ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1804, 17 July 1913, Page 8

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

' A LABOUR MEMBER. COST OF LIVING. Mr. W. A. VEITCH (Wanganui) complained that the Governor's Speech ivos' indefinite, and would afford no assistance to members who wished • to prepare themselves to discuss the Government's policy. In the'past, ho continued, too much had been spent upon trunk railways and too litjtle upon lines which might have connected up backbloclis' districts with ports. ' ' He dissented from the. Statement in the Speech that work was plentiful in country districts. As many as a dozen men Had called on one day at has office to ask. him to fiild work for them. In, most cases he had been compelled to tell them that, owing to the purity of the Government, he could do / nothing for. i them. , The Prime-Minister: Why'didn't they apply to the Public Works.Department, or to the Labour Department? The Hon. W. Eraser: They never came here. . - Mr. Veitch said that ho. had applied to the Labour Department on behalf of two men, but.hp'd been informed that'there .was np work'for .' Mr. Eraser: Why did they not try the Public' Works Department? : " ' • Mr. Voitch repeated that lie had applied to the Labo'ur.'Dephrtnieiit on behalf of two men,; and added that he had asked that, employment, should be found for these men at Gisborne. or anywhere else. He was informed that no work was available. He hoped the Government would 'seriously- apply itself to the problem of how to reduce ,tho cost of living, but in.his opinion mere reduction of Custom duties, would do ho good ...unless the Government took care to ensure thaf the whole of tho reduction would not be absorbed by traders in increased .profits., . to do good,-the i Government must attack the Merchants'' Association,, and .prevent'them from levying such heavy private..taS(itipn. upon the people; He thought -the'.principal cause of the high cost of living in New Zealand' was monopoly—land monopoly and com-' mercial monopolies. ■ He suggested that the Government should set up a board of industrial investigation to work in conjunction- with the Arbitration Court and the Labour Department; the purpose ot which board would be to keep the Government posted oil economic developments, so'that the Government might, by legislation or otherwise, -deal with the great . 'evil'of monopoly.' 1 Even, he suggested,' •the Government might fight monopolies by fixing'maximum prices abovo which commodities in conlmon could not be sold, i'or the small farmer the Government might set to work to', break up the Smith- ■ field ring, which 'was sweating the farm-; ers in -/By .this means the Government could do much more to help the farmers than they could by all the: laud reform the Ma'ssey Government .had premised.' He noted that the Government had .decided to amend tho Arbitration Act. He did not know what changes the Government proposed to make in the constitution of the Court, but in his opinion the trouble about the 'Court was'; that the President was a Supremo Court ' Judge. He said this, not out of disrespect for Judge Sim, who lie believed .was a most estimable gentleman. He had the highest possible opinion of the New Zealand judiciary, iand he certainly did not except Mr. Justice Sim. .His idea was that' the legal tyaining a lawyer unfitted a man to hold a position such as President of the Court. Rather, the Presidenf'of. the Court should be a good economist. He wished to warn those unions who'were now' ready to withdraw from the protection of the Act. There would assuredly comit times wlien things would not be so prosperous as they .now, i are, and, when there was unemployment, wages would soon go down unless the ' workers were protected by awards of the Arbitration Court. He commended the Government for having brought down a Bill for tho reform of the Uppei House. He hoped the Government would perssvere with the Bill, and that the principle of proportional representation , wculd be adhered to. He hoped that as a result of the introduction of proportional representation the workers would havt their fair -share of representatives.- It might end in the overthrow of the systom ■ at one-man Government, which certainly did exist: now. The party ruled tho House, the Executive ruled tho part} - , - and the Prime Minister ruled the Executive. Nothing hud .struck him more for- , : cibly since coming into the House than the weakness of a private member not associated with either of tho two great parties. Referring to what tho member for Otaki had said about Waihi, he said it seemed to him that the Minister should hold an imjiury into charges which were , -too serious to be overlooked. If these were untrue, then the Minister owed it to the force to clear them of the imputation cast,upon them, and. if they were, true, then some notice must be taken of them. He offered no opinion as to whether the charges were iustified or not. He thought the best way to provide lund for the landless would be to bring about tho cutting tip of estates by a small automatic annual increase in the graduated land t-a. THE MEMBER FOR THAMES. SPEAKS OF WAIHI. Mr. T. 'W. ! RHODES (Thames) commended the Government for the legislation pa-sell - last session, and expressed tin; hope that they would bring down other useful legislation. At 5.15 p.m. he was speaking to a very thin House, There were twenty members of the Government party, one alleged Independent, and Mr. G. Witty. Mr. Rhodes declared that tho statements made by Mr. Robertson about the action of the Government in regard to Waihi were not borne out by all that he had learned by inquiries made on, tho spot. If the Government had not. taken hold of the situation, there would certainly have been lawlessness, and the boast of the federationists that the streets would 1 run blood before they would give ill ! have been fulfilled. By their firm action ; the Government had earned the gratitude of the permanent law-abiding people of ; Waihi. whose oDinion was in direct peso-

| sition to that held by the honourable I member for Otaki. The integrity of the i coroner at Waihi had been questioned, but in actual fact his integrity was above suspicion. Mr. Rhodes emphasised the necessity of encouraging the further development of tho mining industry, and of settling the enormous unoccupied areas of Native land in the Auckland district. Ho was in favour of the Advances to Settlers Department lending more assistance to Natives than it had done in the past. The essential thing was that land, both Native and European, should be put to profitable use. He had 110 reason to complain of the rate at which public works had been carried on in his district during the past' year, but he hoped that the Reform Government would do more to push on roadmaking in the roadless north than had been done for years past. Mr. Rhodes, in the latter part of his speech, 'commended a number of the Government's more important policy proposals. MR. ISITT ON PARTY. DEFINES HIS POSITION. " Mr. L. M. ISITT (Ohrigtchurch North), after congratulating- the mover • and seconder', of the motion, affected to sympathise with the mover (Mr. C. A. Wi:kinson), saying that his Liberal sentiments would find no response from the Government party. He should come over to the Opposition, and he would be supported in. his Liberalism. Ho would feel the genial glow Mr. Wilson.: Something like beer. Mr.-Jsitt said he. was not a party man, but he would do his very best to help the Opposition to put the Government out. He did not associate himself with the Opposition party Mr. Massey: They don't want you. Mr. Isitt added that he' never went to the Opposition caucuses. He did riot do so because_he stood tu> an Independent; he would live an Independent Mr. Buick: Die an lifflependent. Mr. Isitt, amid much banter, said ho was a convinced Liberal, and proud of his .convictions. ' . Mr. Hine: You are tile only one that is. i Mr. Isitt sought to connect the present ! party with tlie "ill-starred National Association." The Dominion" had waved its .£BO,OOO wand and brought the Government party into being as a party; A Government member interj'ected that the Government did not' own (The Dominion. Mr. Isitt: -1 am prepared to believe) that the Prime Minister holds no shares in U'he Dominion, but The Dominion owns the Prime Minister. Having established thi3 to his satisfaction, he declared that The Dominion had recently, by referring to Mr. Michel as the first candidate for many years that had stood for Grey as a representative of the present Government party established the link between the present party and the old Conservatives. He asked, dramatically, with palms upraised: What about the National Ais now ? . >• Mr. Hine: Talking. (Laughter.) Mr. isitt, pointing another anbedote of which his speech had almost entirely, consisted, said: There. is an,, ojd'.aclagei: that children and fools speak' the" trutK. " ■ Mr. Hine: Which are you? Mr. Isitt forgot once, and used the phrase "Our leader." Government members: Oh, oh, who'is he? /' Mr. Isitt hesitated, amid much laughter from the Government party, and -'.answered: "I admit we are a littlo- bit mixed so far as leadership .is concerned." (Mtiro : laughter.) Mr. Isitt -/ met with ; more success ' when, seeking to give reasons for the difficulty a.bo,ut leadership.of the Opposition, and the absence of all difficulty on the Government side, he declared that it was easy l'o> get sheep to follow a leader. He shouted that Mr. Massey was simply the bell-wcther : -(loud laughter)—pushed and driven by Messrs.. Duthie,- Buchanan, Bell, the banking institutions, and tho monopolists,' and the party followed, him. Referring to the telegram that Mr. Massey had spoken of the previous evening containing an oiler to 9purchase a block recently bought by the Government, lie said.itjwas clearly .-a fake telegram. . Sir Walter Buchanan: It was not a fake. Mr. Isitt: I say it ivas a fake. . ' •. Sir Walter Buchanan: I know better. . Mr. Isitt: It was. Sir Walter Buchanan: I know and you don't. .

Mr. Isitt still argued that the letter was a fake, a Lit of stage scenery, maintaining that the man who sent it knew the Government could not sell it. lit- had never heard* "he said, a lamer excuse than that offered by the Prime Minister for ' parting with the New Lynn leases. He contended that it was a monstrous transaction, and that if the Government had lptained possession of the land it would havo meant eventually hundreds of thousands of pounds to the pKople of this country. From what' the Government had done it appeared that the unearned increment of land in the possession of the State was to bo dissipated for no other reason that he could see tlian to catch votes.' Was it conceivable that any private' person would have parted with the land on such conditions? Mr. Pearoe: Yes, if tho lease were on it, of course Tie would. Mr. Isitt said that it seemed to him that there was 110 statement that the Government members would baulk at. The state' ment of the member for Patea was too ludicrous to waste time over. If he were a full member of the Liberal party, and r.ot only an associate member, he would advise it to put tills record of this immoral deed into every house in the country, and if that would not kill tlile.great Reform Government lie did not'know what would. It the appointment of Mr. -Hoyd Garlick had been made by the Liberal party, tlie Minister for Education would have surpassed himself in condemning it. If Mr. Royd Garlick were the abllsst man in New Zealand, the manner and method qf the appointment would still be sufficient to condemn it. The appointment was inexcusable, and hail it been made hv tire Liberal Government every man 071 rhe other side of the House would have been up to denounce it. In thi? latter part of hi.; speech, Mr. Isitt spent some minutes in elaborating an assertion that tho Government party was pre-eirainently the party of the squatters and of land monopoly. , MR. LEE RETORTS. FAITH IN THE GOVERNMENT. Mr. E. P. LEE (Oainaru) said he had been muoh entertained and amused by the speech of the, member for Christcliurch North, but he had been in nowise instructed. He suggested that tho Opposition party were using the debate as -a trying-out test of 'the debating power, cleverness, weakness, incapacity, and follies of the different ' members, and when, the debate was over they were to retire into their own Wllip's room and the leader was to 1«! selected by ballot. But the House had learned nothing from tho speeoh of the member for Christchurch North; perhaps they had had a little amusement out of it. Mr. Isitt had said the Government party had decried titles. Mr. Isitt: So you did. Mr. Lee: The party has never decried titles as titles; this party has never decried titles except irnero they were not deserved, and titles havo beea bestowed by the lato Government on their friends when they were not deserved. Mr. Isitt: Name one man. Mr. Nosworthy: Sir John Finllay. Mr. Lee said, further, that 'a wrong ith.ing had been done when the leader of the late Government had taken a hereditary title. K Mr. Russell (shouting): That's the gift of tho King. That's the gift of the King. Long livo the Kingi j

Mr. Lee quoted the opinion of Mr. Fowlds, once a Cabinet ..Minister of the late Government party. Mr. Fowlds hail said the party was usiiiff tho namo-label-of Liberalism and deserting all its principles. He advised Mr..lsitt that he (Mr. Isitt) knew about as much of the land question as he (Hd about what liorse would win the next Grand National. He challenged Mr. Isitt to prove that the telegram read bv Mr. Massey was a fake. Mr. Isitt: II is a fake. Mr. Russell: You know as a lawyer 'the Govornijient could not sell the land. Of course, it's a fake. Mr. Lee said Mr. Isitt had got into "a horrible mess" by confusing settlement land with Crown "land. He had spoken with palpable lack of knowledge about the purchase of lands at New Lynn. He did not even know the period of the leases; how then could ho speak of the terms on which they could be disposed of? Mr. Lee reminded Mr. Isitt_ that the Red Federation of Labour 'had' publicly disowned the Liberals, so that if they wanted to get returned at next election they would have to' do it off their own bat. They would not get tine backing of tho lied Federation, Mr. Isitt (decisively): Wle don't want it; we don't want it. Short-dated Loans. 'Mr. Lee said that at least the House had had some kind of a definite statement from the Opposition about shortdated debentures —- Mr. Witty: Thlc-y. never said so. (Loud laughter from the Government benches.) Mr. Lee: What did*they not say? (Renewed laughter.) They have said that short-dated debentures arc> only to be taken up in case of dire necessity. It is admitted by the other aide that the shortdated debenture is a thing that should not be taken up; that loans should be for a reasonable time. But they tell us we should take up short-dated debentures when the interest is high. Very well; we shall tabs tho five million loan taken lip for four years by Sir Joseph Ward. Will lion, .members of the other side say that .was'a loan to be taken up in short-dated debentures? That is just one of the things we criticise. Mr. Isitt: Wo have justified it. Mr. Fraser: No, yon haven't. Mr. Lee: If the interest was high and there was necessity for short-dated deben-, turcs, the right should not have teen given to convert it into a ; long date Tom at a hish rate of. interest. Mr. Macdonald: The Minister lor Finance says it can't be concerted! Mr. Fraser: Not now. Mr. Lee: Of course, not now Thev won't touch it with long tongs. The rate of interest is high. He went on to blamn the Government for having allowed all theso short-dated debentures to mature at practically the same time, so reckless had they bsen. Tt was the, Government policy now to abolish the short-dated debenture system, and to adopt tho sane and reasonable one adopted by the Minister for Finance when he was in London. A; Discredited Ministry. The member for Oamaru got into .conflict with tho Opposition over a statement that the Ward Government had never had the mandate of the people. . Amidst a chorus of Opposition interjections, lie asked whether the Mackenzie Government had carried the mai&late of tho people. Members on the Opposition benches made various allusions to "rats," and one of them added,. "tho poor miserable creatures." Mr. G. W. Russell:. We'd lmve beaten the head off you if we had gone to_ the country!" Mr. Lee said that the House was one of 80 liiembei'jr. At the time when tho Mackenzie Government took office the House contained 38 pledged supporters of the Massey party, or, ho would say, 38 members pledged against the Ward Administration. Did the Mackenzie Government suggest that they had any ' reason to think , that they would hnv» the support or the member for Dunedin Central. Mr. Millar? Mr. Russell: He was prepared to lead tho party! Mr. Lee .said that Mr. Millar made 3D against the Mackenzie Ministry. After what the member for Motueka had said about them in the debate, it seem<?d that members of the Mackenzie Government ; could not have looked for the support of that member. . He,'"therefore, made' 40. Had they e.TDeeted the support of the member for Thames? Oppositionists: Wo did not know him then. t Mr. Lee: Did you ask him? Forty-one. 'Did you expect that you were going to have tho support of the member for Ivaipara? Mr. Witty:'He camo in pledged to Ward. Mr. Coates shook his head. • Mr. Lei: Forty-two! Then the member for Hutt, ho continued, when he. came back from England and saw what a state the party was in, put his foot oil the soft pedal and said ho was as free as the birds of the air. This made fortythree men in the House that the Mackenzie Government had never had the support of and it therefore had never-had any right to carry on the affairs of the country. Mr. Laurenson:, Give us something about tho Address from the Crown! Mr. Lee repeated that the Mackenzie Government had never had any right to carry on the affairs of the country. He was not 'going to sympathise with its troubles which had, been brought on by the party that left office. Mr. Isitt at this stage interjected: "Don't look so fierce." Mr. Lee: I.should not like to look like you do, anyway f (Laughter.)

Whose the Blame? » Lee replied to .the charge that the Government had been extravagant by a detailed analysis of the expenditure of the Massey Government during tho year 1912-13,' as compared with that of' the previous vear, showing that the Government had left tho finances in a much healthier state at the end of the year than they had been left by the other party at the end of the previous year. A great deal, lie said, had been said about reaggregation, but in no way was the charge relating to aggregation to be laid at tjie door, of the-Government p®rty. As 11 new member he was concerned to know how it was that the Liberal Administration had allowed large estates to last year after year when they had such a large mujority behind them. At any time they could, with their huge majority, lmvo passed legislation to end the aggregation. On the other hand the Heform party had in one, year increased the graduated land tax. Referring to the Public Service Act, he said it was easy for the Opposition to criticise it, but if they got into power they would never dare to repeal it. ' The Opposition said generally that the whole Service was up in arms against the Bill. The Opposition doubtless wished they were, but the fact was that 99 per cent, of the Civil Servants were glad of tho protection the Act afforded to the Service from tKfe political influence they had been subject to for the last twenty years. The Government was accused of making appointments to Harbour Boards and the like that wero political appointments. Why had the Opposition riot told the House a little more—about thoso cases in which tho men appointed or reappointed were the enemies of the Government? Was it the act of a Government anxious to hold patronage to bring down a Bill to make the Legislative Council elective? Mr. Lee said the firm and practical way in which tho Government had handled the strike at Waihi had established the Government in the confidence of the community. Right Principles. "I believe that throughout ■ the length and .breadth 'of the country," lie said, "there is satisfaction that the- affairs of this country are being managed by the present party, that they are carrying out the promises which they have made, that they will handle the finances of this country in a satisfactory manner, that they will legislate and administer not for one section of the community, but for tho benefit of tho whole, that they will carry out their promises which they made in respect to further relief to old age pensioners and those people who are unfortunate in life, wlio are decrepit. And, speaking generally, I givk? this party my support not from a party- point of view, but because I think it is a party which is dominated by right principles. It seems to me to be a party whose object and aims are to do well for this Dominion, and so long as they are acting in that direction they will get not only tho support of the present members of the House, but when they go before tho people, as they will next year, they will find that their government, their administration, which has been just and wise, has tho approbation of the people, and they will come back to the House not only with the large majority they have- now, but with a larger majority that will keep them in office for a considerable timo to como-'i

A DUNEDIN MEMBER. ELECTORAL REFORM. Mr. T. K. SIDEY (Dunedin South) was the last speaker. He continued the party fight so vigorously sustained by the last two speakers, but the vigour relaxed a good deal. Mr. Sidey followed the line of previous speakers, seeking to show that the Government party were now taking credit to themsehrs for what they had refused to allow credit to the late Government, and were now applauding or excusing in their own Government what they condemned bitterly in the late Government. He urged the Prime Minister to let the House and the country know as soon as possible what his electoral reform proposals were in reference to the Lower House. If the intention was to postpono the Electoral Bill to the eleventh hour, it ■would be reasonable to infer that nothing more would be proposed than the repeal of the second ballot. It seemed to him that the Government would almost be forced into adopting the system of preferential' voting in single electorates. On the subject of advances to workers, Mr. Sidey said that one of his constituents had applied to the Advances Department for a loan of ,£450. On August 6, 1912, he was informed that lie would be advanced ,£350, and the letter of the Superintendent of Advances further stated that the loan would be increased if he erected a retaining wall. This work the applicant carried out, but upon applying for the additional loan of t £2s which the Dunedin office of the Advances Department had led him to expect, he was informed (in February last) that the additional loan could not be mode, as the board was refusing all loans of a greater amount than <£300. Tlio Hon. Jas. Allen: Why doesn't he apply again; the limit has been raised to .£•100 now? Mr. Sidey said that lie was surprised that the Sinister should make such a reply. It was true that there liad been n. change in the personnel of the Advances Board while the transaction he had mentioned was current, but surely the Minister would not assert that one board was justified in repudiating the engagements entered into by its predecessor. Finally, Mr. Sidey contended that the record of the Liberal party during its twenty-one years in office would bear'cxamination, and that the "gentlemen on the other side" were surrounded by an atmosphere from which they could not escape. Mr. J. A. YOUNG (Waikato) moved the adjournment of the debate, and the Houaj rose at 11.35 p.m. • -