COUNCIL REFORM BILL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1815, 30 July 1913, Page 6

COUNCIL REFORM BILL.

MR. EARNSHAW SPEAKS,

MANDATE OF THE COUNTRY?

" The Hon. W. EARNSHAW resumed tho debate on the second reading of the Legis.lative Council Bill. He said at the out- ! set that he was in accord with the prin, jciple of the Bill, and he thought tho i measure "tho greatest, tho wisest, and tho. truest measure that could come be'ioro tho Council." There was no doubt that reform "of tho Legislative Council ,was oho of the changes to which the Government wus committed irrevocably. Tho reform of tho Council 'had been before tho' - country longer than reform of the other House. The; other Houso. had been satisfactorily reformed, but the Council had been reformed only once since its construction, aud then only partly. At tJietimo-the reform'was not in tlio eyes, of those who made, it tho best and wisest reform, but the reform Which seemed the only .possible one to." get over great difficulties. ' lie was quite prepared to admit that the ideal Chamber would .be a nominative Chamber, if tho conditions antecedent to'its appointment wero ideal. But What was the good of talking about theories when they had to deal .with practical cases? When tlie passions and feelings of men were concerned, it was useless to aim at what was theoretically tho best, but at what would be of practical effect, 'and be of value to the State. It would bo always absolutely and totally impossible to have a satisfactory Council by the nominative system under party Government. Party considerations had ever .been^. paramount, , and' the abilities of the m'oii had Wen 'absolutely secondary. He l'oferred to tho speech of tho Hon. ■George Jones, who, without considering tho principles of tho Bill, had cried liko ■the uad boy, "Lemmo alone." To meet tho argument that tho Government had 110. mandate from the country to reform-' the Council, and should thereforo not i;o on with .the Bill, 110 quoted another instance'of-a great reform—tho introduction of the female franchise—which. had been introduced and passed without reference to the country. Ho challenged any honourable member to quote from Hansard to show that tho enfranchisement of women was a burning question in the country at tho time that the- Bill was taken up by the Government, after having been introduced by an Opposition member, Sir John Ilall. This last reform (of tho Council) ho considered tho final emancipation of the uprising masses, who liad been rising from' the timo of the commencement of representative Government. The measure was 110 leap in the dark; 011-tho contrary, the lesson, of tho past was that it was a.further advance into tho open light. Just so far as responsibility was put upon tho lower classes of society, just so far would they respond to maintain tho great institutions of the State. . Mr. Carncross had referred to "darkling clouds over us." Presumably lio had referred to tho. growth of syndicalism. It was certainly a wretched,, l«d movement, but there was no need todread it. This measure instead of having a weakening effect would have tho effect of (jverwhelming tho dangerous militant section-, l'n their stronghold of Grey they had only succeeded in electing their nominee, but in the big electorates proposed ■under the Bill the syndicalists would.be a negligible quantity. An objection had" been raised to the quota in favour of the country districts inflections, and it had been said that the Bill was objectionable because under proportional representation tho quota could not be retained. In his opinion tho quota. was not defensible, and any attempt to retain it would meet with opposition. Thero might be something to Lo said for. the,quota so far as it.afiected tho settlers ;n tho back-blocks, where communication was bad, but not as affecting the residents of thost districts adjacent to towns. Ho considered Air. Sinclair's scheme for a pnrtlv nominative, partly elective House to "bo' highlv ingenious and highly impracticable. Any evil existing under tho present nominative system would' be continued under Mr. Sinclair's proposed system, and also tho two sections of tho'House would not mix any more than oil and water. Another danger would be, that elected members, desirous of escaping- h'oubl" and expense of- election,- • 'might • iutrigno with tho Government for nomination. 110 could not understand why Mr. George' had offered his suggestion about tho property qualification for the franchise. Tile feeling of tho country was totally opposed to anything of the fort. Ho was sorry tho Bill did not contain some provision for tho increase of tlis honorariirai paid to members, teth of tho Hoiiso -and tho Council, to make it adequate. He would support'the Bill be", cause ho thought its principles weie«ound. 1 THE HON. J. ANSTEY. PRINCIPLE NOT AFFIRMED. . The Hon. J. ANSTEY said ha entirely disagreed with Mr. Sinclair's proposal that j tho Council should bo partly elected and partly nominated. He declared that tho Bill was not being called for by tho country. Hitherto, before any great reforms were introduced, there were always numerous public meetings, and much agitation before tho legislators took tho matter up. Nothing like this had occurred concerning this proposal to mako the Council elective. It had been said that the Council by agreeing to tho second reading of the Bill of last year had affirmed tho principle of an elective Council. His own reason for voting for the second wading was that he did not wish to throw out a Government measure unceremoniously. Ho did not. agree with the principal of an electivo Council. TIIO duties of the scrond Chamber were entirely distinct from tho functions of tho Lower House, and tho danger of making -the second Chamber elective was that it would be merely a replica of the primary Chamber. If an electivo Council were given liny real elfectivo powers, it would bo possible for tire Council to defy tho wishes cf tho democracy for as long as eight years. If it .had no powers, then it would bo useless, and it might Ire abolished. But if.it had powtirs, it would bo the dominant Chamber. As proof of this, he eitcd tho caso of tho United States Senate, which wju; 0110 of tho most undemocratic Cli.mi-

bers in the world, <md which was certainly tho dominant Chamber ir. tho United fctates Legislature. If tho Council -WEire to be eleotcd, he thought the only possible method would bo for the monitors of the House and ot the Council, sitting together, to elect nienibsrs to fill the vacancies in tho Council. The Leader of tho Council had asked tji? Council for .suggestions as to what thsy would accept 111 tho way of reform. I'or lii 3 part, lie did not specially want any chango in the constitution of the Council, but lie t.hoi.v;lit there was room for reform in the nominative system. It should bo made impossible lor any Ministry to nominate a member of tho Council after the Government had been defeated 111 the Lower House, or after it had lost its majority in the Lower House. Ho thought, also, that some provision should l>o made for members of the House on retirement, after having served 1 a reasonable number of years, so that it would not be necessary to reward them by appointing them to the Council. All that he had read about the results of proportional representation as it operated in Tasmania causcd him to distrust it. He had learned that success under tho proportional method of election de ; ponded 011 organisation, and it was impossible for the country settlers tv organise. Tile well-organised sections of the community would vote by ticket, and tho country voter, who had no "ticket," could not select his candidates out of a list of, My, thirty names, with all save two or three of which lie was unfamiliar. The effect of the system would be to disfranchise the country almost entirely. Ho did not tlfirtk tncre were half a dozen members of the Council ready to support tho Bill in its entirety. . 'The opinions of newspapers in discussing this Council reform wero already■ undergoing some modification, and tho reason was that tho question had not been before the public long. Ho would be no party | to putting through hasty, ill-considered , legislation until he knew what its effects i were likely to be. By voting for the Bill, members' would be signing the death warrant of the Council, and they would, ho believed, be choosing the quickest method of abolishing the Second Chamber altogether. If tho proportional representation method were persisted in, the real effect' would be to tako the power of ejecting representatives .-. to the Council away from the democracy, and to place, it in the hands of a few little cliques. .Representatives would really bo chosen in secret by some Star Chamber, the .executive of some big organisation. The debate was adjourned on the motion of the Hon. C. 11. Mills. Speaking to the motion for the adjournment, the Hon. H. D. Bell asked that members should arrange that lor the rest of the debate more than two members should prepare to speak on each day, in order that the Council should proceed with the debate with a greater degree of diligence. 'JJiie Council rose at 4.55 p.m.