PRIME MINISTER REPLIES.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1836, 23 August 1913, Page 6

PRIME MINISTER REPLIES.

CRITICS ANSWERED. STIRRING UP THE OPPOSITION. THE BY-ELECTIONS. The PRIME MINISTER rose to reply to his critics at 4.5 p.m. 110 eaid that he liad [very little fault to find with the debate. On the wholo it had been conducted in a good spirit. He would like to assure the member who had just sat down that land) for settlemieait was not quite so scarce as he imagined 1 . If Sir. Hindmarsh was willing to take up a section lie would provide it on tho morrow. If 'he did not like land', he could have a section every aero of which could be cultivated. Mr. M'Calhim: What rent? . 'Mr. Massey: fair market value. As to predictions that tho Government would meet trouble at next election, tho indications wero all tho other way. There had been two by-olootiona since tho Government took office. In ono tho Government captured the seat. In tho other the Opposition had lost tho seat. Mr. M'Callum: And you did not get it. Mr. Massey: There is tho actual fact. By-elections are generally aooooted as indicating the state of oditlcal tooling. Ho.

continued that a telegram had been placed in his hand that M<y which informed him that in a West Coast centre, where until a fow months ago the Government waa not supposed to have any friends at all, a large public meeting had expressed coniidenoe in tho present Government .and appreciation of tilie good work it .was doing. Mr. Forbes: They want a grant. Mr. Massey: I think that is a dcoided reflection on the West Coast. Two Kinds of Liberals Ho was very pleased to leam from the member for Kaipara that the scheme for tho settlement of tho aim lands was likely to bo a success. Tho member- for Temuka had said on tho previous evening that wlien in tho Old Country he was Sroud of tho liberals there. "I did not ear him say," addfed the Brimo Minister, "that ho was proud of tho Liberals out hero." (Laughter.) As'to Mr. David Jones, it was true that he had contested the Ashburton' seat against Mr. Noeworthy, but on that occasion there were a number of candidates, and both Messrs. Jones and Nosivorthy stood as au/pporters of tho party that was now in office. Ho believed that, eventually Mr. Jones.would enter Parliament. Mr. Buxton: He would have got in us a Liberal if he could. Mir. Massey: I don't think that ia a fair thins to. say. It depends on what you call a I/ibarai. I have known him far 15 years, and he has been on my side in politics all that timet An Embarrassed Party, The Pirime Minister continued that ho had never seen a set of men so embarrassed in connection with their criticisms as the present Opposition. On first reading the Budget before Parliament hie had considered that tho Minister for Finance had not given it sufficient colour. Now lie thought that tho Minister had done right. He had avoided window-dressing, and placed before tho countty a plain, straightforward account of its financial condition, and evidently, 'from what had taken place, it was a statement that had appealed to the people, and in which thoy had entire confidence. From the member who opened tho debate (Mr. Mac Donald) and "roared like any sucking dove," down [ to the member for Avon, tho criticism had baem the most futilo and puerile that couild possibly be conceived. His feelings towards ono or two of these members had been quite other than respect, because some of them had mot been, pairtiouilar about hitting below the belt. Oppositionists were not pleased with what had .taken place. They had count- . Ed upon the financial sbrimgoncv of some months ago—whicih was not aone with yet—.placing the Government 'in serious difficulties and putting them (the Opposition) on tho Treasury benches. But they had passed through a prosperous season, and had entered upon what he believed would bo a still more prosparoius rare. The settlers of tho country had risen to the occasion. A Comparison of Exports. He wierait on to compare some items of exports during July last'with the exports for July, 1912.' Tho details ware:— July, 1912. July, 1913. £ £ Bute'' • 18,000 24,000 Frozen mutton ... 130,000 174,000 Frozen lamb 154,000 304,000 Hides and tallow 83,000 166,000 There was an improvement .over Ehe figures for July, 1912, Mr. Massey etotodj, g! ,8596,456. . 'A member: Is that due to,the Goronif ment? .' Mr. Massey said that he would establish the connection. Wlhy all this nowborn zeal on the- part of the sett3ens? Beoause thtey. had come to have confidence in themselves, in the country, and in. the Govermmmt that happened to bo in office. Opposition laughter, and Government Hear, hears! The Government's Policy. 1 Mr. Massey said that they had heard a great deaL .on the other sido about a want of policy in the Budget. Anyone listening to tho criticisms on the otneir sido of the House' would think that a Government produced a policy every day of the week, and changed it as often as its members changed their collars. Tho pdlioy of tlhe Government had been put forward' at the proper time. Ho had himself pu/t it foil-ward on 71 platforms in different pants of the country. In Wellington, tho political centre of the country!, he had presented it in the Town

Hall before one of the largest audiences evcir assembled there. The Government had adhered itrictly to the policy put forward on that occasion. Mr. Russell: No! What about roduotion. in. expenditure? Public Servics Reform. On the subject of Public Service re- . farm,.Mr. Massey said that the dassifioation lost was now before the coumu'y. Would members on rtUuo other side be willing .to repeal the Public Service Adt ?. Mr. M'OaMumi Yes. Mr. Massey: 'Noiv I hare got them where I want them I. The member for Wairau ia prepared to restore the old system of political graft and political influence'. I will ask the member on the front Opposition, bench whether ho is prepared to return to political graft and political influence? Mr. Uraasali: I am prepared to repeal that Bill.

Mr. Massey: Now I have ' tho answer I warat, and the one I knew I would get. I am quite satisfied that the people of the country will never give tho honourable gentleman a chance to repeal tho Mt. Russell: 'You have lost tho Wellington North seat already! (Laughter.) Mr. Massey said that the Goveirannfint had promised to reduoe the pension age far women. The Bill was before-the Bouse, and would have.been law now if it had not been blocked by honourable members on the. other side of tho House. He ran over otheir iteips in the Government policy, amd declared that tho Opposition was unable to discover a single item of extravaganoo on the part of tho Government except that some unfortunate Public Servant was getting a hundred a year more than lie sliould get. Mr. BusseU: You pledged yourself to reform local government. Mr.' Massey: And that will be done. ■ At Sixes and Sovens.

Where, hB asked, was tho policy of Hie Opposition? Was there a single point of policy on which they agreed? Did they agree on the land question, tho defenco question, taxation, or Customs duties? There was not a single point of policy

upon friends opposite agreed, or upon- which they could put forward a policy that would appoal to the people of the country. Mr. Ell: String of assertions.

Where are the Top Hats Now? . Mr. Massey said that tho first thing done by the "ten minutes Ministry" was to rush.off to the photographers and bo photographed in thea.T top hats. (Roars of laughter.) Mr. Russell: Your top hats wore all in

Pl Mr.' Massey: Someono 3iere asks: Where are tie top hats now? Mr. Russell: Where yours were—in >i Jlr.' Massey: I shall never forgot that photograph, becaiuse tho' thought that struck ine was that they looked exactly liko a lino of undertakers' assistants out for a picnic. The Teachers' Friends. Regarding increases, in tho salaries of school-teachers, Mr. Massey said that members opposite were trying to use tlie teachers for political purposes. 110 was glad to say that the teachers understood thoroughly what was going on. Tho position as it appealed to them was: Hero is a party that has been ■ in office for 20 years. What have they done for us? A member: Worked them liko galley slaves. Mr. Massey: Yes, worked them liko galley slaves. Now that they are in Opposition they can find nothing to say against the party in powor except that they are not doing justice to the teachers. There was no better friend of the teachers .than tho present Minister for Education. Tho friends of tho teachers woro all round him (indicating tho Government benches). Mr. Witty: You are to givo them. £5 a year. , Dr. Pomaro: That is more than you ever did. The State Guarantee. Mr. Massey dealt next with tlio proposal to guarantee local body loans. Small local bodies, ho stated, would bo enabled to group tlioir loans. Mentioning t.ho Electoral Bill, Mr. dww Ww Qnnositiou a auostimi WJiavs tn J"

Ho did not reply, but went on to speak about the appointment of a General Manager of Railways. Mr. Eorbes: That was in. the Mackenzie Budget, wasn't it? Mr. Laurenson (to Mr. Massey): Aren't you ashamed of it?

Mr. Slassey: Considering that the proposal was in the first place put forward by the "ten minutes Ministry," of which the honourable gentleman was a member, I don't think lie ought to interject in that way. Mr. Laurenson: I do. . Board of Agriculture. The proposed Board of Agriculture, the Prime Minister stated, would bo sot up, ho hoped, in the spring. Four members would be appointed by the Government and eight by the agricultural societies in. different parts of New Zealand. The board would bo purely advisory, and its members would receive no salaries. It was impossible to find railways for all tho people who asked for them, but where the Government could not provide them it would givo local bodies and tho people themselves an opportunity or supplying them, so long as they complied with, regulations that would be laid down. A new building was to be erected in London for the High Commissioner and his staff. Post Office Funds. The member for Avon had tried to raako.out that deposits in the Post Offico Savings Bank had fallen off in the timo of the present Government. Mr. Myers: That is quite right. Mr. Massey: I will prove that the statement is incorrect. I have the figures here for May, June, and July this year and last year. Mr. Russell: That is absurd. Go back to the time when you took ofßce. Mr. Massey: I am taking the thrco months when you were in office, and the threo months this year. The excess of deposits for the three months in 1912 was .£115,137, and for the three months this year the amount wag .£181,312. Mr. Myers: That is because you increased the rato of interest.

Mr. Massey: "I don't think the rate of interest had anything to do with it. The figures show that ire are to the good this year by .£05,914." Mr. Russell's Political Past. The member for Avon was quite a resurrectioner in the way of digging- into the. graveyard of "Hansard." In 1901,' when Mr. Russell was a supporter of tho late Mr. Seddon, ho .on one occasion attacked Mr. Seddon very bitterly when the latter was supposed to have had a crest and motto painted upon tho panels of his carriage. In the courso of Mr. Kussell's speech, the then Speaker (Sir Maurico O'ilorke) rose, and said, with the dignity and in tho tones that old members of the House would remember: "I must say that tho hon. gentleman's speech is tending to degenerate and lower the tone of Parliamentary discussion and the dignity of this Houso and it appears to me that he is now, wearying the House with his lengthy remarks about crests and mottoes. ', ' Mr. Russell: There were shouts all round for me to go on—you remember? Mr. Massey: I do not rememben that,, and tho honourable gentleman I believe' has the distinction of. being the only member cullod to account in 'that way without th|o Speaker's attention being called to 'him. . Unauthorised Expenditure. Much had been made of the fact that ithere had been, an increase in unauthorised expenditure, Probably some of tho junior members of the house did not know that the Government was allowed au expenditure of .£250,000 under this head—.£loo,ooo for working railways and .£150,000 for other services. The unauthorised expenditure for last. year was .£190,000 or .£60,000 within the limit. Did honourable members know tho reason for the increases? Working railways had taken .£43,000 because tho railway revenuo had increased considerably above the estimate, and tho law, was that under such circumstances tho unauthorised expenditure could increase in a like ratio.. This

was tho reason for tho increase in railway expenditure. Did the opponents of the Government object to that expenditure? Did they object 'to tho increased expenditure on defence? Did they object to the expenditure to meet the enormous demand for telegraph extension? Mr. ltussell: Automatic telephones? Mr. Massey: We have not come to tho expenditure on. those yet, but we are providing for it. These three items, ho said, had, accounted for a total unauthorised expenditure of .£128,436. But members on tho other side had spoken ais if they had no control of this expenditure, when, tho fact was that details of it were supplied to Parliament in the Supplementary Estimates, and that members had the right to criticise every item. He thought members should bo fair in their critieism of this and every other matter.

Mr: Witty: You are only getting a bit of your own lack. Mr. Massey: My dear boy, -I don't object to criticism, even advorse criticism, so long as it is hitting above the belt.' The Southland Lease. i Mr. M'Calluin, lie continued, had broken new ground in -referring to tho Southland lease. How, after wnat had taken place members of the legal profession could express tho opinions they had expressed soinio months ago in nagaid to the Southland lease ho could not imagino. • He couild suppose only chat they did not know muoti about tho law. Mr. M'Calluin: Sub judico! Privy Council! 1 Mr. Massey: It iB not going to the Pirivy Council, and if it is, he has no right to refer to it, aind lie has no right to shelter himself behind the sub judico argument. He went on to explain that there • were two kinds of perpetual leases, and undor one of these leases minerals were by a covenant in the lease reserved to the Crown. In tho Southland lease under review this covenant was in the lease, and the Act of last year did not destroy tho effect of that covenant. Tho lessee could purchase his land, but only such rights over tho land as were granted by liis lease. Tho feo simple did not, for these leases, mean everything from the topmost atmosphere abovo tho surface of bho land down to tho centre of the earth. The position

was that if the holder of tho land took out - minerals he 'had to pa.y a royalty to the State for minerals won. -The intention of tho law since 1873 was to reserve minerals to the Crown, and this was generally the law now, "with the exception that - the House had struck out oil from the definition of minerals. Ho repeated that tho Teal facts did not justify the hysterical statements made at the timo and the scare headlines in tho Opposition pa-pens. At that time ho had said nothing; he knew his turn would como. i Blackberries and Mr. Brown. He was sorry tho member for Napier was not in the Houso, because ike wanted to deal with both of tho Heavenly Twins together. Some years ago ho had read a novel which was then popular, called "Tho Heavenly Twins," and now every timo he saw the member for Napier and the member for Ohristchiirch North together ho thought of thte Heavenly Twins. . Ma-, ltussell: I thought your literature was of that kind. Mir. Massey: I will givo you some other literature before I sit down. He traversed Mr. Brown's roforence to tho Tongoio estate. 'Mir. Bro.vn said that this had boona good purdiase. It was nothing of tho kind. It Iliad cost i£so,oop, and twelve settlors had been put on it. Since ho had come into offico lie had had numerous applications from tho settlors to have the' ronts remitted, on account of olio difficulty they 'had in keeping down the blackberry pest. He had sent a reliablo officer of the Lands Department to tho settlement, and lie lad reported that on the various sections the.ro were a great many blackberries—from 50 acres to 300 acres on each section. And this was the purchase about v/liioh the member for Napier was so fond of boasting. Mr. Wilson: Scandalous! Mr. Massey said that in answer to tho appeals of tko settlors ho had had to arrange to remit tho rents for three years, at a cost to the country of .CIOOO a year, to allow tho settlers to cope with tho pest. It. was a most serious matter for tho settlers. It was also said on behalf of tho settlors that they needed a man employed all day ou every section, who was kept occupied at cutting sheep out of the blackberries. Ho hoped that when ho went out of offico liono of his opponents would bo' able to say that lie had purchased such a block as this.

had been purchased by tho Government recently for J220 an acre on which tho Governmont valuation was only J. 7. He did not challenge the statement thai tho block had been purchased, buit it had boon pur. clui>ed pome timo before tho present Government came into office.

Mr. Brown had read out a list of shareholders in The Dominion new.sp.aper, sotting forth tlio value of tho lands held by eaoil one. 110 (Mr. Massey) had thought at. the time that the statement was iiicwrect, and lie liad had the figures checked. In 20 a.-'es among tho holdings mentioned lands had been subdivided sinco Mr. Brown's figures, taken from a return, were laid oil tho table of the House. In some cases tho whole of tho estato had been cut up and alienated, and in some cases estates had been partially subdivided. Altogether 117,000 acres of land had been cut up, and 103,000 acres of that in the last twelve months, sinco the present Govsniment camo' into offico. Tho statement of Mr. Brown, was incorrect, and should not have been made use of in the House.

The member for Avon was one of the members of the Opposition who was inclined to hit below tho belt. Mr. Russell had made charges about the lavish use of special trains by Ministers, and hb had not withdrawn them. It was true that four Ministers and their secretaries

had taken a special train, from Auckland, but if they had not 'done so they would either have had to keep tho ordinary train waiting two hours, or to lose a day from their offices immediately, before the sitting of tho House, That £50,000. The honourable gentleman liad also made an imputation against the Minister for Public Works, a gentleman who had given the best. years of his life to tho service of the country, who had. never been guilty of a orooked action in his life, by seeking to make tho public believe that there was something wrong about tho loan to tho Government of .£50,000 by tho New Zealand Loan and Mercantile, of which company Mr. Fraser was a director. .Of oourse this was by no means the first instance of a finan- | cial institution lending money to the Government on short-dated debentures. When the'proposal had! been put to him (Mr. Massey) it at once occurred to him that this ioO.OOO would enable the .Government to lend .£SOO to each of 100 settlers, and he accepted' the proposal. U ndesorvlng of Credflnce. Also, in on interview with a representative of an Opposition paper, the member for Avon had said that the Ministry had completely negatived their promises by increasing the public debt of the Dominion in their first year of office by t -£5,700,000. Did the honourable member say' now that tho Government had increased the indebtedness by this amount? Mr. Russell-..My statement is in Hansard. Mr. Massey: Hero is tho position: Tho Government of which ho was a member borrowed £i,500,000 of tho .£5,700,000 by which he said wo increased the public debt. Is that fair criticism? Is that a right thing to do? •Is it tho truth? Sir, wnen an honourable member makes statements like that it follows that no crcdenco can be given to any of his statements. , Credit of the Country. Tho member for Avon, he continued, had tried to make Parliament and the public believe that the Government had injured the credit 'of the country. Quoting from tho most recent issue to hand of the "Economist," he read that New Zealand stocks wero quoted at par, while tho stocks of all the Australian States, with the exception of New South Wales, were at a discount. Now South -Wales were quoted at 101, and tho stocks of the other States iat from 98 to 99. He was proud to be able to say that though the financial position of this country was not satisfactory twelve months ago, a decided improvement had taken place since then, and we had overtaken our liabilities to a very great extent. A referenco hud been, made to the New South Walos loan placed

on the market the other day. Ho believed tho rate was 4 per cent, and it had been iloated at 98. That loan, would cost, inoluding all oharges, £i 10s. 4d. per cent, per annum. Tho New Zealand loan floated by. -Mr. Allen had .cost 6s. Gd. This was surely sufficient proof that our credit was good in London today. , • ' , Cook Islands Affairs. The appointment of Mr. Northoroft as Kesident Commissioner at tho Cook Islands had been criticised adversely by the member for Christchurch North. Ho wished to tell members of the Houso that Mr. Northcroft was not an applicant for the position. Ho was selected, and asked to take tho position, - because the Government believed that 'ho was the most suitable man in. tho Dominion for tho position. Mr. Northcroft was known to be a straightforward, able, and fearless man, just tho man to go to tho Islands

at 'tlio time tho Government) asked lilm bo go. And there was 110 doubt tliat his administration had done good there already. There must always be friction in small communities like tho Cook Islands but tho fact remained that he commanded the confidence of the bulk of the people on tho Islands. In order to take the position, Mr. Northcroft had surrendered his pension of .£375 a year, so that tho total cost to" the Government of tho appointment was only something liko -C 325 per annum. So far as fhe constable was concerned, he had been appointed temporarily by Mr. Northcroft, and the: appointment could not be made permanent without the sanction of the Minister in charge of the Department. That sanction liad not yet been given. More Quotations. Mr. Massoy them produced some quotations from Shakespeare, which lie said his friends on the other side had been asking for. > Mr. Emssell: I knew you would follow mo. You have no policy of your own. • Jlr. Massey then read the following quotations, and the name of tho membex to w4om each applied. As will bo seen, all tho quotations are Shakespearean except that about Mr. Wilford, which is from Byron's "Don Juan": L\lr. Itasedl—. • What cracker is this sume, that deafs our ears With this abundance of superflous breath. Mr. Ilanan—A gentleman, nurse, that loves to hoar himself talk, and will speak more in a minute than, he wild stand ■ to in. a month. Mr. Mac Donald—

I como not, friends, to, steal away your hearts; I am no orator as Brutus is; I only speak right on. lir. Budda—

Ho draweth out tho thread of his verbosity Finer -than the staple of his argument.

Mr. Witty—l am not only witty, in myself, but tho cause that wit is in other men.

Mr. Wilford— Oh, for a forty-parson power to chant thy praise, Hypocrisy! Oh, lor a hymn loud as the virtues thou dost loudly, vaunt, not practiso! Mr. Laiurcnson— Ho has strangled His langaugo in his tears. Mr. Myers— ' Vaulting ambition which o'orleaps itself And falls on the other sidte. Mr. Isitt—Gratiano speaks an infinite deal of nothing, his 'reasons are two grains of wheat hid in two buahels of ohafl:; you shall seek all day ere you find them, and when you havo them' they are not worth the search. Mr. Payne's Promise. Mr. Massey said tho member for Grey Lynn had contradicted him a few nights previously when ho (Mir. Massey) had said that he had received from Mr. Payne a written promise • that lie would support the Government. ■ "Here it is," said Jl-r. Massoy, holding out a lotter, "but tho lion, gentle'man is not in his place, and I won't read it in Jiis absence."