the business than he did himself. He thought Garlick was eminently qualified for the position of director. ■ To Mr. Herdman: Tho breathing ex-, ercises compiled by Mr. Garlick were quite satisfactory. When the ors wero being trained at tho Normal School, Garlick said that he would have t-j learn the words of command himself. This was because thoy had been . altered to the military style, to shorten them. He was quite satisfied from what ho had seen at tho Normal School that Garlick knew his business. He never Jit any timo mado what coula be called a mistake. The witness had learnt a great deal from Garlick. Mr. Hcrdman: Is the present system better than that which you previously worked under?—"We had no system.' And now you have a system? xes; a most excellont one." Your experience of-Mr. Garlick since the scheme started shows that it is working admirably under his direction ? —"The results show that. I havo had Icttors from teachers stating that what they previously considered a bogey was now a pleasure to them." In alisiver to further questions, the witness said that the Town Hall exhibition luid been very hurried, and tlioj had not been given a chance to show their best work. It would be absurd to attempt to teach advanced Swedish drill to children. To Mr. Sidey: He considered himself an expert at this special work. Mooro and himself were tho only instructors.

appointed at first who had had experience of children. Johnston had not had such experience. • During their six weeks' course of training they had been almost continually in charge of Garlick. 'i'o Mr. Statham: The scheme was working excellently. To the chairman: It would take bitn six months to visit all the schools in Hawko's Bay, to see that the teachers were doing the work properly, 'i'hero had been 110 head of the junior Cadets who had any knowledge of physical drill, and there was 110 universal system in voguo in the Dominion. . Tho system used for tbo cadet training went too far, and the present system was much more simple. Ho did not know whether school 'cadot companies had received official notification that they. had been domilitarised. In Auckland nearly every school kept its cadet corps. The work had to be done after school hours.

To Mr. Wilford: He had bqen special- 1 ly sent to Whangarci from Wellington to collect vouchers for tho ©spouses of teachcrs who had attended tbo training camp there. Ho had gone to Hamilton for the same purpose. Both special trips were necessary, as tho vouchors • could not bo collected at the time tho camps were held. Ho had been sent on both these trips by the director.' Tho work might possibly have been done by a cleric in tho Education Department. That Testimonial Again. Mr. Wilford: Have you over seen a paper staging that Garlick had taught Swedish drill?—" No." Have you ever signed such a paper ?— "I have nover seen it. I'll tell you what I have seen—that is a paper stating that Garlick had supervised the work of the instructors, and had taught thom." Who drew it out? —"I did." Who signed it?—" Those who were loyal to the Department." Whose idea was it?—"lt was the idea of three or four instructors in Wellington, .who thought that the Director of Physical Training was not being cleanly treated." Was it a testimonial? —"No." Was it sent to'him? —"No." Did all tho instructors sign it? — It was signed by all to whom it was shown, with the exception of one, who locked it up.," * . „ Where is it now? —"I havo it. How many signed it? —"Seven or eight. There are only two or three who have not signed it." Who locked it up?—'.'l don't know that I should answer." The Chairman: You can answer. "Well, it was Johnston." Another Anatomical Examination, • In answer to further questions by Mr. Wilford, the witness said that he had no certificate as a physical instructor or Swedish drill teacher. He. had boen under a course of anatomy aud physiology under Garlick —two or throe hours a day for' a fortnight or three weeks. 1 , Mr. Wilford proceeded to ' ask the witness a numbor of anatomical questions. Tho witness answered one of two, and then said, "Am I to be compelled to sit. hero and submit to an anatomical examination without charts, while my head is full of other business?' Mr. Wilford continued to ask questions, and tho witness said; "If I am to submit to an examination I will sit for it, but not in the®presenco oi tfne Com"mittee." 1 Mr. Wilford: You won't answer? — "No."