PUBLIC SERVICE BILL.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1566, 9 October 1912, Page 8

PUBLIC SERVICE BILL.

; FURTHER SPEECHES. '' ! ROOM.FOR A-..8-AIiICAL .-CHANGE.' The Hon. J. 8.. CALL AN'continued the i adjourned' debate on tho second leading : of the Public. Service Bill, Mr. Callait j Baid he intended to voto for the second' reading of the Bill, the thing that mainly induced him to : favour the'measure being ■ the report of the Public Service Commission. Ho had reud this report very catc--I'iiily, and it was, in his opinion, a very. sib!<>, exhaustive; and. thorough, piece of. v.-ork, covering tho whole organisation and work of tho Public. Service with' the exception of the/Post, .Office and the railway?. Any [ban. who read this 'report coiild come", to no'.other ■ conclusion than ; that the nVanogement and control of• the C-ivil Service -required: a radical'change. Members of, , the • Council'must-give great w6icht to the deliberate opiniona >' ■ eipressed by-.'■the 'Commission, -arid must romo to conclusion that some change was' necesaary-in '-th'o ■I'nanageme'nt of the Service. It was very important that they should 'appoint a man : well qualified lor the work'of Commissioner. .■ If they jiil not do :thi3, disastrous itesults , would' follow. -It- ■ivaa.'triijß'that'great powers were given ■■to- , the ■'Commissioner,-biit if. (li«y. wanted : a good man', and., one who. ! would wish \u make a success of the work, - they must nece*sarilv give him sreat &ow- r

ers. Mr. Callan expressed the - opinion that Parliament had plenty of power over tho Commissioner if he-proved to-be incompetent., After.-re-viewing the Bill shortly, Mr.-Callan expressed the hope that the measure would get on to the Statute Book. ;' ; -.THE HON.'-T. KELLY'S VIEWS. ■ POWERS OP THE GOVERNOR. The Hon. T. KELLY said -he could not 'understand why half of the Service was excluded from'the Bill: .The Hon. Geo.' Jones: "Neither can anybody else." , ■ . . . : . ~-' Continuing, .Mr. •Kelly, expressed the opinion that in all enses the Governor should be' guided by his Ministers, andnot bv the Commissioner, .without reference to the Ministry.- With the greatpowers involved, this Was absolutely e?sciitial. He questioned .whether ■ tho- Goyetnor could exercise, the powers prescribed in the Bill without the advico of tan Executive.' If he could not the Council must' amend the Bill by providing that where Governor was mentioned it should be Gover'nor-iu-Council. THE HON. C, M. LUKt.. SERVICE GROWN OUT OF HANI).. Tho Hon. C. M. LUKE said the report of the Civil Service Commission had influenced his -mind a good deal. He thought it-was obvious that the.Civil Service hail grown-'out of hand, but the question could be Handled bv a Commission with benefit to the. State." The-present system-.was altogether too cumbersome and it was time that there was some-reorganisation. Mr. Luke urged strongly that promotion in the Service should be by merit instead of by seniority. , This would be an incentive to the best 'men to the Service. Iu the past the heads of the difterent Departments had worked too much to glority and magnify their own Department. What was wanted wastohave the whole Service working together and ho, thought the Commissioner would-tend to make this so. He hoped that the very best mnu in the State would-be chosen.for the.position of Commissioner. ' If the malt was not in New Zealand they might ijo outside. " (Cries of "Oh.") - Mr. Luke said he took it that the term Governor in tho ■ Bill meant Governor-hi-Council. If it did not the Council should make it so*. To gc-t any o! tho best of the lads of the country into the Civil Service, said Mv. Luke,'it would be necessary for tho Government to consider the advisableness of increasing tho salary, offor.ed ".on" gentry to the Service". the Ministers were shirking their , rtsbbiisibil- , ity in giving the power" to .'a Commissioner, but in his opinion it was impossible for Minsters of tho Crown to properly control these Departments. The work could he more cconomicalK- efficiently and better carried out by ft Commissioner .than by Ministers of the Crown who had so much other work to attend to. The Hon. T. Y. DUNCAN exnressed the opinion that the Agricultural DepartI ment, Lands Department, and other DeKpartments should have the same privileges in regard to the Board of Appear as the Post and Telegraph Department: ; - MINISTER IN REPLY. SECOND READING CARRIED. 1 Tho Hon. H. I). BELL, in reply, said that most of the speeches had helped the Government to appreciate some of the minor detects of the Bill. There were others, but it would serve no useful purpose if he replied to them. He wanted to jjet this Bill through the Council, but he would rather not continue the class of debate which had been commenced by the Hon. Mr. Jones and continued bv the Hon. Mr. Beehan- -These hon. gentlemen were bitterly hostile to the Government which had introduced the- Bill and'they' had expressed their hostility. These hon. gentlcraen were entitled to tbeir opinions, but it was not''-bis desire'or intention to continue, the dfcnato along thoselines. It was equally within his right, not thinking that such a method of debate was helpful, and without presuming to be discourteous, not to reply to that: part of tho debate. It would, however, be advisable to refer to one point in that part of tho attack—one that had been echoed by members in other parts of the Chamber. It had been said that to do array with the right solicitation and patronage which members.now had. was to do injury to a number of poor and worthy people who had approached the/Government through the solicitation of members in hot li branches of the Legislature. This ■night |>e'so, but it had to be remembered that every advantage which thesa. people had obtained by solicitation had been unfair in so far n<i there were others who had not tho advantage of the same solicitation and who 'had thus not .had the siime opportunity of nppointment to, or advancement in, the Service: The object of the Government in excluding solicitation was to avoid this quasi political patronage' in ' the' case of members, and direct political patronage in the case of Ministers, which they believed,to be unjust It" was not that Unworthy •■ people had been appointed in .the past, but'the point, was that others who had not. (terrain'advantages as above, were placed at a disadvantage. This was .why it -was'.desired ito do-away with all political influence and advantages. Merit and ability was in this Bill being substituted for patronage "and.'solicitation. iThp Government had nothing to gain by discarding patronage, , nor had they attempted in. their advocacy of this measure to reflect on administrations of tho past. When they asked the -Council to allow :thpm to provide'.that the' Public Service .snoul'd'be- administered on these Unci, they should, he urged, Iμfallowed that opportunity.' Mr.'Bell'-proceeded-to explain his position as regards suggested n'mendnients. Hβ would' welcome amendments Which sought to' improve tho Bill, but if amendments were proposed for tho purpose of crippling the Bill, he expressed the hope that the Council would give the Government tho support which it had in tho past accorded 'measures entrusted to it by the Government. Hon. J. E. .Tenkinson: "You -will get fair treatment." Tho Hon. Mr. Bell said he only asked a fair and generous support to the Ministry of the day—such a support, for instance, as had been given the Bill by j the Hon. Mr. Citrncrosg in his second reading speech. Mr. Bell ridiculed tho ; suggestion that the. Government was afraid to take charge of the Civil Serrice, ! and went on to pbint out that the duty . of the Government re to manege the :' affairs of the country and not the de- ; taits of its Departments. ;. -Referring to the position of the Gover- » nor (as between the Commissioner and s the Governor), Mr. llelf snid he could not ;', speak positively on this constitutional 1 point, nor would he presume to speak r from a point, of view of a- constitutional I , lawyer discussing constitutional law. This 3 constitutional point arose in all quesf. tions of delegation. He went on t<> ex- )'.. plain that it wm only a constitutional , question, and made, no really substantial - Luifferenoa. Hβ t&QUglit there waa sonifc.

thing in the point raised by the Hon. Mr. Kellv, but it was merely of constitutional interest, which he explained at some length. There wn< nothing to prevent Parliament giving (he Commissioner power to approach flic Gnveviinr. lie would welcome any alteration in the Bill whore the Governqr-in-Coimeil was dearly meant, but where it was not intended that the Ministry should lio consulted h.v the Commissioner, ho would strenuously resist any "alteration. He did not want the recommendation of the Minister to supersede that of the Commissioner. So long as there was no depart lire from tlm principle of the Bill, in; hoped. to meet tho Council half way in. any *iig?e<Hons. He would," he added,- reply to- the Actailed criticism of.the Bill in Committee when members would have the opportunity to reply. The Government, slid Mr. Bell, attached great importance to this measure, which was one of its policy Bills. Tf, at. the end .of the session, they (the Government) were, unahlo to give effect to the Bill, it would be because .the Council had prevented them.. The Council had tho right to do as it chose with tho -Sill, but it would not be in accordance-with its past practice, nor did he think it would lie .-justifiable for. the Council to mutilate or reject tho 'measure." There were many amendments that lion, gentlemen could insist on. and on which no one could fairly comnlain at defeat-but if it came to an amendment of little importance proposed by anyone—.bitterly and avowedly opposed to-the present.Government, and he asked the support of the Council, he did not think it would be an unfair reor.est to make. ....'.. The Hon. J, Anstey: "It will.bo carried almost unanimously." . :-,-.■...- The second reading was agreed to on the voices, and the Bill was set down for its committal this afternoon.: ■'-. JUSTICES OF THE PEACE. The Hon. H. D. BELL moved tho second reading of the Justices of the Peace Amendment Bill, which provides for the assignment of counsel to any-accused person who has not the means to -procure counsel. -The.Bill was referred to tho Statutes Revision.Committee after passing its 'second reading. The Council rose at 5 p.m.