MEMBER FOR LYTTELTON.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1518, 14 August 1912, Page 8

MEMBER FOR LYTTELTON.

MR. G. W. RUSSELL CHAMPIONED. THE STATE OF PABTIES. Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lyttolton) remarked upon the admirable speech made by Jlr. Thomson, and as a member of Parliament ho expressed his gratitude for the very valuable work done by Jlr. Thomson in connection .with fisheries at Lyttolton. It had . been found that the animal and bird life imported to KenZealand had supplanted tho liativo life, and it might be found that, the fish lifewould be the same, and that there would arise a fisheries -industry on our coasts. He referred to Jfr. Thomson's complaint that tho miners in the State mines received good rates of pay as compared with clerks in the Education Department, but the trend of the times was to pay to the men doing arduous and disagreeable work higher rates of pay than those occupied at oomfortabla occupations—exactly opposite of what had been tho caso formerly. It was obvious after ail that wo could do without authors.' artists, dukes, and ■ noblemen, but wo could not do without scavengers. Speaking of the fact, that our coal > supplies were running out, and that the end of thorn was absolutely in sight, ho said it was absolutely providential that so soon ■as one door closed for. mankind another seemed-to open. And-he pointed out that thero was enough water power ruiiniii" to waste in Now Zealand to provide power tor most of our industries. The Iron Industry. In answer to what Jlr. Thomson had said about our Parapara iron deposits, ho staled that it cost .tt 10s. per ton to import pig-iron, and experts had all stated that it would cost only .£1 15s. to produco the best pig-iron f.o.b. in deep water at Pa ru para. Mr. Thomson: Then they don't want a 6ubsidy. Mr. Laurenson said that ho was not arguing in favour. oJ the subsidy. He rather thought tho State should take up the industry. If it did New Zealand might become the manufacturing centre for the Southern Hemisphere; During the last ten years the old age pensions .had been raised from 7s. to. 10s. per week, and education had been free'from the primary school right up. to the university, so far as children of good ability were concerned.. Unlike the member for Kangitikei, he had been astonished at the size of the big estates in Hawke's. Bay.' He hod travelled for miles on the railway through fertile country, and had seen only three children. Government members: Mostly Native' lauds. Jlr. Laurenson: Mostly Native Inndmonopolised by Europeans. He went on to contend that babies were more important than the production of wealth. Sheep and gold would not assist to stave off the incursion of northern races, which might be expected in the future. It was men and women. that were wanted. Beggarly Proposals.

iho leaders of all parties should unito in promoting land settlement, but not on the,lines of the beggarly proposals in tho Budget. Fifty-two per cent., of the people of New Zealand were in the towns, and men on the wharves and others were clamouring for land. The land must be.settled. ' Government members: Why didn't you do it? Jlr. Laurenson: I was a member of the' Government, that got in on the-casting vote of tho Speaker. A Government member: Twenty years behind you! . ' Mr. Laurenson: I was not in power for twenty years. I may be in power for the iiext twenty years, and if I am I won't , make anv mistake about settling the lend. Every big landowner, ho continued. ought to pray for deliverance from the enemy without and from the enemy within, who would tax him out of existence. If ever he had a voice in the . mat.'er he. intended to lax big estate*- .until „th».v were, as dead a? the mm. He had found himself in' a p.ivtr disgruntled by. prosperity, rtnd inchithns: aJI-iM'ts of r.rnwiing, ereepius , thins! which duug to a Shin cf State

long as she was in calm water, but fell away as soon as she began to move ■i!iV?l Y !llf ' r "??!"■ I:x pcricnce in ad\usih had consolidated the lieform party, and actions he would not specifv had lauded it. in power.' lie believed that hi- J rime .Minister had the interests of the small sett.or at heart, and would appeal to 111 in to shake himself clear of the big land-owners, and ally, himself with him (.Mr. Laurenson) and his like, alien he would find Unit he was lcadin-' ■i very.Strang parly. Reply' to Mr. Fisher. Mr. Laurenson next referred to (he criticism directed by Mr. Fisher at the nio!nb;-r for Avon. To hear Mr. Fisher speaking about eonsislenciv, ho said, was like hearing a weasel lecture to a society for the proveniion cf cruelty to animals. After joining the advanced wing of tho party,. Mr. Fisher had declared himscif an Independent. Then .he offered his services, as leader, to tho Labour party, and now he was in the Conservative party, and lec,lured, on consistency. He was a .lapaneso acrobat in the politic.il world, first on his head and then on his litels—yen did nr.t know where hc was. Although ho was a leaseholder, Mr. Fisher had voted with his partv to affirm the principle of selling the freehold of State leases. "You would not like to see a drunk man following you about en the platform ■ delivering an address on total ■ abstinence," said Mr. Laurenson, "and it is not pleasant to see an inconsistent man lecturing' another 4 for his inconsistency." Mr. 'Fisher had accused the Liberal-party of selling seven and a half, million acres of Crowu land. , Tho paj-ty had bought 1,125,000 acres during the same period, so that, the national estato had been reduced by only 6,500,000 acres. He (Mr.' Laurenson) had fought against the sale of these lands, and .so hail a dozen men in the part) - who held similar views. 'Eventually they got Sir Joseph Ward to cut down the sales. During his Administration the national, estato was. reduced only by 305,000 acres. About a File, Mr. Fisher had accused lfim of hoodwinking the ironmasters of Christchurch. It might bo news to Mr. Fisher that the 'president of tho Ironmasters' Association in Christchurch was his (Mr. son's) brother, whom lio would not bo likely to hoodwink or deceive. Mr. Fisher had accused him of abstracting part of a file—at first lie.had said file. Mr. Fisher: I did not charge him with abstracting a file or any part of a file, and cannot' allow tho statement to pass. Mr. Laurenson: The hon. gentleman did worse. Ho used innuendo. Givo 1110 a chance to use innuendo and I will blast the character of any man in this country. Tho inference liiid been, he continued, that lie had abstracted part of the file. What had happened was that his secretary had suggested that newspaper' reports.of the proceedings at. Christchurch should bo filed instead of the notes that had been taken being transcribed. This was done, and from this the story of the missing file had arisen. The lion, gentleman (Mr. Fisher) had manv gifts, but lie continually destroyed his gifts by finding mares' nests. Tho charge against tho Crown Solicitor at Invercargill had been pricked and burst by.the Crown Solicitor himself. Tho cliargo about the file was absolute nonsense.

The Tariff, ne had put before Cabinet the question of dealing with tho tariff. The then Prime Minister suggested that the Government should ascertain tho temper of Parliament before doing anything with tho tariff. This was agreed to, and ten days after meeting Parliament the Government was defeated. Then ho was charged with hoodwinking tho ironmasters. As to Mr. Fisher's ;. statement that, the days, of political patronage'and touting were over, every 1 appointment was in ado to Iho Public Service by rotation. Sir Joseph Ward, while Prime Minister, had passed a law that temporary officers should only hold their positions for six months, except by direct resolution of Cabinet. As long as a Government was in power, it was hound to liavo some power 1 of patronage. Mr. Fisher had asked would it. bo believed that. ,693,000 had been spent between this building and the Library. The .£93,000 covered the cost of tho new Government House. It was due to theni that they should get a more truthful statement from tho gentleman who occupied a responsible position. . . Mr. Laurenson wtat on. to deal with Mr. Fisher's majorities at successive elections. The gentlemen on the Government benches, said tho member for Lyttslton, did not represent the people of tho country.

Government members: Give us something now. Jlr. Laurenson quoted figures in support of his assertion, claiming that the action of Independents in voting with the present Government did not represent the " will of the people. Let tho' Government i- introduce proportional representation and I it would discover whore it wits. Owing " to a set of circumstances, brought about : by certain individuals whom ho would I not name, the Government had got into ] power, but to remain there they must step. ' out on radical lilies. Ho did not care • what men were on tho Treasury benches j so long as they proceeded on clean and ' upright lines.t About the Budget. [ Of, the Budget, , Mr. Laurenson sai.d: "What is good in the Financial State- ' mbnt is stolen,- and 'what is noi; stolen is no good." Jlr. Allen: Tell us what is stolen. ' Sir. Laurenson: No, what is stolen is good. Jle twitted Jlr. Allen'with adopt- \ ing a different attitude towards public expenditure than ho had adopted when 1 Ira was in Opposition, lie remembered ' the member for Bmco referring in con--1 temptuoiis terms to tho public debt cx- \ Unction' proposals which ho now commended, Tho proposed reform of tho 1 Upper House amounted only to constituting wealthy electorates which could 1 not lx> contested by any save wealthy : men. The nominativo system had its faults, but.any Government that appointed bad men to the Upper House would in the end hill itself. A Government member: So they did.. Mr. Laurenson condemned tho proposal to appoint a Public Service Commissioner, declaring that: it would arouse as great a storm of indignation as the appointment of Hailway Commissioners had done. Discontent, in'tlie Public. Service was inevitable. Thero would always bo complaints, but the country had a Public Service of which any country might be proud. He would vote against any proposal to put the Public Service under an autocratic control outside and above Parliament, The promised drastic increase in the graduated laud tax , amounted to ,£l2 4s. 9d. in the caso of an estate valued at .£40,000. The whole thing was a farce and a delusion, and more. The Prime Minister and his colleagues should hesitate before he dared to propose to sell the- renewable, leases. They wpuld not dare to make such a proposal in reference to the reserves of a local body, and it was no more justifiable to sell the reserves of the body politic. Jlr. Laurenson declared that an English visitor had told him that Wellington had more degraded slums than could be seen iu some of tho big cities at Home. (Government dissent.) Jlr. Laurenson stuck to his point, speaking of a row of "shabby wooden huts" lie had seen in Wellington. He concluded by appealing to tho Prime Minister to sink party and party differences in order to bring about -that state of things that every loyal and patriotic man wanted to see brought about. More About the File. . The Hon. F. M. B. FISHER, speaking in personal explanation, said that the } lion, gentlcijuin had accused:him of mat- ! ing a speech on Friday night ' that was , full of inaccuracies. Wlmt had happened - in reference to the file spoken about was that Jlr. Laurenson had told a deputation j in Christclmrch that their remarks had i greatly impressed him, and that a tvpe- < written report would be submitted" to ' Cabinet. When he (Mr. Fisher) asked on Friday where the notes were, Jl'r. Lauren- ' son said that tile Department had them. 1 The hon. gentleman knew now that his i memory was wron". Jlr. Fisher quoted a memo, on the file addressed to the Minister re tariff revision, .it was from • the head of the Customs Department, and { read: "Tliew papers referred back to you by the Hon. the Prime' Minister, April' 11, and referred, to Cabinet; but. were not y dealt with." "Will the lion, gentleman I tell us distinctly to-niylit:," said Jlr. i Fisher, "if the file was taken to Cabinet? Do?s ho deny the statement of the Secretary for Customs? If the' hen: gentle-' man. wants the file to refresh his memory he tan hare it." ' 1 The. Hon. T. Mackenzie: You don't. V know muck about .what happens at

Cabinet. Papers arp sometimes dealt with without any record Ijeinp placed on them. Mr. Fisher: That is your method of doing bu-iness. At this stngo Iho Speaker colled for order. Mr. Fisher: Yes, sir, if you will only keep the linn, member for Kgmont iii order. The member for Kgiwmt was informed that he nuiit not interrupt. Mr. Fisher .stated Hunt in mentioning the expenditure of .£OH,OOO ho had given details, including- the cost of tho new Goveminent House, Mr. Glowr: Why .didn't you spend it I 3ii Auckland y (Laughter.) Mr. Fisher continued that as to the legal gentlemen ot Invcreargill who had tile (ixclusive, business, lie had sent to the head of the Department concerned and allied him to sunply (lie Cabinet minute. 1 tie reply made was that the original papers, wero mining, and had not tjecri returned to tho Department. Mr. Laurenson also made a personal explanation, which was for the most part covered by his speech. GOVERNMENT PATRONAGE. A SELF-DENYING ORDINANCE. ' r'wV ■P" (member for Clutha) congratulated tlio hon. member tor Lyttelton upon tlio excellence of (.lie speech that ho iu-ul made, remarking that lie had never heard him mako a l etter speech. He trusted that the tono ot tins and other speeches marked the inauguration of a new era in the House. Ho defended, tlio Hon. Mr. Fisher from the reproach that in joining tlio Reform I'l'i'iy had -jettisoned his radical principles. Mr. Fisher had joined the partv, und he reninmed in the party because ho knew from intimacy, with 'the members of it how. Radical the partv was. Ibe Budget was progressive, but sane and practical; t hero were .110 wild-cat proposand not yet any that wero rcactionjhero wero no generous promises to tickle the ears of the people only to disappoint them afterwards. What tho Budget set out the Government would carry out. Dishonest administration would de™°J', .tho best principles in tlio world, ilio independence of tho people had been undermined by Gb.venunent patronage over a.long period of years, and one of the things that had delighted him about tho return of the Reform party was tho proof it gave that the spirit of independence was not dead. People had been, taught to believe that if thov wanted anything they must go to tho Government for it, and they had come to bohovo too that unless they supported tha Government at tho elections they might oxnect to be treated unfairly. Mr. uV. M. Myers: Havo you any proof of that ? Mr. Malcolm: I have cases in my own electorate. I Mr. .Myers: Name one; name ono.

Grants and Appointments. Mr. Malcolm: I have seen it iri my own constituents by. the hundred. The Budget showed, however, that tho Government had in effect passed a eclf-do-n.ying ordinance. The thtes groat brandies of Government patronage were roads and bridges grants, appointments to tho public service, and. appointments to tho Legislative Council. Tho Government was deliberately surrendering its right to make anpointmcnis to tho Civil Servico by setting up a Public Service Board. In regard to roads and bridges, tho Government'proposed again, to surrender patronage Ijy making tho roads, and bridges grants, automatic, and independent of the will.of (lie Ministry. Last of all, the Government were ready to give up their right to .appoint members to the Legislative Council. Thesfr. tiirea proposals wero the finest that had ever, )>eeii submitted by any Executive in.'litis: country. lie excused the proposed loan of .f1,750,000 on tho ground' that owing to ths state of the Public Works Account, witli a liability of ii14(i5,000, borrowing was necc.=.sary, and only tho least possible sum was going to bo borrowej., Ho agreed with tho proposal that our loans should be consoli.dated, arid. ho. urged, further, that our consols should bo practically perpetual, as British consols were, instead of being reueemable.iifte.M years, . He advocated n scheme for tho establishment of a deposit bank in London. Ho attacked the system of constructing railwavs bv cooperative labour.- He suggested that full opportunity .should bo given bv the Government'for the consideration by Parliament of such Imperial questions"as naval defence. He joined with Mi'. Lauronson 111 his hope that some means might be found to raise every member of the community above degradation and want. Mr. H. G. I3LL (Christchureh South) moved the adjournment of the debate, and on .the suggestion of tho Prime Minister it was agreed that the debate should be resumed at 7.30 p.m. to-day. Tho nouso rose at 10.45 p.m.