THE PREMIER'S REPLY.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1369, 21 February 1912, Page 6

THE PREMIER'S REPLY.

HIS INTENTIONS.

PREPARED TO GO INTO THE RANK AND FILE. . ' ". The PRIME MINISTER, (Sir Joseph Ward) congratulated tho mover arid seconder of the Address on their speeches. The other day, when the Leader of the' Opposition and some of his followers were' meandering down tho country in his peripatetic way trying to creato tho impression, that' there' wai great, popularity behind him, ho stated at TaUuiaruuui,- that he '.was in favour of reducing the rate of interest on loans to local bodies to 3, per cent. Yot ho must know that under the Act the State Guaranteed, Advances Board —not tho Government—had to raise tho rate fr6m 3 per cent t0.35 per cent. Tho day after it was known that there was a possibility of the Leader of the Opposition coming into power, the financial institutions all over the country shut .down on. increases of overdrafts.. and-' refused to make fresh, advances. (Ob, oh!). The Leader, of .tho'. Opposition 'proposed > to bribe' the' local bodies at the expense "of the ordinary. taxpayer by .the difference between 3,per c?ht and 3:j'rier cent' r whicli was the rate of interest on the advances.

. Mr. Massey: .You're quite wrong.-. Sir Joseph . Ward 6aid .Mr./Massey.:had complained that tho' railway rates .wert not higji enough fo pay' interest. > ■ * Mr. Massey: I never did. Sir Joseph Ward: You have done so for years and years. You have pointed out thot we were not getting, back from tho users of the railways enough to priy interest on the loans. Yet the J/sidcr of the Opposition said at Taumaruhui that the interest on the local bodies' loans should lie reduced from 3J to 3 per cent. Members of the Oppostilioh canio to the House asking; for money. They came again arid again, like vultures round a carrion. (Laughter.) Mr. Herries: Who's tho carrion? (More laughter.) Sir Joseph Ward: Y*on arc. They cams: wanting' riioney immediately and these are the hon. gentlemen who are going to'do po much reforming of the financial position.

The State of Parties. As to the 6t.it.o- of parties, •h« would call the attention. of tho House to what happened in England otter tho list two general election!?. The Government had not a majority without tho Irish members, and tliov did not know how' these would vote. Did the Liberal Government in Britain do whnt the lion, gentleman and his peripatetic friends, leaping and bounding over, the country,, had said this Government'.should do? Mr. Massev.:'A majority of the members are, pledged' to support. me. (Cries ol' "No, no.") The. Prime 'Minister said that the votes polled for the members of tho Opposition totalled .178,478, while the men who supported tho Liberal party, exclusive of Labour and Independent Labour candidates, received 2115,918. votes. Mr. Fraser: Thafs nonsense.

It was nevertheless true: yet tho frienda of the large laud-owners had boon,howling at him ever since tho general elections to relinquish tho trust which, had boon placed in. him. During the last two or three' weeks tho Leader of the Opposition had been moving heaven and earth to. persuade members of the Government party to tufn. ..-.'• Mr. Massey: That statement is incorrect—it is.tho other way. .;.',- Sir Jossph Ward tai'd. the Opposition had talked of a political extinction 'of himself, and by a form of assassination they might put him out of tho_ Ministry, but Mr. Massey and those associated with him would never be hWo to put him down. It bad been suggested that he intended to tako the High Commissionership, but he was not to bo bought ia that way. He would do his duty, until the decision of tho. House, notwithstanding tho innuoudoos and tho slanders that had been spread through tho country about himi for he know, aud tho country knew, that lie had done .good. for the people of New Zealand. (Applause.)

The Gift of the Dreadnought. Sir Joseph Ward sa.id that he. thought Mr.' Massey would have been ashamed to repeat in the House their statemonts about- the Dreadnought. When not a penny had been .spent upon it except the cost if the cables, the Opposition, had bean given an. opportunity to vote against the proposal, but when Mr. M'Laren had called for a division ho could not get.a membor to .tell -with him. Then tho Opposition had gone through tho country scoring at the expense of (ho protection of tlio British Navy, -They wero as dumb as mutes whea the defence scheme was before the House. (Opposition cries • of" No! No!"). On that occasion they showed a lack of courage that did not suggest much capability to carry on important duties if by any mischance they should ever reach the Treasury benches. In his charges of recklessness in borrowing, Mr. Massey had displayed the evasiveness and the want of candour that was characteristic tf him throughout tho election campaign. How much did the- Opposition propose to' borrow? They had never opposed a. loan. (Mr. Nosworlhy: That is not correct.) His statement applied to tho party' with one or two exceptions. Personal Charges Denied. A number of charges he said had boon mnde against him personally. There'was not a man in (he country who could deny Unit his religion had licen used to disc'redil him. (Oppositionists nnnnimotrsly: 1 deny it.) .Ho had been charged with stuffing the Public Service' viith men of his-own religion. Mr. Massey: Not bv'iue. Tho Lender of the Opposition had been informed po, for he had letters in his possession which proved.it. Mr. Massey: Produce the,letters. . Sir Joseph* Ward then . read , loiter* from Department officers in reply to his ■ inquiries upon (he . subject. Mr. D. RoWlson, Secretary .of the Postal-De-partment,, stated that, of the total ;sbfl' of4Sofl in the Department, 7« were Roman Catholics, and only about the same proportion in the-Railway .Department. A circular issued by Archbishop Redwood, during- the elections, had been immediately attributed to him, though he had never discussed politics with. Archbishop Redwood. reference was ■ made

by; the' Primo Minister to' "the absence_ of the member for Hutt. Ho read letters from Mr. Wilford authorising him to pair luni in favour of the Government for nny division upon a no-confidence motion. His medical adviser had ordered- Mr. Wilford to leave the country, yet, in spite, of those circumstances, Mr. Massey had refused a courtesy that was nsual in all parts of the world.

Dissolution. Mr. Massey knew that he could not carry on,, and that .he could not.get a dissolution. Mr. Massey:.You are not the Governor. He (Sir Joseph Ward) .. had consulted the highest legal opinion, and his advice was that tho Leader of tho Opposition could not get a dissolution. The Opposition professed an anxiety to get at tho pigeon-holes, and ho hoped thut : wlien they did so, they would disclose everything they found..- He would call their attention to something that they would not care to disclose. All sorts of stories hail been circulated about his personal wealth. • .•■ -,- ■ . Mr. MassevVNot bv me. He (Sir Joseph Ward) was. reported to hi. a large shareholder in several com|>anies and owner of ft largo share in the Union' -Buildings in Auckland. Mr. Payne: Yes, I heard that. He had"nover owned a shilling's worth ot property in Auckland. Auonynious letters .had-been sent from Xew Zealand to Australia and back to him,, accusing him of enriching himself by the flotation of loans; he had now sufficient-informa-tion to proceed, against the. writer of one of those letters, He wad-a letter from the High Commissioner. . conveying a statement by ' tho loan agents that no payments in connection -with the flotation of loans' had been made to any person in Xew Zealand. He added that he had.never been.a shareholder in any sompauy other than his own business and one or two uewspa,:""-*. and his only property was that' belong.ig (n.hisbusiness. A suggestion .had been made that bir John r'indlav\had forced himself to obtain an invitation to attend the Imperial Conference, and to that he gave an emphatic denial. He (Hie Prime Minister) was asked bv the Home authorities whether he would be able to arrange fori another member of the Cabinet, preferably a legal member, to attend tho Conlerence. The letter was-dated October 8, 1010. Every country represented at the Conference, except Xew Zealand and Xewfoundland, had three representatives. I'horo was legal work to do at the Conference upon which legal. men, among them Sir John Find lay,, were employed all-the time;

Trusts and Combines. The Leader of the Opposition, the Prime Minister went on, had not said one word in his speech against trusts and combines.'- '-.- :.:■

Mrv Massey: Yes,-1 did. I said that tho Government should,bo used on every occasion to smash up monopolies. The Prime Minister continued that he was going to invito the hon. gentleman ro assist in smashing up a monopoly by Bupporting a-proposal (contained in tho Governor's Speech) in pursuance of which the country would receive an cstato Tallied at ..£13,800,000. Mr.. Massey: Why didn't you bring down the proposal last year? The Prime' Minister: I did bring it down..

Mr. Massey: Then why did yon not put it throne'-.? The rnmo Minister, ed that the Leader of the Opposition had not said one word about the acquisition of the freehold in this country. He talked about security of tenure,'but -what did he mean by tha.t? In this House tho balance of parties was such that no one could get a TemiTe Bill through. Everybody knew'that'this'wasso. ' But under the proposal he had mentioned,- -.£13,600,000 of land would. ■■' be settled upon by men 1 and and their families, and be taken from the large land-owners throughout the' coiihtfy, who had shown their bitter hostility to this (the Government) party, and to the workers of this country. Some of the land-owners, born ■with silver spoons in their mouths, had never earned a penny for themselves, but this 5E13.800.000 worth' of. land could be taken ivithout doing injury to any landowner. '- : '-' ''-.'( ./;if.-,« ;;.)'.;. ,n..v; ■

Mr. Massey: Bo yoii include"Mbkau? The' Prime Jlinister' said that the Leader of the Opposition had advocated' selling the,freehold of■ Native'lands. He had even advocated' the' sale of the nine million acres of endowment lands. "The £13,800,000 worth of land-could be taken without doing the slightest, injustice to any land-owner, but a drastic provision would be that preventing adjacent owners lrom.going to a compensation court and giving evidence which would abnormally increase the value of the land. The valu'o would bo fixed by the Land Purchase Board, and not by the Government. The land would ho-cut up into, deferred payment sections. "'•'•..-.

Motor-cars. : '■ i ,' \ ' Turninff jext' to •the-question'of "petrol the Prime Minister asked what working ■man could stand' for Parliament' to-day with any hope"of.success? Opposition candidates went along/ to a poor inan or,.woman, with a family,' and said: Come along■and- have a ride on my hat t as h ™ the >- hwl-bcei «£„? ,Y eetl °»\, In Australia they had fo? PP dSfJnS u *%°t>otor-car S at elections wL dls . tan . c ? 3 °f ess than two miles. H.Ui Uld be done here? He had .M great objection to the repeal of the Second Ballot Act. The Leader of the Opposition had talked about land otlier h side , re^ll^ VerllU,e ' lt ™" S *e oUibeJ* 8 (oanuirn ) Pfmptly: The law

S>lr Joseph Ward: You' don't snn« anything about the law of libel Mr. Lee: And you don't know any-' thing about me, cither. You aik«l -. question, and I answered you

The: Present Position. Sir Joseph Ward went on.to define the present position'of parties from his point •i V T; I , So '",e.of his opponents he' Mi* had thought that-their'chief calling was to blackguard him. One news}^P er , especially had done that.. They bought to do some good by putting their nose insmV a political lmi V s pri ,, ltp house., They could only do "that with the support of their directors, and he t , rf S e n^ , "l C(l M that l , he - T "i o,lld not <l«ee"Ml to such depths' unless thev had revived the support of their directors. Tn regard v°- T' th F s ? i( ! ahmt luting ri3 of him they hoped by doing" so that the party would be disintegrated, but when he was free of. parly he would have a glorious and a happy time. Thev sa, : I Wanted to cling tn office, but lie wa„ if u , '< a M number of peoplo who-had supported the Liberal Govern-ment.-.-.it-first he conteni plated resigning straight rnvay, but he found that that would be. an unfair thing to no nnd that the right- thing was to call Parliament.tqgether. He did not attempt to stretch it out, as. ho might have done until after the end of the financial year' No one would, he added, accept the derision of the. House more cheerfully than he at tho present juncture, and notwithstanding all the Opposition said! he belie Ted they were going to win, and' ho believed it would ■be a bad thing if they did not win. ' He said the cry in the North Island was against him. It was to,-piit Ward -down, but, at the same,time, it was not a- cry to put Massey in. Mi. Herries: That is what we arc here

for. ... ' Sir Joseph Word: No doubt. Yon have been there all along for that purpose, and you are still there. ,lle had shown that tho majority of Liberal supporters in-the country was greater than the number who. supported the Conservatives, but he was not going to cling, to office upon a narrow majority for anybody in this country. The Leader of the Opposition might try that and find the consequences if he liked. The natural allies in this country i»ere the Liberal and Labour sections. One of the most fatal mistakes would be to illow their natural opponents being put in possession of thin country at the moment.

Will Go Out of Office. Sir Joseph Ward continued that he did not intend to go on in the position he now held, even if his side won m the division, as he honestly believed thoy would. In other words he was not going In be put in a position of allowing them to use him to injure the Liberal and Labour parties in this country. An at-

tempt had been made to do that by raising cries against him personally, by misrepresentations and deliberate and wilful' falsehoods. These statements hud been circulated to the extfnt that any babbler who was talking could sav all we want is to put Ward out. What lie had to say to the Liberals was that he was prepared to go into the rank and lile of the Liberal and Labour party ia Xew Zealand. (Applause from Government supporters.) He was prepared to stand by them and help them to the best of his ability. As a freeman without, responsibility he would be at a much greater advantage, lie had how to curb his tongue. (Laughter.) He had to restrain himself. (More laughter.) lie would be able to do what the Leader of the Opposition and his peripatetic band had done. He had OS invitations to different parts of the country, lie did not care for their attacks, and he had been responsible for saving this country from a crisis three times. He referred to the Opposition as • a peripatetic band, of kangaroos that had been jumping over this country. (Opposition laughter.) In regard to the criticism,of the Opposition press or the Government press.regarding his policy, he said that whoever carried it out he would have the satisfaction of having given tin indication of a policy that would drag the Leader of the Opposition and the men who supported him at the chariot wheels of the Liberal and Labour party. In that policy there was the groundwork for the man who wanted to stand by the people of this country— the farmers and workers. Sir Joseph Ward went on to refer to the foul menu* and tho. degradation of a journal owned and controlled by landed proprietor* which was prepared to do anything ot the meanest character to damage him. Under its decision of blackguarding public men if thonght to deter them from carrying on their mission. He would conclude by parodying the words of a great Irishman that the majority of tho people in Xew Zealand might be his temporary enemies, but he would never be theirs, and after he had won he would bo prepared to assist the party and go along as a private member, having a happy time. with tho Leader 'of the Opposition and the member for Tauranga and others in Bellamy's, on the best of terms, and help the Liberal and Labour party to sweep' the large landed gourmandiscrs out of existence. (Loud applause from tho Government benches.)

A PROTEST BY MR. MASSEY. THE SECTARIAN QUESTION. Mr. MASSEY rose to make a personal explanation. He was sorry that the Prime .Minister had forgotten the position that lie occupied and had used language that no man in this House should have used. The Hon. It. M'KENZIE submitted that this amounted to a very grave reflection on the Chair, but the Speaker ruled that no such reflection had been made.

Mr. Massey said that the Prime. Minister had accused him of expressing the opinion that local bodies should he allowed to have money at 3 per cent, the general taxpayers being left to make good the loss. This was not what he (Mr. Massey) had said at all. He had said that local bodes should get money at 3 per cent and that the deficiency "should he mado up from Parliamentary grants. Ho believed that this would bo more satisfactory to settlers and to local bodies and would enable them to get better value for their money!

Cries of "Quibble." Mr. Masse? said that he was sorry that the intelligence of those who had"interjected did not allow Ihem to understand the position. Tho Primo Minister, Mr. Massoy continued, had said that nobody had* voted against the Dreadnought. This was quite true. But at the time the' Prime Minister had come to him, or he had gone to the Prime Minister—he was not sure which—ami the Prime Minister then showed him a resolution that the House "approve" the gift of the Dreadnought.Mr. Massey continued that he had refused to ".. vote for the motion in this form. At his suggestion the word "confirm" was substituted for "approve" Mr. Massey stated that the portion of tho Prime Minister's speech to which h<i objected most was his reference, to sectarianism. He did not wish to be placed in a false, position, and took this opportunity of-stating that he had never made the slighte-ft: !.-:diffirrohce ,l>otwcen,\ members of any sect. He had good supporters who were Roman Catholics, and tw:o of his candidates at the late elections were Catholics. He went to the districts which they contested to assist them, and nothing would have pleased him better than to have these men sitting behind him that night. It was a very great pity that the question of sectarianism should havo been raised. One man in this'country was.as good as another, and ho was very sorry indeed that tho hon. gentleman had seen*fit to raise this point. He had not said that if a section of members did not keep their pledges he would force a dissolution. What he did say was that if the Government won, which could only bo'on account of certain members breaking their pledges, it would be impossible, for the Government to carry on. But he did not believe that members would break their pledges. (Government interruptions.) The. man who broke his pledge was a disgrace to himself, a disgrace to Parliament, and a disgrace to his constituency. What he had said wa.s that the Government could not be retained in position by the casting vote of Mr. Speaker. It was the nntural desire of the Opposition party to find its way on to the Treasury benches, but if they could not get there by honourable means they would not go thero at all. "If I can't go on to the Treasury benches," continued Mr. Massey, "without offering money to the men who have made pledges " Mr. Hannn rose to object that the Leader of the Opposition was making a speech. .Mr. Speaker ruled that Mr. Massey could not debate the question. Mr. Massey said that -hon. gentlemen opposite were anxious to create an impression that the Opposition were anxious to got on to tho Treasury benches by any means. Ah impression had been created that motor-cars • had been used only by the Opposition. • . Mr. J,aurcnson rose to a point of order, complaining that Mr. Ma&sey was advancing argum.mts against a previous speech. It was not a fact, Mr. Massey continued, that motor-cars had been used particularly for the benefit of Opposition candidates. He could only si>eak from personal knowledge of Auckland, though he know what had gone on in Christchuich and in ■Wellington. In Auckland, for one car used by Opposition candidates, Government candii.ites had used five. He bolievM that, the same thing liad occurred in nearly every part of New Zealand.

ABOUT MOTOR-CARS,

STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER. Sir Joseph WARD rose in turn to make a personal explanation. The Leader of the Opposition, he said, had not mentioned motor-cars in his speech. He (the Prime. Mini.-ter) knew that the large landed proprietors of New Zealand had sent their motor-cars to be usedogainst workers' representatives and Liberals. Mr. Massey: What about Mr. Donnelly, in Ilawke's* Bay. Six cars! Sir■ Joitph Ward: He is only one out of n number. 1 know that in Wellington it was positively dangerous. They had never seen such a display of wealth before. 1 am informed by the hon. member for Napier that Mr. Donnelly never lent a car. Mr. Massey: I saw six of them. Sir Joseph Ward said that a. competent valuer had estimated that the total value of motor-cars used on one day to assist Opposition candidates was .ESO.OOO. What chance had a working man against the wealth of these large "landed proprietors, who sent their motor-ears wholesale against every poor man who tried to get into Parliament? As to what the Leader of the Opposition had said about motorcars, he had put his.foot into it worse than ever. In effect. Mr. Massev had tried to bribe the whole country. He I tile Prime Minister) had never heard of anything like it in his life. At fl.-iO p.m. the House adjourned for half-an-hour.