ANTI-MILITARISTS.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1412, 12 April 1912, Page 6

ANTI-MILITARISTS.

A DEPUTATION. .MINISTER STANDS FIRM. PEACE AND LABOUR WAR. Haying spent an hour with supporters of military 'training on Wednesday, the Minister for Defence (the Hon A. M. Myers) devoted nearly two hours yesterday to a large deputation 'of objectors ■representing various Labour, Socialist, and anti-militarist organisations. Mr. J. Robertson, M.P., introducing the deputation, said it was his own candid opinion that the body of public feeling against tho compulsory system was much larger than generally supposed. In light- , ing the Otaki election, ho made the repeal of the compulsory clauses a plank of his platform, and was surprised to find how :argo an amount of support he obtained on those lines.' The press, ho thought, had conspired to uphold tho opposite view. The objections did not come from cranks and faddists, hut from serious, intelligent people,.who were prepared to make sacrifices for what they thought right. Is the Act Administered? Mr'. Hunter, of Christchurch (New Zca- I land Drivers'' Federation and Christchurch branch of the New Zealand Labour Party), said that repeal of the compulsory clauses ,of the Act was one. ot ' his election planks at Christchurch Last, when he came within four votes of the sitting member, a result which he attributed largely to this question. ' Mr. P: 11. Hickev (New Zealand ledera- i tion of Labour) said that the opposition to the measure was far greater than anybody would gather from tho papers. I he defence system was far front a success;,' . and tho authorities did not dare to enforce it because they saw it would cause people to break out in open rebellion. There were industrial centres where not , a single youth was being trained. If they were "aolud there would be ah immediate cessation of work in those places. He | was speaking of certain mining districts, i-hoy had formed Passive Resisters' Unions on purpose to resist the Act. They had been called cowards and shirkers, hut lit thought thev showed moro courage than they would by merely acquiescing in the t law. ..... I An Individualist. , Mr. P. J. O'Regan also spoke for the Federation of Labour, to which he mentioned that he was solicitor. He also claimed to bo.an individualist, a tieo-tra-der, and'one who would resist all encroachments upon individual liberty, lie was implacably opposed to compulsory training. He would deny the rights or even a three-fifths majority to take away tho rights of a minority. He respected authority, but would. deny the right oi any Government to interfere with the private rights of individual. The newspapers wore the catspaws ot the National Service League, just as they had been the catspaws of the Tariff Reform League. It was true that the principle ot compulsory service had been always in the law of England, but no Government dared to enforce it-just as tho compulsory vaccination law was not, and could not, be enforced. No matter how many might bo-in favour of this thing, he would always exercise his constitutional rights to "fir linsor (Christchurch), representing tho Canterbury Labour Representation Committee and J:he Peace Comic 1, said that 14,000 names of people opposed to the Act had been registered in Christchurch. Practically the whole of the electors, ot Hornbv and Islington had . signed nnFolicited a declaration against the .Act. The compulsory clauses .were entirely, opposed to the democratic and humanitarian spirit of. the age and of A'e«" Zealand. The Labour party of the Old Country was ' unanimously against anything like conscription. He regretted that the workers of New Zealand did not realise the nature of the Act before.it was passed. . ' ....,..„ The Quakers. ''•'Mif-3'" Brown (Wellington)' said the Society ot friends, which she represented, had always been a law-abiding body, except where, after.deep consideration, they found that tho law of the land conflicted : ivith a higher law. They did not consider .that the conscience clause of the Defence Act was satisfactory, because the ambulance duties prescribed in lieu of military training 'were under military control. The Society of Friends in England was prepared to help thoso out hero who were ■objecting to the Act. '"'.The.Rev. Mr. Mao.ky, organiser of the ■National Peace Council of New Zealand, said the newspaper reports gave no true idea of the real facts. It was iintruo to : say that the Peace Council was strong only in Christchurch. The fact that there .had I>eciv more prosecutions in Christchurch than elsewhere did not indicate ;tbat objectors were more numerous there, but only that the authorities had been nioro active. Hundreds of youths on tho West Coast had handed together on purpose to resist the law, and the authorities dared not prosecute them. In Christchurch tho-authorities had set up a system of persecution, some youths having been prosecuted twice, and others not at all. -Why not prosecute all the boys alike, in-Dunedin, Wellington, and Auckland, as well as Christchurch? The Peace Council had*, not advised boys to break the law, though they wer-o in favour of passive resistance in their case. When Sir .Tosenh Ward said such an Act would never be tolerated in this country, he was a true prophet. (Hear, hear.) 'The principles of the .Act were the principles of conscription, and were undemocratic and identical •with-those of the German system. Nothing but the repeal of the compulsory clauses would satisfy them. The Australian. 1 Act was even worse than the NewZealand one. To imprison n- boy for obeying his father was an iniquity/and utte'rly .-tin-English. Professor Mills. Professor W. TV Mills said ho had met only; one Labour man who defended the compulsory principle, nnd that one objected to all the details. The taking of the thumb-prints of the boys was wholly uncalled-for. The defence scheme would not.really protect New Zealand against invasion, and the only possible use of the Territorials would be- in connection with industrial disputes. The workers were convinced that this was a menace to them, and their opposition to the scheme would increase. As showing that the compulsory system was unnecessary, Mr. Mills said he'.had seen instructions issued by tho Defence Department, to military officers to re-examine some of the recruits they had already passed, and mark them as physically unfit in order that there should not he too many recruits. The compulsory system was not popular; it was unpopular, and if the Minister wanted to prove it he should declare that at th* earliest possible moment all political rights forfeited under the Act would be restored, and all records of thumb-prints and entries in the criminal lists- under the Act would he destroyed. That would be the mor-st populai thing the Government could do, nnd it would prove that, the present deputation did not represent . the wishes of a minority of the people. (Applause.) Nothing to Fight For. Mr. F. Freeman, Wellington Socialist party, insisted that il would have bten as reasonable to imprison children for refusing to be vaccinated as to imprison youths under this Act. He also urged tiiat. tho workers in this country had really nothing to tight- lor. They did not want to have then boys trained to protect other people's property. Ho also referred to the movement for the workers of every country to lny down their tools if war was declared. The little newspaper, the "Anti-Militarist," had been boycotted by the wholesale liewsvendors of New Zealand. Mr. Jordan (Wangnnui Labour party) urged that in tilings that directly alfected the individual the workers had no protection given them by the State. Mr. M'Carthy (Duncdin Labour party) paid that thousands of old rifle shots, for whom lie spoke, resented being deprived of the opportunity of helping tho learnors in the riflo clubs, and of facilities for rifle shooting under the Defence Act. "Administer It!" Mr. J. M'Cullough (member of the Arbitration Court), who was introduced by Mr. O'Regan as "the father of one of the gaol-birds," said that ho had tried to avoid speaking, but it was difficult to keep cool and collected in these circumstances. He censured the Government for ruining the volunteer system. The Government deliberately fooled the people at the last election, causing them to believe that there would bo no more, imprison-

ments under the, ■ Act. "You have now said," continued Mr. M'Cullongli, "that you will see that tho law is administered. (Applause.) I urge, you to do f-o. I urge you to do your duty aiul administer tho law, and you will seo tho consequences." (Applause.) Mr. M'Fnrland, secretary of the » ellington Waterside Workers, said the workers he represented would not allo.v themselves to bo used to protect other people's money in time of trouble. They were organising to obtain, control of industry, and they could sec that the defence forces were to be used against them. Thereforo they objected to tho whole system. THE MINISTER'S REPLY. NOT AFRAID OF CONSEQUENCES. The Minister said he was very pleased to have met the deputation, and heard their side of the question. He had listened attentively and carefully to all their remarks. Ho had the greatest respect for people who held conscientious objections, and he, for oiie, would always be inclined to show tolerance to those who had different opinions upon any matter. Tho arguments used, however, had not in any way altered the opinions which he held. The deputation had been frank with him, and he would be equally frank with them. The last speaker had said tho workers had nothing to defend, but he (the Minister) held that there was no class in tho community that was more interested in the defence of the country than the workers. Ho took strong exception to the statement that tho workers had nothing to defend. They were as a class better off in New Zealand than in anv other country in the world. Ho had yet to learn that the working man cared less for his wife and family than any other class. It was the duty of-each man to serve and protect the State, and thereby to guard his own hearth and home and dear ones, and that was tho special interest of the working classes in New Zealand. Mr. M'Cullough had said that the result of enforcing the Defence Act so far as the. Administration was concerned would be that its term of office would be a very short one. Mr. M'Cullough explained that he did not refer to the length of the Government's term of office, but to the fact that it would have a particularly unpleasant time. Mr. Myers said that lie, as Minister, had to see the law administered, in spite of any unpleasant consequences whatever. (Hear, hear.) "lon have nailed ym\r colours to the mast," he added, "and I must do likewise. So long as lam Defence Minister, it will be clearly my duty to administer the law." In Favour of Peace. He took exception to the statements that prosecutions had only been authorised in certain districts, if that was so, and if it were brought under his notice, it would be his duty to see that respect was shown for the law in all places. He would he no party to what had been alleged. The Legislature had not intended that there should be imprisonment, and there would be an alteration of the law in this respect, and they would have to accept the disabilities that their Legislature would impose. He could not believe that anybody in that room would take up any ■ other position than their ancestors would in the matter of defending their country. He believed in peace as much as anybody, and had stood on the platform in Auckland with the Peace Society to celebrate tho treaty of arbitration between Great Britain and the United States'. He held that it was desirable to have arbitration as far as possible, but the deputation knew as well as he did that it was impossible to refer all matters to arbitration.. In regard to tho idea .that workers in different counr tries would combine to prevent war,, they must, remember that they had other parts of the world besides Europe.to consider. There were China and Japan near at hand. An interrupter: We. are there also. . Mr. Mvcrs repeated that, it was one's duty to defend one's country. What objection could there be to the Act? Mr. Dowdall: Tyranny! Mr. Myers: I fail to see it. The Camps. Nothing untoward had occurred to any of the youths v;ho had gone into camp, and thev ouh" regretted that the. camp had not" lasted longer. From all he had seen he could say that, from the physical and moral point of view, the boys wore going to be improved. (No! So'.) Ho would like anyone present to accompany him or anv officer to any of the camps and investigate the conditions at first hand. He was sure they would come away of quite a different mind from what they were in at present. The volunteer svstem had been a failure. It cost 4:200,COO a year and produced 15,000 inefficient men. \Ve were now aiming at efficiency. The State had rights and the individual had a duty to the State. It had been said that the military system- was onChristian, but the bishops did not take exception to it. (Ironical laughter.) It was not desired to create a military spirit, but thev were going to physically improve the youth of the country and to show them their responsibilities to the country, and he believed the result would be altogether good. Mr. Dowdall: Would not gymnasia be better for physical efficiency? Mr Myers: "If a foreign foe came here, we could hardly invite them to a contest in a gymnasium. They would probably prefer quite other methods." All those who had gone through the training were delimited with it. and among representative men who had seen the camps, there was a "eneral consensus of opinion that the bovs. would benefit in every possible way. 'He believed it was the duty of every man to serve the State. Mr. Dowdall: But Professor Mills has shown that you can't take them all. Mr. Myers: That remains to be seen. If An Enemy Came. He believed that if an enemy came there would not be one man who would not be prepared to shoulder a rifle, but those who hud given their lives to study this question said .it was absolutely, essential that every man should be trained. We must defend the glorious heritage handed down to us. (Ironical laughter from the Socialist section.) It an enemy landed, he did not believe there would bo a single shirker., ■ An interrupter: What about the enemies who nre already here? Mr. Myers: Who are they? . The 'interrupter: The enemies of the working class. . , . The Minister: You must not mix things up. Your very lives depend upon the existence of the Empire. , Air. Cornish (Brooklyn) said his son was the first of those gaoled, and was m prison three weeks. Others had only had three or four days. this fair? The Minister said he supposed that youth was not one of the recent ones whose sentences had been partially rcmMr! Dowdall: Our fathers fought for fi'p»doni. Should not we do the same? The Minister: Y'es, and if you were conquered bv a foreign nation you would not be so free as you are at the present time. You say you have nothing to fight tor. W" snv you have everything to fk'lit for. I Mr.'Thompson (Nelson) said that his con. who had now left the country, had b*on nrosecuted under the Defence Act. and the polic» had stolen the bovs bicycle and sold it to pay the fine Yet the boy hnd no lew! status to hold property Did the Minister annrove of that? The Minister: Whatever the law is. it has to be carried out. That is my reply to that. You must send reoresentntives to the LesMnturc who will reneal the Act. I shall not vote for Tcpcal, but <-'ial! vote for the excision of the clauses tint- entail imprisonment. "Whatever action you determine, to tnke." said the Minister :n conclusion, "iiist. remember that the object of the rWonco svstem is to get a trained body nf men will, 'f occasion arises, which God forbid, will be ready to fight for their rountrv. their hea lf hs, their homes, nnd their dear enw. We consider that the best w.iy to I '-''inr Hint about is by training every hov. You hobl a contrary oninion. end you have urged it with a very iroat deal nf eloquence and earnestness. T ask you to give yedit for sincerity to those who do not ngire with yon, nnd then you nre at liberty to take such action ns you think fit." The Forces and Industrial Disputes. In reply to questions, the Minister said that under the Defence Act no Territorial i could be sent out o? the country. lie i would not be in favour of amending the ■ law so as to provide that the forces could ■ not be used in industrial disputes. Law ■ and order must be maintained. (Oh! ; Oil! "Class distinctions.'") This was as i much in the interest of the workers as of • any other clasj,

Mr. Hickoy: General Godley said Hint in no ease would the military lie used in industrial disputes.' You evidently don't agree with him ? Mr. Myers: I faid to maintain law and order. ilr. Hickoy: Everyone connected with industrial disputes " knows what that menus. The Minister said that even the Labour Clovornmouts in Australia found that they had to maintain law and order. If members of the deputation became Minister.-, some day they would find they had to do the same. i T!u» Minister was also asked whether he was in favour of the military lieiug asked in do the work of men on strike. lie replied that if such a matter came before him he would have to decide it on its merits. Mr. M'Cullough said there were two boys in Lyttelton Gaol Mho had been there for a fortnight. 'Would the Minister have their sentences commuted? Their names were Gates and Porter. The Minister said ho would look into the matter at once. DEFENCE ACT. THE ATTITUDE OP LABOUR. The Joint Committee set up by the Labour Party Conference and the Trades Councils' Conference, to report to tho Unity Conference on the Defence Act, yesterday mado a report recommending the conference to pass tho following resolutions:— "That this conference of the United Labour Party enters an emphatic protest against: the following features of the Defence Act:— " '(1) The fining and imprisonment, of youths for non-fulfilment of military duties.' " '(2) Disem'ranchiscment of youths on account of their refusal .to register for compulsory military training.' "'(3)-Tho excluding of youths from Government or public employment on account of their refusal to register for compulsory military training.' "This conference further affirms that any civil rights taken away from any pel-son as penalties under the provisions of the Defence Act shall be restored to such persons. "That any penalties for breach of the Defence law shall be enforced only upon adult persons, such as parents or guardians, and not upon youths who, not being electors, have not the full rights of citizenship." The repjrt, in its entirety, was received and unanimously adopted by the Unity Conference.