LOANS AND SECRECY.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1269, 26 October 1911, Page 8

LOANS AND SECRECY.

HEATED REMARKS BY THE PRIME MINISTER. ATTACK ON MR. W. H. D. BELL. A passage in a speech by Mr. W. H. D. Bell, Reform candidate for Wellington Suburbs, provided material for some heated remarks by Sir Joseph Ward last evening. In tho course of a speech in tho House, tho Prime Minister alluded to a state; ment said to have been made at ICarori last Friday by Mr. AW H. D. Bell, Reform candidate for tho Suburbs seat, to the effect that there had been "pickings" in connection with some of tho Now Zealand. loans. This, tho Prime Minister said; must bo taken as a reflection on the Agents-General and High Commissioners of tho Dominion, and it ivas one of the vilest slanders that could bo uttered against the public men of this country. Ho wished that those who uttered such innuendoes would bo more definite, and put themselves in such a position that they could be dealt with. Mr. Massey said he did not believe that anything said by Mr. Bell in his reforcne© to "pickings" would bear tho construction put upon it by the Prime Minister. Ho asked the latter to produce the newspaper from which he had quoted. Responding to this invitation, Sir Joseph Ward said ho was sorry to have to allude to this matter. He liked to see young men entering politics. Ho then quoted the following from tho report of a speech by Mr. Bell, in the "Evening Post" of October 21:-* "What about the pickings on tho raising of loans? The Government would not ?ive any details or information. What would they do with a treasurer of a bowling club or a football club who refused to give information because he said it was not the part of a financier to do so?" The Prime Minister also quoted as follows, from the "New Zealand Times" report of the same spee'eh:— "Someone has to bo paid for getting a loan through. Someone has to get pickings. Why should not you and I know who get those pickings " Opposition members laughed as the Prime Minister read the above extracts. The Prime Minister denied having said at any time that it was not tho part of a financier to give information. "When anyone attacks me," he declared, "I 6hall attack him!" Mr. Hordinan: Yon are grossly unfair. The Primo Minister: "Does tho hon. gentleman mean to suggest that there is not a miserable innuendo in that?" Proceeding, he stated that he had received a letter from a man in the north, asking: "Does the Prime Ministor receive a commission on all loans floated?" This, said the Prime Minister, was an instance of the contemptible side of people who supported the Opposition. Mr. Herdman: Make a speech in tho Town Hall here. The Prime Minister replied that ho would choose his own time for making speeches. He did not slip away continually to make speeches and come hero occasionally. • lie also said a statement similar to what ho had quoted from Mr. Bell's speech had been mado by Mr. Monckton at Otaki. Mr. Massey said that Mr. Bell must have been referring to the refusal of the Miuister for Finance to give details concerning the loans raised in recent years. Ho did not mean that "pickings" were going into • the pockets of individuals, tie meant the cost of the flotation, underwriting, advertising, brokerage, and salaries of those employed. Mr. L. M. Isitt said he did not believe that Mr. Bell meant to insinuate that Government officials were pocketing commissions on loans, but there wero thousands of people who were swift to put the worst construction on any charge of the' kind. Mr. Newman read Tub Dominion report of the disputed passage in Mr. Bell's speech, as follows:— "With all this borrowing going on tho people wero not allowed to have any details of what the loans cost. Someone had to bo paid for getting the loans through, and surely the people had a right to know. Sir Joseph Ward told them that they could not bo told, saying by way of excuse that no financier would ever tell the people he was financing what the cost of financing was." Tho Primo Minister: I have never said so. Mr. Newman remarked that tho word "pickings" did not appear in The Dojiimon report. Mr. Fowlds: The Dominion reports aro edited in the office. Mr. Newman, without noting tho interruption, ' said that the report showed clearly that Mr. Bell had been referring to the Government refusal to give information as to tho cost of the Dominion's loans. Mr. A. S. Malcolm said the Primo Minister had made a serious charge against Mr. Bell upon the slenderest foundation, and had unfairly and improperly endeavoured to suggest a connection between Mr. Bell's speech and a letter from some unknown person up the country. Mr. Bell had clearly been referring to the defeat, at the instance of tho Government, of the motions by Mr. Allen and Mr. Herdman that particulars of the cost of loans should bo furnished within one year, and (as to the 6econd motion) within two years of flotation. Tho Prime Minister hadsaid that these motions were "an insult." Mr. Fowlds said that Mr. 801 l had made an indiscreet and improper statement, and it was a degradation of Parliamentary life for tho members to try to justify it. Reference had been made to the fact that The Dominion report did not include tho word "pickings." The fact was that even tho intelligence that controlled The Dominion recognised that the use of that word was indiscreet. Everybody in the country knew that the reports in The Dominion were manufactured in tho office, like the leaders and the letters from correspondents. When Mr. Massey mado that indiscreet statement in tho Hine Committee that he would ask three times tho value of his farm if the Government wanted to tako it, The Dominion did not report it. Mr. Massey: How do yon know? Mr. Fowlds: I have looked it up. I searched the paper that the hon. gentleman is so closely associated with. Mr. Massey: I am not. Mr. Fowlds: The editor of the paper, or whoever revised the reports, knew that what tho Leader of the Opposition had said would do him harm, and so he struck it out. Mr. Herdman said that a lawyer s legitimate fees weTe sometimes referred to as "pickings." Ho scouted tho interpretation sought to be placed on tho word us used by Mr. Bell. Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon) said that Mr. Bell's own grandfather had been an Agent-Genoral in London, and during his term largo financial transactions had been carried out. If any reflection had been conveyed in Mr. Ball's recent speech, it rested in part on his own ancestor. Mr Ru c <wll asserted that n speech on all fours with that of Mr. Bell had been mado by Mr. Monckton at Paekakariki, and'sungested that they had had the samo or a similar origin. Tho Hon. R. M'Kenzie said ho recognised that that young man (Mr. Bell) was in vary bad company from tho political point of view. Nothing Vetter was to bo expected from tho "Black pamphlet push" than the expressions that fell from that young man at Karori tho other night. It was common rumour that the author of "Bun Tuck" was the coach for that particular speech. It v;as a "dirty, foul, and falso insinuation" that he (Mr. Bell) gave expression to. Those responsible might explain it as they best could, but tho stain would stick to them as long as they Lived. The survey for tho railway from tho Uganda line to the great soda lake at Magadi has been completed, and a contract has been signed with Messrs. Pauling fo rthe construction of the lino, which is to bo 110 miles in length and completed in eighteen months. The British Government do not, it scorns, anticipate any great distress from lack of employment during the coming winter, for tho Treasury grant, which has just been signed, provides for tho pavment of ,£IOO,OOO only, half the amount granted last year. There aro a hundred dilfercnt classes of amber. Europo'9 total area covers 3,870,000 milea,