MINISTER FOR MARINE

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1822, 7 August 1913, Page 8

MINISTER FOR MARINE

AND HIS CRITICS. WESTPORT HARBOUR BOARD APPOINTMENT. INQUIRY COMMITTEE MEETS. Very little progress was made by the Special CbinmitUe oi tho House of Representatives set up to inquire into recent appointments to the Westport Harbour. Hoard at its first meeting yesterday. Tho proceedings tended all tho time to take the form of a desultory talk round the table, in tho course of which all sorts of references were made to subjects uioto or less connected with tlio inquiry. Tho Hon. F. M. B. Fislior made ft preliminary statement, and suggested an order of reference. Air. H. Atmore also made a statement, and with other members of tho committee suggested additions to the order rf reference. Still another statement was made by Mr. J. Colvin, member for Buller. Finally it was agreed that certain witnesses should bo summoned, and tho committee adjourned until Tuesday: On first meeting, tho committee elected Air. E. P. Lee as chairman. Other members who attended wero: Alessrs. R. Scott, K. F. Bollard, C. E. Statham, J. H. Bradn,ey, L. M. Isitt, H. Atinoro, J. Colvin, G. Laurenson, and the Hon. F. M. B. i'isher. THE MINISTER'S STATEMENT. WHY APPOINTMENTS WERE MADE. The Hon. 31. B. Fisher made an introductory statement. "As a result," he said, "of the statutory changes which had been, made in the constitution of the Westport Harbour Board, either by Act or by Order-in-Council, it devolved upon mo as Minister for Marine to recommend the names of /three gentlemen for appointment to t]ie board. With the object in view of securing fair representation for tho whole district concerned, I reoomniended the appointment of'Alessrs. Greenwood, Simpson, and Gillen. Air. Greenwood had been Major of Westport for six years consecutively, and to his appointment I understand no objection has been raised. The borough of Westport has liQw three representatives on the board, Air. Greenwood, nominated, and Alessrs. Munro and Scanlon, elected, by tho people. On March 10 the Buller District Council representing some Labour organisations wrote submitting tho name of Air. John Dowgray as a suitable person for nomination to the board. On Alarch 17 the Wcstport-Stockton Sonl Mines Union wrote to the same effect. On March 30 Air. Blackburn, chairman of the Chamber of Commerce at Itaramea, telegraphed asking that Councillor Simpson, bo appointed. ."1 recommended the appointment of Air. Gillen. on tlio grounds that ho was the next highest, on tlio poll to tho two members elected, and was. specially qualified to .represent Labour interests on the board. I recommended Mr. Simpson' 1 on the grounds that ho had been electcd unopposed to tho Buller County Council by tho residents of Karamea, and therefore was a fit and proper person to represent tlio northern portion of the district in which lie was a resident."

The Charges. Mr. Fisher next referred to the statements made by Air. Atmoro in tho House on tho subject of Air. Simpson's appointment. "I hold that the whole-tenor of Mr. Afcniore's speech was in tho direction of charging 1110 with having knowingly placed a man in a public position whoso character was such that he ought sot to have been appointed," said Air. Fishor. "Atr. Atmore* says, 'I made a charge'that tho lion, gentleman had made an appointment that (lid not redound to his credit.' He further says that the appointment js 'to the eternal disgrace of the Administration that made it.' Further, ho says that Air. Simpson's character 'is a matter of common knowledge.' Then lie adds, .'I say it is a disgrace to tho Cabinet that a man who is not considered fit to hold a. position in an obscure country hotel is. considered fit to represent tho people of New Zealand and the peoplj of Westport, and the Reform Cabinet as a member on /what, I repeat, is the third most important Harbour Board ■ in the Dominion.' There is no doubt in my mind that Air. Atmore intended to convey; and did convey, the suggestion that I knew all about Air. Simpson's record at the time of approval of his appointment. Mr. Isitt said in the House that 'ho would point out to the Alinister for Alarine that the charge against him was of an improper appointment, having regard to the character of the man in question.'

The Facts, "Having, I think, amply demonstrated that a cliarge was made, it becomes now* my bounden duty to state the facts. At the date of my recommendation of Mr. Simpson as a member of the board, I had no knowledge of any misdemeanour upon his part. Mr? Colvin, who is member for Buller, has stated in tho House that he had 110 knowledge of anything against Mr. Simpson's character. Since tho debate took place I have been informed by the Hon. R. M'Kenzie, who represents tlio district of Karamea in the House, that he knew nothing against Ml". Simpson until the statements were made in the House. Mr.- J. H. Greenwood, who was for the six years ending April last Mayor of Westport, lias written me as follows:— 'In regard to Simpson's case, I did not know of tho convictions. X did hear of some trouble over his license, but never knew what it was. I take it that if tho Karamea people had thought his character was not goO.!t they would not have elected him unopposed to tho Buller County Council.' "These statements, I think, prove conclusively that the assertion by Mr. Atmoro that Mr. Simpson's bad character was a matter of oommon knowledge had no foundation in fact. Mr. Simpson's Character. So far as Mr. Simpson's character, is concerned, I now desire to bring before tho Committee communications which have been . received by .me in respect thereto. From Karamea, which place elected Mr. Simpson unanimously to tho Buller County Council, I have received a petition signed by one hundred and seven persons, including Lieutenant-Colonel Clayton, N.Z., M.C., three justices of tho peace, the schoolmaster, the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, the local Government surveyor, and many settlers, miners, farmers, and others. The petition reads as follows:— "'We, the undersigned, have been shawn tho grounds of the attack made on Mr. W. E. Simpson. Though correct on the' face of them, they wero the outcome of a hostile and prejudiced clique. We consider that nothing alleged against Mr. Simpson in tho slightest degree tends to impair liis efficiency as a member of tho Westport Harbour Board. Having , known him for many years, wo are' satisiied that your choice of hini . could not be improved. Ho is an energetic and straightforward man, and most conscientious in the discharge of any public duty he takes.' "In addition to this, I received a telegram from R. Blackburn, chairman, Chamber of Commerce, Karamea, saying: " 'Consider attack made on. Simpson unwarranted, very unfair, and savouring of political spite. Getting testimonial signed by settlers, testifying to their confidence in Simpson's "straightforwardness and suitability to hold seat on Harbour Board.' "I am in receipt, also, of a telegram which reads as follows: — " 'At public meeting held at Seildonville last night the following resolution was unanimously carried: That tho residents of Seddonvillewish to convey to you our entire confidence in Mr. W. 11. Simpson as member of County Council and Harbour Board, and trust that recent happenings in the House will not be detrimental to him serving upon any public body. "'(Signed) HOPKINSOfc.' "Thfl Buller County Council has unani-

rnously passed the' following resolution "'That this council, deeply .sympathises with Air. Simpson and his wife and family in having the convictions for breaches of tho Licensing Act used against him in the manner it 'has, and, further, that this council lias no doubt of his honour and integrity, and that (lie general good conduct oi' Mr. Simpson entitles nim to the esteem in which he is generally held.' "This resolution was passed on the motion of Councillor Powell, seconded by Councillor Jleoker, a prominent _\'oLicense advocate. Every councillor present at the meeting spoke, and the resolution v.as carried unanimously. The Weapon Harbour Board had also unaniniousiy passed a resolution oi' sympathy with Mr. Simpson. "So far as Mr. Simpson'; appointment is concerned, 1 must leave it to the Committee to draw its own conclusions: (1) as to whether the ofi'ences alleged again'st Mr. Simpson were "common knowledge as stated by Air. Atmore; (i) as to wnctlier the direct charge made by Mr. Atmore, that I had made an appointment which was to the eternal disgrace of the Government, was justified; (3) as to whether 1, as Minister for Alarine, was aware of any, blemish upon the character of Air. Simpson at the date of his appointment to tlio Harbour Board. About Mr. Gillen. "In reiernce to the appointment of Air. Gillen, 1 desire to make a short statement. Early in Al'arch two Labour organisations wrote, and suggested the name of Air. John. Dowgray as a suitable person for appointment as Government nominee to thje hoard. Soon after this I left- for Australia. Upon my return two months later, the Harbour Board election was over. Mr. Dowgray was not a candidate. Labour had nominated Mr. Gillen. Mr. Gillen's nomination paper was signed by Mr. Hirter, who was the person who wrote and suggested the name of Air. Dowgray, on behalf of the Buller Labour Council. Indeed, Air. Ilirtcr actually nominated Mr. Gillen, and spoke on his platform. Evidently, Labour had changed its mind since Alarch. Mr. Gillen was next on the poll to the two elected candidates, /and Labour having failed to secure a seat, 1 recommended for appointment Mr. Gillen, whom I have never seen and never met. He was nominated and supported by the Buller Labour Council.' Mr. Atmorc's Statement. , "In regard to the statement put 'in by ilie Minister," said Air. Atmore, "the testimonials ho has read on behalf of the Government nominee are not worth the paper they are written on, in view of tho fact that tlis Cpmmittee will, have placed before-it a complete list of tho record of convictions against Air. Simpson. ... I stand to my statement in the House that it is a disgrace to the Cal> inet that-the Atinister knowingly (I did not say knowingly) or carelessly made the appointment. Tho facts in regard to the convictions might have been sa easily ascertained that it is a disgrace to the Cabinet that they did not ascertain these facts before such an appointment was made. If a man-puts in a claim for an old ago pension 'his pa<-;t is searched to see if ho is fitted for it. If a man is ■nominated for the office of Justice of tho. Peace his past is scrutinised." Mr. Isitt: Or a publican's license. Air. Atmore: This was a much more important position than that of an old age pensioner or justice of tho peace. lie has to do with the disposal of public money. The statement of a No-License advocate that Air. Simpson was a straightforward and good man was worth nothing in view of the fact that tho courts of the land had dccidcd' that Air. .Simpson was ' not fit to liold a publican's license in an obscure ulaoe like Karamea.. At tli-5 present fcimV Air. Simpson was considered unfit to hold a license of the most obscure publichouse anywhere in Ne.w Zealand. He had no fealing against Air. Simpson. His statement in the Horeo was made in consequence of various members of the Government saving that this, party only tWlfs proper appointments. He mentioned this car"! ljecaus# tho Licensing Committee having jurisdiction over ICaramea, wheire Air. Simmon's pubiichouse was situated, m:<t at Atotueka, IS miles from Nelson. The magistrate stationed at Nelson presided ovor both tho Nelson and Alotuekn. Licensing Committers. Air. Simpson. Air. Atmoro continued, was convicted ..of' four offences in February of last year. It was not ancient history as the chairman of th; Westport Harbour Board would have them believe. Neither were the offenees to lye excused on the ground that thoy were the outcome of hot-headed vnn'tli. It was abmt 17 months ago since these four convictions wore recorded." They were brought before the Licensing Committee at the Alarch meeting, and Afir. Simpson was asked to show cause at the annual meeting ill .Tune following as to why his renewal should not be refused. That would bo just over 13 months ago. and there wo« no ancient history about it. "I knew," continued Ah. Atmore, "that tii«?e convictions were recorded, and I stated most emphatically—notwithstanding all the testimonials to tlva excellenc? of Mr. Simpson's char-act-sr-that he is not a fit person to reoresent any Government on any local body in the Dominion." He had carefully refrained from dealing'with ancient history. As a fact, there were three other convictions recorded asrainst Air. Pimoson, tho earliest in 1007. and two in 1908, besides thfl four recorded in February of year.

Mr. At.niore thought tli.it, in addition to tho qufrafciin as to whether the Minister appointed Mr. Simpson knowing him to be an improper person to b» nnpointe<l. tho following questions should bo submitted fr> the committee:— "Did Mr. Atmore chargo the Minister for Marin? with having earelo=«lv made -m imiwoppr apnointment to the Wcstport Hfbour Roard?" nnd "I« it true, as alleged bv the member i'c<r Xelson. thai- «ovon convictions wkre re-oo-tWI nirain»t Mr. Rimp-on. who was opnoin+fd to the Woshwrt HjH'-oiw Board bv the Hon. the Minister for Marine, and, if co. wps tho memlier for Nelson justified in bringing the matter before the n^ass?" Mr. T-ee: In the manner reported in Hnnso.rd. Mr. Atmore preferred to <=übmit this part pe a i^sue —"Wes "Mr. atmore iustilWl in bringing it. before the Ho"=» in tli.? non:'"r renortfd in Hansard?" He took it that in their findings tli;; eommittrr) wmld have an opportunity of whether the Government should be TetpK-sM t-> toke tho neoissary [.-. remove "Mr. Pimp-on. Mr. Lee said that tho issues would in no way nrevent the committee f r °m mnkini such .1 recommendation. TTie committee could recommend that ' if necessary .""ciel ]«"»i?lntion could bo enable tho Government to remove Mr. .Simpson. Creating Vacancies. Mr. Colvin said he had never accused the Minister of making tho appointment knowing Mr. Simpson's record, but he did say now that the Minister was not justified in appointing him without inquiry into his character. Personally, ho had not heard, prior to his appointment, of the convictions against Simpson. Ho claimed, however, that the Minister had been unduly anxious to appoint this man from tho outlying district of Karamea. In order to do so, he had gazetted off the board two old members of the board, while four nominees of tho late Government would retire by Juno 30. Instead of making the choice of who should go off tho board by lot, the Minister had removed two particular men and appointed two others so that there would be a majority of members in favour of making Mr. Mnnro chairman of the board.

Mr. Fisher explained the somewhat complicated legal position which had compelled him to create two vacancies on the board. Mr. C'olvin was still unconvinced, and he declared that the Minister hod been unfair in his choico of the two men to be removed. He still held that there had been "political pull." Mr. Fisher: l'ou object to political PU Mr. Colvin said he did object to political pull. Later, ho added that it was the duty c-f the Minister to make proper inquiries as to tho character of the men to be appointed. Mr. Fisher: When you nominated the members of tho Inst Harbour Board, did the then Government make inquiry as to the character of tho nominees? Mr. Colvin: I never nominated a board. I had no power to nominate. Mr. Fisher: You wroto to the Minister, and submitted a list, and the Minister approved every one of them. I will put it on record. Mr. Colvin: I may have written to the Minister suggesting appointments, but had no powar to' nominate. 1 .Mr. Brailney said it seemed to him that the duty"of the board was to create vacancies, and if the board did not do so tho duty devolved upon tho Minister,

The "Usual Inquiries," Jlv. Fisher said ho would like, la ask the two ox-Cabinet Ministers 011 tho committee, Air. Laurenson and Mr. Colviu, whether it was tho custom in making appointments to get a polico report as to the character of the men appointed. Mr. Colviu. said that personally ho had no nominations to mnko .in his three months, but if ho were milking an appointment lie would make the usual inquiries. Air. Statham: What do you moan by usual.inquiries? That is just the point. •Mr. Colviu: 1 would make inquiries from the beat peoplo in the place. For instance, I would not go to the police to ask for your character. Ml'. Isitt paid it seemed to him the questions were coming out of their proper order in the course of the inquiry, and Mr. Fisher did not press tho questions further. Mr. Lee suggested that as Mr. At more had made the charges giving rise'to tho inquiry, ho should indicate ;vhat evidence he desired to call. Air. Atnioro said lie would like to have ths chairman of tho Alotucka Licensing Committer called, to prove that in the opinion of a magistrate Simpson wa9 not tit to hold a publican's license. Air. Leo said the convictions seemed to be sufficient evidence on this point. The opinion of tho magistrate had to be that Simpson was unfit to hold a license because in this particular the magistrate was bound by statute to find that Simpson, by reason of his previous convictions, was unfit to hold a lioense. Air. Atmore said he would also ask that Atr. Simpson should bo called, and also Mr. Fisher. He would ask, also, that the records in the Karamea, AVestport, and Mohieka Courts should be produced. The committee agreed that these three witness's—the magistrate, Mr. Simpson, and Mr. Fisher, .should be called. Mr. Fisher said he did not specially wish to call any witnesses. Perhaps it would bo well to call the chairman of the Harbour Board, who would be in town, the. Secretary for Marino to give evidence as to the usual course of procedure in inquiries as to prospective nominees, and the Hon. J. A. Alillar, an ex-Minister for Marine, to say whether it was tho practice to delve into ■ the police records before appointing anyone to a harbour board. Mr. J. Colvin asked tliat the secretary of tlie Westport Harbour Board should be called. It was decided to call these witnesses as suggested. Tho (aidjouraietl Until 0.30 a.m. on Tuesday.