WELLINGTON CITY RESERVES.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1258, 13 October 1911, Page 7

WELLINGTON CITY RESERVES.

CHARGING FOR ADMISSION. ' EXTENSION OF DAYS HOTLY OPPOSED. Tho Wellington City Empowering and kwondment Bill (Mr. Wilted) was conlidered in Committee. Mr. WILFORD moved that Clauso 5, struck out by tho Local Bills Committee, be re-inserted. The -clause empowers the council to make by-laws fixing charges for admission, to sports grounds, zoological gardens museums, and aquariums owned and controlled by the council, whether on a reserve or not. ,M m S7. in &, to again insert tho clause, iur... )Vilfora omitted mtiseums and aquariums. Sir' Joseph WAKD asked Mr.-Wilford to give his reasons for seeking to re-insert the clause. Mr.-WrLFOED suggested that the Prime Minister should read his (Mr. Wilfords) six-page speech, in Hansard, on the second reading of the Bill. Tho matter might then bo further discussed, if necessary, upon the third reading of the The Prime Minister still evincing a desire ior intorraation, Mr. WilforS nWriti th ° 1 6araeli3 "°st the ♦i y u °a , year * , unfl U was proposed vJSZ a ch! [ r ,^, of 3 'l- for admission. Proceeds would bo car-marked to be expended in buying now animals, and in extending accommodation'. He did not think anyone would object to pav 3d ior seeing King Dick. i\ r: N?^? y .; " 0r m - v °strich!" Mr. DAVLY said it seemed to him an extraordinary thing that people- and families who desired to go upon their own ■reserves should bo charged 3d. a head for tho privilege, of doing so. Costly Reserves. Mr. WILFOiJD pointed out that con. ditions in Chiistchurch and Wellington were totally dissimilar. It cost Wellingl on at ,if£f Mo ° t0 mak « » "serve, homo .ioO.OOO had heen spent in makin" reserves on tho Town Belt, which was the only placo.in which they could be made Hills had to be cut down or tuimels made in every caso, whereas in Christchurch it was merely a case of laying out an area of level land. The principle of charging ior admission to reserves was not a new one.. • Under an Act of ISBI power was given to charge on seven days. . Wellington flsked for tho right to charge on 30 days, so that more-money might be obtained with which to make recreation grounds for the people. The various sports bodies had asked that this should be done. During the eighteen months iu which he had been Mayor of Wellington not one protest had been made agam<t this proposal. Seventy thousand people in.Wellington desired this concession, and he .hoped it would be granted, even if it was,a Special concession. Mr. ftOSS (Pahiatua) said it was strange that the people of Wellington if they desired-that this clause should be.passed, had not made representations to the Local Bills Committee. It was proposed to make charges of Is. find (Id. for adults and children respectively for admission to reserves. It was tho duty of members in chargo of local Bills to come before the Local Bills Committee and endeavour to convince it that the Bills wero necessary. Otherwise there seemed no reason why tho Local Bills Committee should exist. The member in charge of this Bill had not laid any evidence beforo the Committee to show that it was necessary. MK FISHER said it was a strange thing that the public in ditferent cities went to grounds where they had to pay for admission when they wanted to see a big game of football or cricket. Tho more important sporting events must always be played on grounds where a charge was made for admission. The charges were necessary to cover the expenses of travel-' ling-teams. If the people of Christchurch had to pay as much for recreation grounds as those "of Wellington, it would break their hairta. As to what 'the member for Pahiatun had said there was no evidence on one side or the other fave that the Bill had. boon promoted by the Wellington City. Council.

Mr. Ross: Not tho first Wellington I City Council Bill wo have had to throw out! Mr. WILFORD pointed out to the member for Pahiatun and to tho Prime Minister that the days and hours spent by the former as a member of tho Local Bills Committee had not been spent in , considering this Bill. No witnesses worn I present, Mr. Ell moved: "That this clause be struck out," and tho members said "Aye." Mr. Vigor Brown: It was not Mr. Ell It was I, ho happened to bo out of tho room. A Proper Principle. Mr. WILFORD suggested that since no citizens of Wellington had come to oppose the Bill it might be taken that they wero fairly in accord with it. The Bill had been advertised. He might havo | been unwise in not having attempted , to convince members of the Local Bills Committee—Mr. Ell and others—that this was a good clause. Ho had not i thought it worth while, and in this ho ■ had been unwise perhaps. It was a . proper principle that ratepayers should bo asked to pay for going on to a ground I that they had paid for. The ratepayers ■ found the money for the tramways, but ' they were charged for riding on the trams. 1 The whole public of New Zealand found ; the money for railways, but they were ; charged for railway travelling. This ' was the only method by which Welling--1 ton could make more grounds and good > 'grounds. A Broad View. Mr. DA VET said that tho rentpayers who had nc opportunity of saying whether the money should be 6pent or not were those who were now to De asked to pay. • Mr. Fisher: Have you -notice of a single objection? Mr. Davey: No, I am taking it on a broad view. Mr. FIELD said that the cutting out of this clause would result in undoing much of the good work that' had been done by the Wellington City Council. The proper grounds could not be kept up, and no new grounds could be made unless permission were granted to charge on the extra days asked for. Mr. J. Vigor BROWN remarked that the House had thrown out Bill after Bill which proposed that admission should be Charged to reserves on more than ten days in the year. If people were, "sports" they should put their hands in • their .packets and support their own grounds. There was no connection between the "gate" at a football match and toe upkeep of reserves. Wealthy citizens should pay for the up-keep of reserves, and not the boy or girl who desired to look at a lojtball match. Mr. J. STALLWORTHY (Eaipara) opposed the clause. It might, he said, bo accepted as a compromiso that the admission, charge should not be made on public holidays. Mr. HOGAN said he had always contended that reserves, should be as free as air. He would oppose any departure from the limit of ton days. Thirsting for Air. Mr.. FISHER said. that the "thirsty" person who waited to breathe had access on 3G5 days in the year to hundreds of acres of reserves. 'The principle for which some honourable members had contended was that tho person in need of air should bo allowed to breathe the air over the precise spot &u which a football or cricket match was in progress. Mr.- FORBES agreed that the case of Wellington was exceptional, and supported tho imposition of a chargo on thirty days. Mr. HARDY spoke in similar terms. Mr. A. M. MYERS stated that as Mayor of Auckland ho had found tho number of days upon which it was permissible to charge insufficient to do justice to applications that came before the , council. Jle suggested as a. compromise that power should be sought to charge on twenty days, instead of on thirty days. Mr. ELL contended that if the clause were agreed to the same right would have to be granted to every town in tho country that asked for it. Mr. WRIGHT stated that although there had teen a reduction in rates.levied in. Wellington tho actual amount, paid, re- . •mained about the same owing l to tho; rise- . in the values of land. Mr. ELL voiced tho plea of a mother of .several children whoa desireoVsihafe thoyti i might bo permitted to play at any timo in "the park." Mr. Fishar: "Say nino children; it sounds more!" . ... ...... Mt. Ell, having spoken further in criticism of the' clauso, was accused by Mr. .Wilford of stone-walling. Mr. Ell denied tho charge, and read tho clause. Mr. Wilford: "Now read it backwards." Mr. EU accused the Wellington City Council of gross neglcot in dealing with congested areas. Mr. Wilford: "You are not going to draw me." Mr. LUKE considered that there were congested ai-eas in Christchurch quite as bad as those of Wellington. Mr. ISITT declared that Wellington had only one good road, and that was a road that the Government made for them! Mr. Fowlds: And that is a road to get out of the city! A proposal to insert the word "and" with a view to excluding ranseums and aquariumis was cainried by 40 votes to 22. Mr. ELL moved to exclude zoological gardens. He taunted Mr. M'Laren with tailing in his duty as a representative of labour and declared tliat ho was afraid of losing the votes of the cricketers and croquet players. Mr. Wilford: "Don't be drawn." Mr. Ell: "I'll draw him before I'm done. Mr. Ii'LAKEN said ho was afraid neither of tho Wellington cricketers nor of tho steam-whistle from Christchurch South. Mr. WILFORD stated that a number of members had suggested a compromise. He now made a proposal to all members of the Committee except Mr. Ell. He would ask that tho right should be granted to charge on twenty instead of on thirty days. If members agreed to this ho would ask them not to be drawn by Mr. Ell. Mr. Ell's amendment, excluding zoological gardens, was carried by 31 votes to 2G. Clauso 5 was further amended on the motion of Mr. Wilford to excludo museums and aquariums from its operation?. Mr. ELL moved to further amend the clause, by reducing from 30 to 10 ' the number of days on which charges racy bo made for admission to sports grounds. Several members remarked that this was the position under the present law. Mr. HERRIES said tho proceedings showed how expensive a well-meaning faddist like tho member for Christchurch South . might be to the country. Mr. Ell had apparently carried the previous amendment ' because he had the Ministry at his tail. (Laughter.) Sir J. G. WARD declared that ho had voted with Mr. Ell because ho thought it highly improper when there was a public reserve that the people should, lose the right to see tho Zoo without paying. He pointed out that some of the Opposition members had voted with Mr. Ell, and some of the Government members against him. He would support an amendment to have "twenty days" substituted for "thirty days" in view of the special circumstances of Wellington. Wasting Timo and Electioneering, Mr. MASSEY declared that he was now beginning to doubt, whether the Prima Ministor was sincoro in his professed desire to get the session finished in time to have tho elections completed before Christmas. Mr. Ell had wasted a great deal of time that day, and the Prime Minister had encouraged him in doing so. They all knew ho had only to hold up his hand and Mr. Ell would bo dumb. What was the meaning of the waste of time? They had seen one branch of the Legislature closed down in order to enable a. Minister of the Crown to go electioneering at the public expense. They had seen a Minister of the Crown absent from his place in the House while electioneering. Sir Joseph Ward: Who was that? Mr. Massey: The Minister for Agriculture. Sir Joseph Ward: He was absent from Saturday morning to Monday night. Two or three members remarked that Mr. Massey and Mr. Allen had also gone electieneeriug. Mr. Massey: I'm very glad I went. I made a number of converts, and llioy said they were glad I came. But wo paid our own expenses. If the House is to bn kept going, on account of LIII 3 sort of thing, we ought to know it. The Prime Minister Protests, Sir Joseph WARD said rhat the two Ministers mentioned Lad gone at their own expense, and they irere both en-

titled to go. The Upper IToujc bad adjourned because there was no legislatiou before it, owing to the K.-timates being before the House. Mr. Wilford: What about hit-Hill? Sir Joseph Ward: Oh, your Bill is a secondary matter when wp are dealing with this. (Laughter.) Ho denied thai he had been wasting time, anil protested against the suggestion that a. man could be fold to sit down, because he was n Government Whip. (Ministerial hoar, hears.) Monibors on his side were as frco as iair—not caucus-ridden like the Opposition. (Opposition laughter.) Mr. ELL said, in answer to the Leader of tho Opposition, thai when he blocked a Bill he did it in the interests of the country. He had never given way to a tit of temper, and wasted the time-'qf tho House. IL was, the. duty of Parliament, to block any attempt, of this kind by any local authority. The clause under discussion was intended to apply to the Basin Reserve. The object was to seize every Saturday during the summer months of the year. It was being attempted in the interests of cricket. Mr. Wilford: And lacrosse? Air. Ell: No, sir, I am not cross! "Furious Onslaught," Mr. WILFORD said that the furious and uncalled-for' onslaught upon himself by the member for Christchurch South could be best answered by arguments which ho had advanced in the early stages of the debate. The clause was not intended to benefit the Cricket Association only, but all other sports bodies as well. He would ask the hon. gentleman, if ho were sincere, not to place Wellington at a disadvantage as compared with Christchurch, which was in a position to form a recreation ground at a cost of £oti(i. TJuless this clause was passed it would be impossible to form new grounds on the Town Belt, which were badly required. The talc of the widow with five children who would be excluded from one ground out of nine on ten extra days in the year did not deserve consideration. Ho was prepared to accept tho compromise suggested by the member, for Auckland Bast, that of the twenty days upon which a charge would be permitted ten only would be Saturdays. If this were not accepted it would mean that the House was prepared to permit a minority, to rule and obstruct. It was agreed on the voices that the word "thirty" should bo deleted, in order that another word might be inserted. Mr. ELL moved to insert the word "ten" in lieu of thirty. The amendment was defeated by 46 votes to 17. Twenty Days Agreed To. Mr. WILFORD moved that the word "twenty" be inserted. The amendment was agreed to on the voices. Mr. ELL said that if this clause were allowed to stand the City Council would be ablo to charge for admissjon to all or any_ of the reserves on one day. He was goim? to move that the right should apply only to tho Basin Reserve. Mr. ISITT declared that this wonld bo worse than ever. The Basin Reserve was that most used by children. Mr. WILFORD moved that the following words be added to the clause: "Provided that not more than ten of such days shall be fixed in any year on Saturdays." This was agreed to on the voices. The Milk Supply. Mr. FIELD proposed the following additional clause:— anything contained in the Wellington Milk Supply Act, 1910, or this Act, it shall be lawful*for the Minister for Public Health to license, on such terms as he thinks tit, any person or company owning a milk station at the time of the Wellington Milk Supply Act. .1910, to continue the wholesale distribution of ymilk as-if neither of the said Acts had been passed.". Ho mentioned the case of the Fresh Food and Ice Company, which had such a large amount of capital in tho milk supply business, and was faced by a prospect of having its business confiscated if the Bill were passed unaltered. Mr. M'LAREN remarked that the council of which he was a member did not desire to tako part in anything of the nature of confiscation. At the same time, ,-in studying:the interests of a company, they must not jeopardise tho interests of the general public. If any licensing of ;companies was to be done, it should .be' dono'by the City Council, so' that there might bo a central control. The proposed new clause, as it stood, did not adequately protect the • interests of tho city. The case of the abattoirs was analogous. There the private companies wero interfered with, and had to pay fees so that' the business of the city might bo protected. Proper control would be impossible if private companies were allowed to operato as suggested in this clause. Mr. LUKE said that the City Council was by no means unanimous in supporting the Bill as it stood. He thought it right that private companies should be permitted to continue in business under regulations similar to those now enforced in connection with the municipal abattoir. Mr. FISHER said he believed that if the City Council and the- House realised the position, they would not object to the insertion of a clauso on the lines of that introduced by the member for Otalci. Sir Joseph WARD agreed that it would bo unfair that any existing private concern should bo wiped out when a city milk supply was municipalised. If this were fair, it would be also fair that if a State line of steamers were started no Other steamers should bo allowed to compote with them. As a matter of fact this would be an outrage. There, should be a preservation of existing rights. An Alternative Proposal. Mr. WILFORD said he could not consent to the Minister for Public Health running a milk station in the city of Wellington. Full control must be vested in the city. Tho proposed now clauso was not satisfactory from a city point of view. It did not confer on tho council powers of cancellation, of inspection, or of general supervision. As an alternative, Mr. Wilford proposed a new clause, giving tho council power to license suitable sanitary premises for the reception and sale of milk, such premises to bo subject to inspection by tho City Engineer. The clause provided, further, that a license should be revoked only when a decision of tho City Council to this effect had been confirmed by the Public Health Department. Mr. FIELD stated that he proposed to alter his amondment so as to make it. read: "Notwithstanding anything contained in tho Wellington City Milk Supply Act, 1910, or this Act, it shall be lawful for the Minister for Public Health to license for such a period, and on such terms afld conditions,- as to inspection, etc., as he may think fit, any person or company owning a milk station at- the time of the passing of tho Wellington Milk Supply Act of 1910, to continue to carry on tho business of distributing milkin wholesale quantities as if neither of these Acts had been passed. Provided that the City Council may at any timo acquire the •business or assets of any such person or company at a price to bo fixed by a. Court of Arbitration, consisting of "a Judge of the Supremo Court and two assessors, one appointed by tho council, and one by tho person or company ebneerned. Mr. Field remarked that, having considered the matter, he was of opinion that it would be a fair thing to leave control in this matter in the hands of the Minister for Public Health. Mr. Wilford remarked that the clause. as it stood would give a. monopoly to the company mentioned. Is It a Monopoly? On a division the new clause was .adopted by 17 votes to 11. Mr. WILFORD stated that the votes that had been cast "Aye" had undoubtedly "iven the monopoly to the Fresh Food an<F Ice Company. Sir. FISHER remarked that tho council had the right to enter the business, so that no monopoly could bo said to exist: Moreover, the council had been given the : right to acquire tho business of the company. Mr. WILFORD declared that the City Council had been killed in this mailer. It would now do nothing. Twelve months would show that he was right. Mr. FISHER contested this view. He , stated that if nothing had been done at the end of twelve months it would afford evidence only of inactivity on tho part ' of the Citv Council. : Mr. VRA'SKU said that Ihc attitude of tho hon. gentleman in chargeoftho Bill seemed to show that he was sorry he hail not succeeded in ruining tho company , which had placed this business upon a proper basis when if should have been done bv the corporation. Mr. WILFORD contended that this was unfair. He did not desire to wipe out the company. He- dissented from this clausa m pa3Ktl simply beoauM hi) wish- ,

Ed lo vest power in the City Council, and -not in the Government. Mr. Wilford offered lo aceoiil a clause empowering the council lo delegate the establishment of a milk depot to a company, but the offer was not accepted. The Hill was reported with amendment?. MOUNT HUTT COUNTY BILL, The Mount Hull County Bill (Mr. Hardy) war- then committed (11.20 p.m.), and met with much opposition, amendments and motions In report progress being moved by several members. This lasted until 0.:i0 a.m.. when progress was ovcntuallv reported. The PRIME- MINISTER promised lo provide another opportunity for the remaining local Bills. The House rose at 0.-15 a.m.