THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1574, 18 October 1912, Page 6

THE COUNCIL.

■ PHASE'.OF TH E REFORM MOVE- ; MENT. I'AVJXG Till; WAY. The. Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.nu yesterday. •The greater , part of the afternoon titting. was ■ spent ill a discussion on the second reading of the legislative Council Bill..: . .. The Bill contains only two clauses, Did tile second one roads as follows: — 'Every person who, after tho passing of this Act, is duly appointed a member of :he legislative Council of A'ew Zealand shall ,hold his seat therein for three years, .to .be. reckoned from the (late of the instrument, of his appointment, and no longer/' . Under existing legislation the term of appointment is seven years, and the Prime Minister explained, when moving tho second/reading' of the' Bill in the House of 'Representatives, that it Was well-known, that 'part of the policy of the present Government was a reform of the'Legislative Council, and that tho Government was'.endeavouring' to have its legislation' placed on the Statute Book, and have the , necessary arrangements made so that they might bo able to get twenty members—half of the Council— ekctcd at the goiiei-ai election of 1911. The Hon. H. D. BELL moved tho second reading of the Bill. He said, that tlie Council had decided that there should be a change from nomination to election, but had not gone So far as to say that the Council should be elected by direct vote of the people. The Kepresentativo Chamber had gone further, and affirmed a proposal for direct election of the Council by the people. The important thing, however, for the moment was that both Chambers had decided, in favour of a change .from nomination to election. It was, therefore, lie repeated, common grouitfMfclult'both Housed'Jfiid declared for that change. - The Council would be in this position in 1914: 14 members of the Council would go out of ofiico prior to the 'session of that year, and two-would go out during th? session....Suggestions had reached him that tho Government had tome undisclosed motive, and that tho whole intention was not to 'be found within the terms of this measure. ]Ie denied that. The Government had introduced this measure in the interests of tlie numerical strength, tlie dignity, the honour, and the credit of tho Council. To see to this was tho duty of. the .Council .as well',as the, duty of the Government.; 1 . Amendment Suggested. The Hon.. H. F. Wigram suggested'the amendment of Clause i so that new appointees would hold office "until the expiry of tho term of the present Parliament." Ho also favoured the addition ofn new clause, as follows:—"This Actshall continue in office until the expiry of the term of tlio present Parliament, and then shall be deemed to be repealed."

The Hon. W. C. F. CARNCROSS said that he would vote against the second reading of the Bill. He iviis strongly in favour of the nominative system as against the olectivo system. He would (lo nothing to hasten forward tho time when tlio Chamber would be elected by the people. He denied emphatically that there had ever been any mandate from the, people to the effect that the Council should be elected by them. No one would for n moment entertain the idea that there Was auy ulterior motive in the Government's actjon in bringing down this Bill; the Council had implicit confidence in the Leader of tho Council (the Hon. H. D. Bell), and when Mr. Bell gave his word on any matter it was accepted unreservedly. The Council had not had a fair deal from the politicians and the press of the country." Politicians had spoken of the Council in terms which should not be levelled at it,. - and the press had devoted so little .space to its' debates that tho public had not a proper idea of the work of the Council. ' The Hon. R. A. LOTJGIINAN said that he would endeavour to savo the Government from' itself by voting "against the second rending of the Bill. Would Vote for the -Bill, But The Hon. ,T. T. PAXIL approached the matter, he said, with a good deal of hesitancy as to what ho should do. He believed that the Council should be Elected by the people, but he would not do anything, to .make, the .Council a mere sramaphone •of .-.tho! Government. It was a question, however, of voting on the Bill and at"'<tiie same time having regard to the- main object of the Government. Then' again, the Government might fail to carry the main measure, ami if this "Bill now under consideration were carried,, ".nevertheless, the Council would lie loft .in office on a three years' tenure. He.'.was prepared to help tho uoverumcnt along all legitimate'lines to bring about" an elective system for the Council, but:lie questioned the right of the Government.''-to "stuff" the Council for its own purposes. He intended to voto for (he Bill, but he hoped to get carried the followuig.,amendnvent, which he had had placed oil tho Order Paper, and which he wished to move in Committee;—

"This Act 'shall have force for tho period of three years only from tho coming into operation thereof, and if at the end of that period Parliament'be not in session, then until the commencement of the next session of Parliament anil for two months.thereafter, liut no longer." The Hon. 0. SAMUEL paid that the carrying of -the Bill would take away from tho Government the power of making seven years' appointments to the Cndncil; it would not merely suspend the power. He opposed tho reduction of the term of office. At about 5 o'clock the debate was ndjourned till this afternoon. LOCAL BILLS. The Council dealt with Local Bills in the evening. ' ~ The following wero passed with very Flight amendment or without any amendment:—Westland Hospital and Charitable Aid Board Vesting and Empowering Bill; Akaroa and Wainui Road District,' Akaroa County, and Wai-. were County Alteration of Boundaries Jiill; Wellington Harbour Board Em- • powering Bill: Auckland Harbour Board Empowering Bill; Waimari County Differential Bate Empowering Bill; Christrlnirch Tramways District. Amendment Bill; Roks Borough Council Veiling and Empowering Amendment. Bill; and Dilworth Trustee? Acts Amendment Bill. The Wellington arid Karon Sanitation

and Water-Supply Bill was read a second time. ' At 11.15 p.m. the Council adjournal till 2.30 p.m. to-day.