THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1238, 21 September 1911, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

THE VANCOUVER SERVICE.

IMPREST SUPPLY. The House met at 2.30 p.m. Tho PRIME MINISTER gave notice of his intention to move that tho House empower Government in conjunction with tho Government of tho Dominion of Canada to enter into a four-weekiy mail service between Auckland and Vancouver. 'The contract is to hold good for live years, and the sum paid by tho New Zealand Governme.nt is not to exceed .£20,000 per annum. The vessels employed are to be of not less than 0000 tons. They are to have. first>class passenger accommodation,'and to be fitted with modern improvements, including refrigerating machinery. The timo allowed for the vo.v-M.-;e from Auckland to Vancouver is It) '"The PRIME MINISTER gave notice that he would move to add tho name of i.ie Acting-Minister for Education, the Hon. T., Mackenzie,. .to tho. Education Committee. The Family Homes Protection Bill (Mr. Alassey) was introduced and read a first time. IMPREST SUPPLY BILL, MONEY WANTED PROMPTLY. An Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's Message during.tho after-. •Jioon.

Sir JOSEPH WARD, in explaining 1 why such a Bill was brought down earlier in the mouth than usual, stated that in the Advances to Settlers' TJepartmeni the applications that were coining in and being authorised were much greater than expected, so that an additional .£91,000 was required for' this purpose. 'l'lils money was required this week. 11l tho Advances to -Workers' Division an additional .£U,SOO increase was required this week. They al c o required for local authorities upon authorisations granted to them an additional !E2t>,ooo. ' A good deal of this was required to-day (Thursday). On the motion to go into Committee of Supply, at 7.30 p.m.. Mr. W. I'. MASSEY", Leader of the Opposition, complained of the omission of the Government to furnish a largo number of returns which were ordered by tho llouso last session. He also asked whether anything would be done this session for tho old soldiers whose claims were investigated by the stipendiary magistrates. Tho Five Million Loan. Mr. W. 11. FERRIES (Tauranga) asked for further information on the five million loan, and as to tho conversions of certain parts of this loan. It appeared from tho accounts that almost ali of tho aids to public works portion of it had been converted, while the naval defence portion had only been partly converted, and the advances to settlers and advances to workers' portions not at all. He could not understand why tho.people who took up these portions did not convert on tho amazingly good terms that wero offered, nor how tho conversions wero allocated to separato accounts. Ho did not know whether it was merely a book-keeping arrangement o£. the Minister for Finance. Tho cablegram from tho High Commissioner, as read by tho Prime Minister on tho previous day, stated that. .£l-12,000 .of the five million loan had yet to bo issued. He supposed this was J!1-12,(IOO stock to be floated on tho London market to. pay the cost of the loan. It could have no other connection with the loan itself, becauso if it had the accounts would bo wrong. There had already been issued c(U5,749 for tho expenses, 1 and adding that sum to tho iCI-12,000, it appeared that the expenses totalled about .£190,749, or =£3 lGs. 3-Jd. per cent. That was the extra- amount the people whq lent the money to this country pot, apart from the ordinary expenses ot inscription. This was a higher rato of cost than the million and a half loan of 1909, which appeared to liavo cost .£61,825, or ,£3 10s. Id. per cent. The Minister probably did tho best he could with the five million loan, but it seemed to him that any loan of which the underwriters had to take a very largo amount, must be counted as one of our failures. It was no use saying that other countries were in the same box, but that did not mako the transaction any better. The High Commissioner appeared to have quoted only unsuccessful issues, but there may havo been somo that wero moro successful than others. The Prime Minister: I should bo glad if you would tell mo one of them. _Mr. Herries: I. think some of tho English and Irish loans were floated on better terms. The Primo Minister: Nearly at tho same time as ours? Mr. Herries: Tho hon. gentleman did ( not confine himself to nearly tho same time. The Primo Minister: Tell us what you would do. Mr. Herries said that if he were in tho lion, gentleman's place he would not, for oho thing, issuo debentures. . He would issue inscribed stock. The Financial Statement was not quite candid, in that it did not show the debentures falling due ■ this year, which , amounted to ■£2,366,9-11. There was' no indication in the Budget as to how this enormous sum was to bo met. Further, during the following. year, debentures amounting to .£•1,500,000 would fall due. That was tho greatest 'condemnation. of the system of floating . loans on the' debenture system that'he had . come across. January 1, 1912, would'be a day to'give the Financo Minister grey hairs, as ,£1,100,000 of de'■lieritutes''would"'then' : 'fall due. Had he '.floated, inscribed stock,' instead ,of deben- - tiii-as,. he. would not have had this sword :o'f Damocles .hanging over his head. ITt> ;(Mr. Ifcrries) hoped.'inforrnation would lie given as to the 1909 and 1910 loans. The re--turn recently; tabled did'not come down further' than 1908.' The Old Soldiers. i ■Mr. E. NEWMAN: (Manawatu) urged that it was the duty of -the Government to do something speedily for the old soldiers.. -■Mr.' .F. W. LANG (Manukau) mentioned returns asked for, by him two years ago, a,nd ordered, but not supplied. Agricultural Matters.' Mr, "D. BUICK (Palmerston North) saiit-ho had not spoken, on the Budget bee/ruse the'groat 'debatable questions, such as land and local .government, were left out. He was pleased with the declaration of' the. Government's intention to start a new experimental farm, and with other l references, to agricultural affairs. Speaking at Palmerston North just before 1 the'last' election the hon. gentleman had .made. a . most definite promise, which he did not keep. The Prime Minister had stated that the"Dairy Regulations would not be gazetted until July, 1909, and would not come into operation until September of that year. As a matter of fact they had not come into operation yet. While speaking on this matter, the Primo Minister had stated that plans for a daily school at Palmerston North wero then being prepared, and that the work would be gone on with at an early date. That promise had not been kept. Another grievance he had was the neglect of th© Jtaori war veterans by the Government. These poor old men had been promised a pension every year, and they never got it. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) challenged some of the figures quoted by the Minister for Railways wheu ho recently. compared New Zealand railways and thoso of some-of tho Australian States. Ho also criticised some of the financial proposals advanced by the Primo Minister in the Budget. Cook Island Affairs. Mr. R. A. WRIGHT (Wellington South) criticised the Administration of the Cook Islands. He said it had come to his knowledge that - tho hospital at Rarotonga, which had figured in one of the charges lately levelled, had been connected up with drains just before the Chief Justice arrived to report on tho charges. In l'aoe of this could it bo said that the matter had teen fairly reported upon? Tho report -did, however,' make somo recommendations, as that a Judgo should be seat to Harotonga to deal with land title cases. This showed a consciousness that tho Resident Commissioner was not competent for tile position, and other passages implied that the Commissioner did not understand .what was required of him as a police magistrate. The drainage of the Maraerenga lagoon and other matters connected with the charges against tho Cook Islands- Administration were also dealt with by Air. Wright to tho same effect as in previous speeches. Mr. A. E. GI.OV'ER (Auckland Central) complained that tho member for Wellington South had done him an injustico which it would be very hard to forget. But he would forgive liim. Ho would treat the hon. gentleman with generosity and kill hiin with kindness. The hon. gentleman had said that he knew something about bananas and oranges. - Perhaps he did. That was his particular trade. The' hon. member for Wellington South had stated that he know nothing about Rarotonga. As a matter of fact, he knew a great deal about thoso "summer isles of Eden." In face of an assurance by the Qiiccn that there were no troubles now in Rarotonga, lnw could tho member for Wellington South justify what he had said? Mr. Glover flourished a letter which ho said had come to him recently from Rarotonga. Ho believed that if he read it the hon. member for Wellington South would never rise in his place again to criticise the Administration of the Cook Islands. Unfortunately, it was confidential.

Mr. Wright: "Bluff!" Dr. TE RANGIHIROA (Northern Maori) maintained that tho effect of New Zealand's control of the Cook Islands was good, and he approved of the suggestion that 'Tonga should be annexed. He would like to seo all tho Polynesian, islands linked together under New Zealand influence. The Premier in Reply. ■ Kir JOSEPH WARD, replying on the debate, said it was not a fact that the New Zealand loans were raised less advantageously than those of other countries. Mr. Buchanan: New Zealand pays per cent, more than the Commonwealth. Sir Joseph Ward attributed any such difference to tlie deficits created by.

predecessors of the present Government. .In regard to the five million loan, and the fact that much.of it at the time ol its flotation was lield by the underwriters, not one country that floated 11 loan at that linio was in a different posit ion. Ho was not keeping anything back in connection with the interest that was being paid. The rate at which the loau was raised was 3! per cent. Mr. Malcolm: .Nominal! Sir Joseph Ward said tho published rale was -ij per cent. Mr. Masssy: Tho published rat'e! Not the actual rate.

Sir Joseph "Ward said that if (he Government had said that Ihoso who look U)) the loan were lint to have what other countries were offering, they would have a heavy rale of discount over tho wholo period of the loan. There had been talk about tho cost of advertising, but every country that' floated a loan had to advertise. Would the lion, memlwr still say the rate was not .1! per cent? 'Mr. Malcolm: Certainly I will. Sir Joseph Ward said that if they set down on amount per annum to redeem the .£2 concession to the investors, ninepence "per cent for 30 years would he enough for the purpose. If that and all other charges and expenses were added in, they could not bring the cost of Iho loan to more than £3 lGs. lHd. per cent. The attempt to bump up the cost_ of the loan would not stand examination in comparison with what occurred in connection with other countries. Mr. MALCOLM twitted the Prime Minister with showing touchiness when simple inquiries were made as to the five million loan. He (Mr. Malcolm) had worked out the cost of the loan as a fraction under it 2s. If he was wrong he was willing to be, corrected. : Mr. .T. ALLEN (Bruce) said he wished to protest strongly and publicly against the Prime Minister's repeated statement that the Opposition were injuring the credit of tho country. They were a great deal more in earnest to preserve, the credit of the country than ho was. On the motion to go into Committee of Ways and Means,

■ Mr. E. A. WEIGHT (Wellington South) returned to tho attack upon the subject of the Cook Islands Administration. He declared that Dr. Te Rangihiroa was well aware that the charges which had been made were justified.

Dr. TE " RAXGIIFIROA "(Northern Maori) retorted that the honourable gentleman was simply repeating, ad nauseam, what he lsad Slid before. It had l>een replied to and the honourable gentleman was now simply bent on discrediting the Government in power. Mr.-A. K. GLOVER (Auckland Central) offered, if the member for Wellington South would accompany him on a journey to t!io Cook Islands, to defray nil expenses. If Mr. Wright were then able to prove his charges he (Mr. Glover) would "obliterate" himself and not seek re-elec-tion.. THE BILL. Tho Bill was then introduced. It provides the following imprest grants:— HI? ST SCHEDULE. £ Consolidated Fund 450,000 Public Works Fund 200,000 Opening up Crown Lands for Settlement Account 5,000 National Endowments Account ... 2,000 Land for Settlements Account ... 3,000 State Forests Account 2,500 State' Coalmines "Account 25,000 Scenery Preservation Account 509 Wellington-Hutt Railway and Koad Improvement Account 1,500 Railways Improvements Account 5,000 Native Land Settlement Account 500 c£G9o,ooo SECOND SCHEDULE. . £ Government Insurance Account... 7,000 Government Accident Insurance Account 1,000 State Firo Insurance Account 1,400 Public Trust Office Account 1,800 New Zealand State Guaranteed Advances AccountAdvances to Settlers' Branch Account 93,000 Advances to Workers' Branch Account 32,000 Local Authprities' Branch Account ; 26,000 Nativo Land Settlcment'Brnnch Account 3,200 Land for, .Settlements.-, ,Branch ; , . ' Account. 820 J314G.220 "Hard To Wriggle Out Of." On the motion to read tho Bill a second time, v ■ Mr. Jas. ALLEN (Bruce) said that lie had got the Prime Minister into a position that ho would find it very hard to wriggle out of. Tho impression tho Primo Minister had conveyed to the House -was that, in speaking of deficits in past years and surpluses in recent years, ho was comparing Consoliditcd Rcvenuo with Consolidated Revenue, and expenditure with. expenditure. Apparently, in dealing with the earlier years lie had. quoted from Mr. Fitzgerald's table, which showed revenue on ono side and expenditure on the other, but made no reference to loans.. To complete the acconnts it was necessary to include tho amount j-p'-v"! i'linn lonn. The Prime Minister denied that ho had used the table. Mr. Allen said it was of no use for tho hon. gentleman to'Mtempt to wriggle out. The Prime Minister had used the table | indicated or a similar one. He wns astonished that the Finance Minister should damago the country by attempting to show that year after year for twelve years there'had been a deficit. Mr. MASSEY said he also had looked up records and ho found that there were surpluses—not deficits as stated by the Primo Minister—in 1573-4 and 1874-5. lie asked whether the ,£l-12,000 of stock mentioned in connection with the .£5,000,000 loan was the stock provided for in tho New Zealand Loans Act to cover up expenses and enable the country to get a clear =£5,000,000. In Committee on the Bill, Tho PRIME MINISTER said tho amounts required for the New Zealand State Guaranteed Advances Account, as shown in tho Bill, were for interest, not for advances as stated by him in tho afternoon. Sir J. WARD said that the figures quoted by him as to deficits in tho 70's were all given in the Financial Statement of 1898. The reports of the magistrates regarding claims on behalf of old soldiers would be laid on the table next iveok. Tho Bill was put through tho remaining stages, and. the House rose at 2.7 a.m.