IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1581, 26 October 1912, Page 6

IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

A GENERAL DISCUSSION. STATE INSURANCE METHODS. An Imprest Supply Bill (No. 5) was introduced by Governor's Message. The Hon. J. ALLEN (Minister for Finance) said that the moneys provided by tho Bill were practically the .usual amounts taken by Imprest Supply. Some items had been reduced slightly, but there were no material alterations. Messrs. H. G. Ell, A. 11. Hihdinarsh, L. M. Isitt, and J. B. Hine raised a questionlas' to the relationship!6f-';the State Guaranteed Advances Office and the State Fire Insurance Office AH of them alleged that tho Minister in cnarge wus not' doing enough to help the State Firo Office by insisting that all tho risks on which the Government had advanced money should bo 'insured in the . State Office. Tho Hon. J. ALLEN (Minister for Finance) said that'he had no power under the law to do anything of the sort. All he had power to do was to approve or disapprove of the office in which tho borrower proposed to Insure, and he could not disapprove of any reputable office. If, however, any office did not play the game fairly with the State Office ho would refuse to approve of it. Change of Methods Alleged. Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) said that a circular issued by the Advances Department in 1911 required mortgagors to insure with the State Office. A circular issued by the present Government in 1911 said that insurance must be effected "preferably with the State Fire Office." In the course of his speech Mr. Laurenson said that The Dominion, in an editorial published a few months ago, had an-. nounoed that it ought to be the duty of the new Government to see that interest never fell below six per cent. Mr. Laurenson sent across to the Hon. F. M. B. Fisher the circulars to which ho had referred.

The Hon. F. M. B. FISHER said that the ho'n. gentleman had been unfair. The State Fire Insurance Office had for years issued a circular to mortgagors under the State Advances Act telling them that they must insure in the State Office. The State Fire Insurance Department for years had "bluffed" all the mortgagors. Ho wa3 one of those who thought that borrowers from the State Department should be compelled to insure in the State Office, but were was no power in this country, and never had been, to compel borrowers from the Government to insure with the State.

Mr. Hindmarsh said that this was not correct. He asked the Minister to get an opinion from Mr. Skerrett or Mr. Salmond. , Mr. Fisher suggested that an opinion might be obtained from the Superintendent of tho Advances Department, who was present in tho House. At' present, be continued, the Minister had 'to declare any rival insurance company not reputable before he could insist upon business going to the State Office. The wording of the Act was wrong. If he had control of tho matter, ho would put every penny of tho money through the State Fire Office. Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hntt) sai.d that tho Minister had talked all round the question, without answering it. A, circular issued by the Stato Advances, 1911, contained the words: "You will require to furnish State Fir© Insurance cover." Government members: Pure bluff! Mr. Wilford said that the Advances circular issued in 1912 said that insurance be effected "preferably with the State Fire Insurance Department." .Mr. Mander: That is in accordance with the Act. Mr. "Wilford asked tho Minister to explain, tho difference between the two circulars.

Sir JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) said that when tho State Eire Insurance' Department was established every effort waa made by rival private companies to make its business unpayable. As a result the Government required that all borrowers from tho State Lending Departments should insure with tho State Office. If

this had not bcon done tho State Fire Insurance Olfice would have gone down. Ho was not suro that it would bo a wise

thing to make the Stato Fire Insurance Office tho only one in which borrowers from tho Stato Lending Departments could insure. Like other offices the State Office had to refuse many risks that were offered to it, but it should havo tho refusal of any risk where Government money had been advanced. A Reason for Haste, Tho PRIME MINISTER said that the Bill had been introduced that day because the Government had been informed that owing to Saturday being a halfholiday and Monday a public holiday, on. which Government offices would be closed, very great inconvenience would be caused unless the Bill were passed that day both by the House and the Legislative Council. It was necessary that tho Bill should bo signed by his Excellency tho Governor that night, so that it might bo available when the offices opened on tho following morning. Answering a question put by Mr. Hindinarsh the Trimo Minister said that no instructions regarding insurance had been issued since the accession q'. tho present .Government to pfflcg.

Mr. G. WITTY asked when tho insuranco circulars which hod been mentioned wero changed and whether the Minister would revert to the old form of circular.

The Hon. JAS. ALLEN said that tho last circular issued was his. The form had been changed because lie wanted tho circular to comply with tho law. Mr. Witty: Was the old circular against tho law?

Mr. Allen: I think 60. Mr. Witty pressed for a fuller reply, and Mr. Allen said: "I think thi-ro is some doubt about it'."

Mr. Witty asked whether the Minister would ascertain whether the old circular was against the law. The Minister said tint ho would obtain tho opinion of the S'..li';itor-Genoral. Mr. Witty asked whether the Minister would revive tho old ••iw.ulir if the opinion of tho Solicitor-Gensral justified him in doing so ? Mr. Allen: I would then submit the matter to Cabinet.

Mr. Witty i/.ked tho Minister Vhetl.tr he would use his infhionco in Cabinet in the direction indicate, but Mr. Allen declined to answer any more questions. t 'Then wo can draw our own conclusions, said Mr. Witty. Important Papers. Mr. H. G. ELL (Christofcarch South) complained that evasive answers had been made both by the Minister for Finance and by the Minister for Customs. At Mr. Mossey's request Mr. EU read portions of the documents which had been mentioned by Mr. Laurenson. Mr. Massey Baid that he wanted these papers laid on the table. .Thesewere very important documents, more important than would oppear at the moment. They were official documents obtained, he did not know how or why, from State Departments. Inquiry would have to bo made as to how they were obtained. These wore original documents. Mr. Laurenson said that this was me of the most thi7>gs tha* he had ever Lewd of in his life. Mr. Wilford: Tlrs is a rod herring! Mr. Laurenson said that he. could obtain sample forms I'rovi uny number of State Dcparrmenis. Now, oppaitn'.K, revenge was to be taken on the man who had dared to supply these forms. Mr. Ell said that ho was glad that he had been asked to quote these circulars, because they showed that the Minister for Finance had changed the wholo policy of his Department in regard to insurances. Mr. Allen: That is inaccurate. On the motion to adopt the report of the Committee of Ways and Means, Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch South) continued his advocacy .of the Slate Fire venture.. Cadet Officers. , On the second reading, t Mr. W. D. S. MACDONALD (Bay of ! Plenty) asked tho Minister for Defence whether any steps were being taken to permit of officers of junior cadets sitting for examination for commissions. The Hon. J. ALLEN (Minister for Defence) said that those officers of the junior cadets who had commissions now would still hold them. But now the military side of the training of junior cadets was no, longer compulsory, and he hoped that the officers would come into tho service as officers of senior cadets. As such they would of course havu commissions. Producing Public Papers, Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) said that he wanted to toll tho House exactly how he got the papers which ho had produced that afternoon. Mr. Massey: Oh, you need'nt worry! Mr. Laurenson said that he thought it a fair thing that he should. He explained that he had rung up tho DeputySuperintendent of the Advances Office that afternoon, and arranged to get the forms. Ho did not know the DeputySuperintendent. Somo time ago one of tho members of the present Ministry had said, that all public documents should be open to public inspection, and should be obtainable. Mr. Massey: Through the Minister. Mr. Laurenson: What a change! Mr. W, C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said that there was too much secrecy about public documents. .They should bo open to tho inspection of members of Pai liament. But it ill-became the member who had just spoken to cast imputations. Mr. Laurenson: No imputations. Mr. Buchanan said that some time previously, during the term of the last Administration, ho had endeavoured to get immigration figures published, and had been met by a refusal. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch North) said that time would be saved if it were accepted that the Liberal Administration had been as absolutely evil as it could be. (Hear, hear.) Replying to interjections, Mr. Isitl asked what Government had he ever f.upportcd,.and what Cabinet had he ever championed ? Ho had come in as a Radical, and his previous attitude was explained by tho fact that he had found it necessary to resist the hide-bound Conservatism of men on the other side. (Government laughter and dissent.) The very fact that the Premier should degrade his office

Air. Isitt was asked to withdraw "degrade," and did so. Ho said that he was anxious (Mr. Massey: Hear, hear)—to keep the expression of his indignation within bounds. Mr. Isitt indicated that he thought it would bo very wrong on the part of the Prime Minister to endeavour to prevent the production of public documents. The Imprest Bill was read a third time, on the voices, at 8.5 p.m. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Three days' leave of absence was granted to Mr. H. Poland (Ohinemuri) on account of urgent private- business. WIDOWS'PENSIONS. . The amendments made by the Legislative Council in tho Widows' Pensions Amendment Bill were agreed to on the motion of the Minister in charge of the BUI, tho Sou. 3?. iS. B. Tisher. THE DEFENCE BILL. The House, on the motion of the Minister for Detente, approved of the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Defence Amendment Bill. TOWN BOARDS. The Town Boards' Amendment Bill wae received from the Legislative Council, and read a first time.