ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1797, 9 July 1913, Page 8

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

PROMOTING INDUSTRIAL PEACE. CANADIAN SYSTEM RECOMMENDED. Mr.' G. R. SYKES (Masterton) said the burden "Of the Opposition-i criticism' had been thtit' the Speech was devoid of verbiage. It was time that tho Speech was not profligate of promises, but lie was satisfied that the promises it did contain would bo kept. It outlined a programme that would keep the House busy for many months, lor the settlement of industrial disputes, Mr. Sykes recommended the adoption of the Canadian system, under which thirty days'.notice had to be given by either masters or men in tho event of a strike or lock-out as the cass might be. He strongly urged the secret ballot in all cases where a strike was projected.'Married women, also, should be allowed to have a vote in such ballots, because they and their children were the chief sufferers when a strike occurred. He denied that land taxation had not increased,'and defended the purchase of a portion of the Beetham Estate, in the Wairarapa. It was an impossible thing, he said, to purchase first-class land 15 miles -from one of the best markets in New Zealand at per acre, but half of the land purchase'd was ploughable, and would repay the application of fertilisers. He felt suro that this purchase of 5000 acres wa9 an excellent bargain for the State. Four or five settlers would make a good living on the block. ' Mr. Russell: How much will it cost to. manure it?

Mr. Sykes: About as much as at Runanga. Mr. Russell: Well, I- will sell you Runanga at £1 per acre! Mr. Massey: Will you sell it at the Government valuation?

Mr. Russell: Well, I will consider that if you will take it under the compulsory provisions.

Mr. Massey: That is not answering my question. Mr. Sykes went on to emphasise the .desirability of opening up the -Eastern Wairarapa by means of a. line of light railway. He contended that at present taxation pressed with undue _ severity upon married people with families. Tho policy outlined in tho Governor's Speech was a good policy. It was one that would mako for the'good of the people as a whole.' SHORT-DATED LOANS DEFENDED. AS A TEMPORARY EXPEDIENT. Mr. A. M. MYERS (Auckland East) congratulated the mover and seconder in the debate,, and tho preceding speaker upon the .tenor of their utterances, and Mr. Speaker upon his recent election. He denied that tho Mackenzie Government had attained office by a trick, as had been stated in a newspaper. The Governor's Speech, said Mr. Myers, was a colourless document. Dealing with, his comments on the remarks made by tho non. P. M. B. Fisher, at Melbourne, on tho subject of the Dreadnought gift, Mr. Myers contended that the cabled summary of the Minister's speech justified what he had said. He had always avoided making defence a party question, and considered that the Minister for Marino had neglected to do so. The compulsory military training system, Mr. Myers stated, was now, in his opinion, firmly established, notwithstanding the foot that it was disapproved by a small section of the community. The idea of a voluntary expeditionary force, Mr. Myers stated, had been first entertained in the time of the. late Mr. Seddon. He defended the action ho had taken as. Minister for Finance in tho Mackenzie Ministry, in raising the four and a half million loan. Owing to the financial stringency at that time, it was impossible to raiso a loan.on reasonable terms. His predecessor, Sir Joseph Ward, had considered it advisable to leave it to the then Opposition to make their own arrangements regarding the next loan. Three millions of the five million loan were at that timo still unconverted. Money hail to be borrowed at once, to replace that temporarily borrowed by his predecessor in Under the circumstances, ho contended that he had served tho interests of the country in raising a loan which had provided the amount required for this purpose, and in addition a sum of .£1,600,000 for public works. Speaking with a full sense of responsibility, ho would say that when money was cheap, he was not in favour of short-dated loans for a borrowing country, but when money was dear one was justified in floating short-dated loans. He would be very glad if the present Minister for Finance would obtain a return showing the cost of the short-dntcd loans obtained by this country during the last twenty-one years. It would then be shown whether shortdated loans had been in the interests of this country or not. Mr. Allen said that tho lato Premier J

had obtained a good deal of money from the I'ost Office at three per cent.

Mr. Myers said that the return might show totals including and excluding these amountr. He continued that the Minister for Imnanco had not yet finished particulars of the allocation of tlio late loan, incliMing tlio ,£600,000 last raised. Mr. Allen said ho would table the information on'the morrow. Mr. Myers stated that when lie floated the four and a half million loan he furnished particulars of tho allocations to the House within three weeks. Ho denied that Mr. Allen had achieved a financial coup in London. Other loans, ho stated, had been obtained on belter < terms at about the same time. As to comparisons with tho four and a half million and other loans, it was the ultimate cost that must be taken into account. The Minister for Finance had said, and high financial authorities supported the statement, that ho believed that money would be cheaper in the future. If, when tho market eased it became possible to convtrt the four and a half million loan at 3J per cent., and at 91, the result of the flotation of tie shortdated loan would be to save this country half a million. It might not yet prove to have been a good investmtmt to raise the thrco million loan at i per cent., when by raising a short-dated loan for a few years the Government would have secured tire money ultimately for a long term at 31 per cent. They were all delighted that tho revenue had gone up, but where was the indication that the expenditure was Ruing to bo kept" down as the Reform Government had promised it would? Alleged Extravagance. Tho ratio of expenditure to revenue had gone up by one per cent, under this Government. Mr. Allen: Who says so? Mr. Myers: I say so. Mr. Allen: On what do you base your calculations?

Mr. Myers: I have them all here. Mr. Allen: I wish you would send them over.

. Mr. Myers said that he had not his calculations all worked out clearly, but he quoted the .figures on which lie based his conclusion. He twitted the Minister for Finance with having failed to put into operation_ his previously expressed belief that sinking funds were merely traps for Treasurers, and that it would bo wiser w"hen there was a surplus to pay off some of the debt than to pay it into tho sinking fund to be taken on somo pretext by some succeeding Treasurer. He was glad, however, that tho present Minister was not going to appropriate the sinking funds.

Mr. Allen: I havo had a very good example set mo by every other Minister. Mr. Russell: No, no. Mr. Allen: Yes, ever)- one of tliem. You were not long enough in office.

Mr. Myers: More's the pity for New Zealand. He went on to quote from Mr. Allen's speeches, and to challenge statements made by,him and other members of the Government party that the success of . the loan w.is duo to the advent in office of the Reform party.- A good deal had been said .about the condition of the finances when the Government took office. Mr. Allen: Well, tell me how did you .find them. N Mr. Myers: Oh, I found Treasury nearly empty, but I immediately flooded it with money. Mr. Allen: What was the balance when you left? Mr. Myers: Probably the amount you stated in your Budget. I don't doubt that for a moment. He thought the Government should have increased the Tate to depositors in the Post Office ten months earlier; if they had, the unfortunate position disclosed in the affairs of the Post Office Savings Bank would not have como about. Mr. Allen: I think you are wrong. Mr. Myers went on to say that the Government had 'come into office on a splendid wicket financially, and that only ,£1^70,000 worth of loans would fall due during the year 1913-14. Mr. Allen: Tell us.about 1911-15. Mr. Myers: Close on eight millions. Mr. Russell (to Mr. Allen): You won't be in office then. Mr. Myers: I am afraid I shall have to mako arrangement for that myself. And I. won't shirk the responsibility. Ho ooncluded with, a general condemnation, of the working of the Public Service Act, suggesting that under it employees were sometimes treated harshly in the matter of short notice of dismissal. He would ; have preferred -to have, seen a Minister chairman; of the board. THE HON. A. L. HERDMAN. P.UBLIC SERVICE ACT UPHELD.' Tho Hon. A. L. HERDMAN said ho did. not agree with the observations of tho honourable gentleman about the working of the Public Service Act, nor did ho believe that a Minister should be chairman of the board. The Ministry's experience of the Act was, that it relieved them from the vexatious business of making appointments to the Service, and he believed that tho Service had now a rallying point it never had before. Members of the Service realised that they might look forward with confidence to tho future, as they could not before. Tho complete elimination of political patronage had imposed in tho Service tho belief that now members of the Service would succeed if they showed merit, that now when a man worked hard ho would gain the approbation of the Commissioner, and that never ogain would a man who had got into the Service by political influence stand in the way of the advancement of members entering it in the regular way.

Mr. Russell: Why aren't the polico under it?

Mr. Herdman replied that it was just as impossible to havo the police under the Commissioners, as it would be to have tho Army and the Navy in England under Commissioners.

3lr. Russell: -You have hung Dn to all tho patronage you could keep. Mr. Herdman repeated that, in tho interests of tho State, it was necessary that disciplined fdrces should l>e under tho direct control of the Government of the day. He still adhered to the opinion that tho railway service should bo controlled by Commissioners, but by different Commissioners from those in charge of tho Public Service. His' colleagues, however, did not share in these opinions, and he recognised as a very great improvement on the existing order, the appointment le take charge of the railway service of an imported general manager of proved experience. He' was sure that Mr. Hiley would, in a few years, make gTeat improvements in our railway administration. Tho honourable gentleman had just said that the Governor's Speech was ''bald and colourless." But had tho honourable gentleman ever seen a Governor's Speech or a King's Speech that, was anything else. Did he expect it to bristle with wit and epigram. One honourable gentleman had said the Speech was clever. Ho did not proposo to traverse tho speech of Mr. Jlyers, who, he believed, had, as Minister for Finance, been more sinned ngainst than sinning. It was quite true that ho was unfortunate in having to take control of the finances of tho colony at a lime when they were in a very bad condition. The House had been told, however,' that loans could have be-m floated for ten years at a satisfactory rate just after tho election, but a loan'was not obtained then, and no satisfactory explanation had been offered as to tho reason why the loan had not been floated. Then, of course, money had to be raised later by Mr. Myers on a "inch worse market.

Tho honourable gentleman had declared that when the Balkan war trouble subsided the financial stringency would ease considerably. He (Mr. Herdman) was informed, on the contrary, that the war in tho Balkans had little to do with the financial stringency. Mr. Myers: What authority have you for saying that? Mr. Herdman: A gentleman connected with the London Stock Exchange. He went on to say that the extraordinary activity in trade and industry in tho Old Country was the cause of the shortage of money for foreign investment. Ho Imd tho authority of the Minister for Finance for saying that a remarkable improvement had taken place in our finances in the last twelve months, not only in regard to our own accounts, but in regard to the credit of the colony generally. In respect of every public account the liabilities were less than when they took office, and the amount available for public services generally had increased. Honourable gentlemen, even on the other side of the House, would welcome that statement with a great deal of pleasure. (Hear, hear, from tho Opposition bcnchcs.) Armour of Proof. The [nature which impressed one in tho debate so far was the complete absence of damaging criticism from tho other side, j Honourable gontleinon had failed to find J

any fault in tho administration of the Government during the past twelve months, liven tho member for Avon, in his accustomed booming stylo, had failed to find a joint in the Government's armour. Tho member for Otaki had-ap-parently como forward as tho champion of the rioters and law-breakers at Waihi. No doubt his constituents would understand the attitude of their member. The Government had handled the trouble at VWnihi with . care. If it had not done so there was no saying what might have happened. Tjio effort of tiie Government Juui been to protect a body of hard-working men who desired to fojlow their ordinary avocations, from another body of men who had endeavoured to prevent them doing so. In carrying out this difficult task, tho police wero abusul and insulted, but they carried it out successfully. He wished to refer to the tactful way in which the head of tho police, Commissioner Cullen, had controlled an extremely difficult situation. T'lio member for Utaki had said that the action of the police in searching tho houses of Federationists for firearms had given an indication of what was brewing. As a fact, tho polico made no attempt to gather in revolvers and other firearms until the .Federationists had shot Constable Wade. The honourable gentleman (Mr. Robertson) might smile, but ho had stood not as the champion of these mc-n

Mr. Robertson protested against tho words of the Minister. His charge against the Government was that it was responsible for the lawlessness that had occurred.

The Minister said that ho hoped to convince the honourable gentleman. He repeated that no firearms were collected by the polico until Constable Wade was shot. Did the honourable gentleman say they were not justified in doing that? Mr. Robertson: Did they search both lots?

Mr. Herdman recalled that Johnston was shot, and also Constable Wade, and that the latter pursued Evans, who had a loaded revolver in his possession and knocked him down with a baton.' Tho honourable gentleman said that this Administration was responsible for the death of Evans. He (the Minister) contended that the constable had been fully jutsified. Mr. Robertson at this stage sought to intervene again, saying that ho had been misrepresented. Mr. Speaker told him be would have his opportunity when the Minister concluded his speech.

Mr. Robertson persisted, but was silenced by loud cries of "Chair" from Government members.

Mr. Herdman said that it was true that ho had been asked to change the venae of the inquest upon Evans, but ho had declined to do it becauso he saw no reason for doing so.

The Huntly Trouble Mr. Robertson had criticised tho action of the Government in sending police to Huntly. This action was not taken until a union secretary had been set upon and roughly handled and windows had been broken with missiles. The police were not sent until it was evident that people were likely to be placed in a dangerous position, and that property might be interfered with. He ventured to believo that they had averted trouble in Huntly. It was absolutely untrue, the Minister stated, reverting to AVailii, that a man had been put into Avondale Asylum to prevent his oppcarance as a witness. Mr. Payne: You daren't face an inquiry. Mr. llerdman:'lf the honourable gentleman can't keep quiet Mr. Buick: l'ut him in the asylum. Mr. Herdman said that the man in question gave his evidence before his committal to Avondale. The statement on tho subject made by the honourable member for Otaki was just a3 absurd as , some others he had made. . The Appeal from Waihl. The Minister read a letter which was si-jnod by 28 residents of Waihi, and which was sent to tho Prime Minister in September last. In this letter it was ■pointed out that an intolerable position of industrial warfare existed at Waihi, and that tho town was threatened with financial ruin. Tho people signing .tho letter appealed to tho .Government to take steps to preserve order, and it was only after, this that the police wore sent to Wailli. Thfi conditions existing at Waihi at that time wore a disgrace to New Zealand. (Hear, hear!) Not only were men who desired to pursue their callings insulted by the strikers, but tho latter's. womenfolk were imported into tho disturbances, and they paraded the streets and used language which .could not bo repeated in the House. The position was simply intolerable in any civilised community. There wore a great many decent, hard-working men amongst the strikers, but they were jnisled by the tactics of their leaders. The strike was ill-conceived and badly managed, and the loaders were to blame for tho proceedings. If thero wcro many hard-working men amongst the strikers-who were now in poverty as a result of the strike, tho blame rested not at the door of the Government or of the arbitrationists, but at tho door of the men who led the strike. (Hear, hear!) Ho hoped that tho day. was fa.r distant when such a state of affairs as had occurred at Waihi would again occur in Now Zealand. He regretted that any member of the House .should stand up as an advocate for men who were anarchists and law-breakers, who were guilty of "using disgusting language, and brow-beating innocent people.

Public Trust Office. Mr. Herdman next dealt with tho Public Trust Office. A commission had been set lip to investigate) the affairs of the office, and one gentleman connected with the Arbitration Court (Mr. M'Cullough) had declared that the investigation took place at the instigation of the lawyers. But the inquiry had, in fnct, arisen out of tho comments of tho -Public Service Commission set up by tliß Mackenzie Government, which were condemnatory in some measure of the administration of the Public Trust Office. Mr. Forbes, tho member for Hurunui, had even asked for an inquiry. But yet Mr. M'Cullough, a gentleman who was virtually in the position of a judgo deciding cases on evidence, had said, in effect, that the- legal members of the Government had - been instructed to make a report ill the interests of tho lawyers of the Dominion, and not in the interests of the office. This was absolutely uiitrue. Could more capablo gentlemen have been found to conduct the inquiry? Jlr. Macintosh had held many (responsible positions, some of them of a semi-public character, and Mr. Hosking was a lawyer>of proved integrity and ability. And yet Mr. M'Cullough would cast reflections on 0 thoir actions. When honourable gentlemen came to read tho report of the commission they would know that it was the ablest report ever mode upon, any Department of the State. The Government had no idea of crippling the Public Trust Office. The commissioners had suggested that tho constitution of .the board should bo altered—that the Auditor-General and two business men, one from a city and one having knowledge of country affairs, should be added to the board. The report strongly emphasised the fact that the burden resting on the shoulders of tho Public Trustee was fast becoming too great for him to bear. Tho Government oroposed to introduce a Bill this session to givo effect to this recommendation of the commissioners. They had also recommended that a separate trustee be apisointed to deal exclusively with Native land matters. This proposal also would be embodied in the Bill. They had also suggested that beneficiaries in estates should have facilities provided for them of ventilating their grievances and having them investigated. The Public' Trustee was year by year called upon to do moro and more gratuitous work, and tlie more work ho had (o do for nothing the less thero was for beneficiaries to reccive. Mr. Wilford: It makes a huge profit now. Mr. Herdman: I am very glad the honourable gentleman mentioned this point. Apart from the profit which the Public Trustee makes from investments of the common fund, the Public Trust Office is run at o loss. The loss, he added, was not a very big one—about ,£UOOO or J24000 a year. lie concluded by contradicting certain minor calumnies which had been circulated against him. Jlr. .J. ROBERTSON (Otaki) made a personal explanation. The Minister had, lie said, grossly misrepresented him in charging him with being a champion of tho rioters in AVaihi, and with boing the advocate of anarchy. Ho (Mr. Robertson) had never said a single word even in defence of tho strike. He had never said o word that could be construed into a defence of anarchy or riot. His whole charge was that tho action of tho polico was calculated to produce riot and anarchy. He declared that the Minister's statement was based on the os-part? state-

nient of the accused person (Commissioner Cullen) who, far from being able to controll Waihi, had been unable oven to control himself.

THE MEMBER FOR NELSON. AN APPOINTMENT ATTACKED. Mr._ 11. ATMORE (Nelson) said that the ■ Speech was tho most barren document that had ever been placed beforo a Parliament in New Zealand. Ho spoko of tho Hon. A. L. Herdman as "a crusted Tory" who had wandered into a twentiethcentury environment, with which, he was out ot sympathy, and which he would soon find out of sympathy with him. Mr. Atmore defended tho formation of tUe Polico Association, and bitterly denounced attempts to suppress it. He attacked tile administration of Commissioner Cullen, and asserted that public sympathy would go out to Constable Smyth. Ho next spoke of tho Hon. P. M. B. Fisher, and asserted that ho was getting uneasy m his seat, and that a writ of eviction would be served on him in 1914. Because tho Minister for Marino . was a No-License advocate and a bare-majority man, ho should have been tho last member of tho Cabinet to approve the appointment of a Government nominee on the Westport Harbour Board. This was a man who liad been twico convicted for using obscene language, twico for permitting drunkenness on his premises, once for selling liquor in prohibited hours, onco for playing unlawful games, and onco fer assault.

• Mr. Fisher: Give liis name. Sir. Atmore: I will givo you liis ramo and all the particulars you want. Here is a man whom the Licensing Committee gave three months to get rid of his license—this Simpson, of Karamea—but tho Rainbow Minister considers that he is fit to represent the people on the third most important harbour Aboard in the Dominion. Continuing, Mr. Atmoro stated that fifty shareholders in The Dominion newspaper owned three million pounds' worth of land. Ho advocated a stiff graduated tax, so stiff that at its maximum it would. represent 20s. in every £of annual value. Ho condemned the local navy proposal as an insane idea. Nothing in tho Dominion would progress as it should until tho land monopoly, in Ilawke's Bay and other parts of tho Dominion had been broken up. To solvo the problem of land monopoly would be to solve also the problem of defence. The Westport Appointment. The Hon. F. M. B. FISHER said that he assumed that the member of the Westport Harbour Board to whom 'the hon. gentleman had referred was Mr. Simpson. An hon. member: Thero is only one Simpson on the board. Mr. Fisher said that he wanted to state, for tho information of the House, the reasons of Mr. Simpson's appointment. Otherwise it might appear that he had done something that wns very wrong and that was a reflection upon himself and upon the Government. Mr. Simpson represented Karamea on the Harbour Board and he had been selected for the position because he was tho most recently-elected, representative of the Karamea district upon the Buller County Council. It had seemed clear that tho most suitable man to represent Karamea on the Harbour Board was the man whom the people of Karamea had returned to tho county council. • Mr. Gillen, another nominee, had Ijeen. put on tho Harbour Board because ho was tho next man on the poll. ' Mr. Colvia: What about tho Mayor, who had tho largest number of votes? | Mr. Fisher: Messrs. Munro and Scanlon became members of the board. I took tho third man, Mr. Gillen. Tho other nominee is Mr. Simpson. Mr. Isilt: And now that you know his character, will you take him off? ■Mr. Fisher: I don't know his character. I am going to verify that. Mr. Isitt: If you verify hia character will you take him off ? Mr. Fisher: I am not going to toko him off on what the member for Nelson says. Mr. Isitt: If it is right, will you take him off ? Mr. Fishe/: I think he might como off. Mr Simpson was only clccted to tho County Council six weeks or two months prior to his appointment on the Harbour Board. Mr. Gillen was next 011 the poll to the two men who were elected. If the case is as stated by the member for Riccarton the other evening, and tho member for Nelson to-night, then he (Mr. | Simpson) ought not to be on the board, and I am very glad-that the hon. gentleman has called my attention to it. Mr. Atmoro asked whether tho Minister suggested that he had been, guilty of a misstatement. Mr. Fisher said that ho oould not take action in an ex-paTto statement in tho House. Mr. Russell: How can you 'get him off? Mr. Atmoro denied that ha had made iui ex-parte statement. It was a statement of fact. Mr. Fisher: I should ask him to, and I think that under tho circumstances ho would resign. I can't put him off. Russell: Of course yvra can't. Mr. Fisflier: I think he would be a wise, man and get out. '

THE MEMBER FOR GREY LYNN, A SERIES OF CHARGES. Mr. J. PAYNE (Groy Lynn), after indulging in some general criticism, said that the present High Commissioner had been bought, and that lie had sold tho members cf the present Opposition, "bv the bribo of the Higli Commissionorship if he would not make any further appointments to tho Legislative Council." The Hon. Jas. Allen: That is absolutely incorrect. Mr. Payno: It is absolutely true, and you know it. Mr. Nosworthy: Where is j-our authority? , Mr. Payne: I am talking now. Set up a public inquiry and investigate it. 1 It was also made known that if five members of the present Opposition would go over, two portfolios would be placed at their disposal. Will you deny that? M.r. Allen: Yc.s, I will deuv that. Mr. Witty: There was onW one portfolio. Mr. Payne said that ,he knew one of the men to whom tho oifer had been made. A member:'He is no good then. "His word would not bo worth taking. Mr. Payne said that the Government was not in power by_ tho mandate of tho people, but by political corruption. He referred to the statements made by Mr. G. M. Thomson regarding picture entertainments, saying that he was eorry tho honourable member placed such a low value on moving pictures. Mr. Thomson: Doubtless. Mr. Payno said that moving pictures were of -ffreat educational value, and would become increasingly more so if the Government would do as ho wished, and tako over- the wholesale supply of films. At present this was in the hands of people concerned only with tho moneymaking side of the business, and not at all with the choice of educative pictures. The debate wa.s adjourned on tho motion of Mr. A. Harris (Waitemata), and the House rose at 10.55 p.m.