THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 982, 24 November 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

AN ELECTORAL BILL, SECOND BALLOT RETAINED. NEW ENROLMENT SYSTEM. During the sittings of tho House of Representatives yesterday, tho Legislative Amendment Bill came on for further consideration iu Committee. Mr. FISHER (Wellington Central) moved an amendment having for its object tho abolition of the second ballot .systenj, ..

The PREMIER said that lie would remind Mr. Fisher that the present House had already given its verdict on the question. If tho second ballot were repealed it would mean a reversion to election by minorities, as was possible under tho old system. He felt that the adoption of the amendment would be a retrogressive step. Should Minorities Have Representation? Mr. FISHER (Wellington Central) said that on the occasion of the previous vote soiuo members wero absent. This would give members a further opportunity to express their opinion as to whether the Bill should be repealed. Mr. ALLEN (Bruce) held that minorities bad the right to be represented. (Hear, hear.) He had never heard the doctrine preached before. 'What form of representation did tho Premier believe in? Nobody could say that tho working of the second ballot had been a success in New Zealand. After the first ballots influences had been brought to bear which had had bad results. Ho did not see why proportional representation should not be tried here. Mr. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) said he was in favour of proportional representation. Sir Joseph Ward: Have you ever seen it tried? Mr. Luke: I believe in lots of things I have never seen. Continuing, Mr. Luke said that his chief complaint against the second ballot was tlio fact that negotiations went oil between the ■ first and second ballots which were of an unholy character. . Mr. POOLE (Auckland West) held that an improvement could' be effected to the second ballot system, but it should be given another trial. Mr. HOGG (Masterton) said that minority rule had been exploded years ago. was only right that the majorities should rule tho minorities. He believed that tho minorities had their rights— and ho hoped they would long enjoy them. Nobody wanted the Hare system. Tho Division List, . Upon a division tlio amendment was rejected by 38 votes to 27. the Amendment (27), Allen Luko Anderson M'Laren Bollard Malcolm Buchanan Mander Buick' Myers s'™ Newman Duncan, J. Nosworthy Fisher Okey ' ' Fraser Pearce Guthrie Rhodes Hardy. Scott Herdmait Taylor, T; E, Hino Wilford . Lang Against the 'Amendment (38), Arnold Macdonald Brown M.'Kenzie, R. Buddo Mackenzie, T. Buxton Millar Carroll Ngata Clark Parata Craigio 1 Poland. Davey Poole Dillon Rangihiroa Duncan, T, Ross K'l Seddon Glover Sidey Grcenslade Smith Guinness . Stallworthy Hall Stoward Hogg Taylor, E. H. Kaihau Thomson, 'J.- C. Laurenson Ward Lawry . Witty The pairs were:—For the amendment: Forbes, Hogan, "Wright, Massey. Against tho amendment: Fowlds, Hauan,- Russell, Reed. Electoral Census. Mr. MALCOLM (Clutha) proposed the deletion of tho clause providing for the taking of an electoral .census. A person 'who would not go to the. trouble to have his name put' on tho roll did. not deserve a vote. Ho thought that the work could bo bettor done _ through the postmasters. It was his opinion, however, that the State should not undertake the work at all. Mr. FRASER (Wakatipu) described tho clause as a mischievous one. It was no part of tho functions of tho State to send people round to canvass for names on tho rolls. He did not believe in interference in this matter. Tho next thing would bo a proposal to make the people vote. Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) hoped the ,Primo Minister would , not insist on th'e proposal for the taking of an electoral census. The PRIME MINISTER said that at th< 1905 election when there was Departmental enrolment 83.25 por cent of the electors voted. Last year when that system was not in voguo tho.percentugc fell to 79 per cent. The Hon. T. Y. Duncan: If they don't vote they should be fined 2s. Gd. Sir Joseph Ward: I think it would be better to pay them 2s. Gd. to vote. (Laughter.) Mr..Fisher: You might be able to give ; them ss. when you get your fivo million loan. Sir Joseph Ward: I don't propose tc dissipate the loan as you would have me, Mr. ALLEN (Bruco) said that thf | Prime Minister had adduced no arguI ment in favour o£ forcing people to go on the roll. Abuses sprang up under tht [ proposed system when it .was previouslj j m force. > Views of Other Members. Mr. FISHER (Wellington Central) siiic ' that another reason which he would urg< • in support of his amendment was thf ' fact that it was proposed under a sub i clause to compel hotelkeepers, lodging- - house keepers, and occupiers of dwelling- ■ houses to givo all information as to ' their lodgers and workers for the pur- ' poses of enrolment. The PRIME MINISTFiR . contended that the proposals in the Bill were quite reasonable. Mr. DILLON (Hawke's Bay) said that Mr. Malcolm was an apostle of the temperance party, which would take good care to see that its friends were put on the roll under any system. Mr. BUICK (Palmerston North) said that he had no faith in cither the NoLicense or "Trade" canvassers. The test of the question was whether the persons appointed to do the work would be suitable for 'the work. Mr. N f OSWORTHY (Ashburton) said that there was no limit to the number of enrolment officers who might be appointed in any district,, which was too great a power to give any Government, and would involve the country in many thousands of pounds. Mr. GLOVER (Auckland Central) was of opinion that the proposal was a step in the right direction, | Adoption of the Proposal. Upon a division "the amendment was rejected by 4G votes to 23. In Favour of the Clause—46. Arnold Macdonald Brown Mackenzie, T, Buddo M'Kenzie, R, ' Buxton " M'Laien Carroll • illar Clark Myers Craigie Ngata Davey Parata Dillon Poland Duncan, Poole Ell ! Rangihiroa Field Reed Forbes Ross Glover . Russell Graham Seddon Guinness Sidey Hogan Smith Hall Stallworthy Hogg Steward Jennings Taylor, E. H, Laurenson Ward Lawry Will'ord Luko Witty Against the Clause—23. Allen Hino Anderson Lang Bollard Malcolm Buchanan Mander Buick Newman Dive Nosworthy Duncan, J. Okey Fisher Pearce Fraser Rhodes Gutlu-io Scott Hardy Wright Hcrdmnn A Moot Point. Considerable discussion took place On tho clause providing that applications by naturalised British subjects must bo verified by reference to records caused to be kept by the Minister for Intornal A Hairs in compliance with tho provisions of tho Aliens Act, 1908. Several speakers urged that tho clause would be unwieldy .arut stood.' .

Mr. Jas. ALLEN (Bruce) moved an | amendment, suggested in the first place by Mr. Guinness, to provide that all applications for enrolment shall be verified by the production of letters of naturalisation.

On a. division, the voting was equal, each side recording 35 votes, and on tho easting vote of the chairman the amendment was rejected.

At Clause M, covering objections to enrolment, ' Mr. Jas ALLEN (Bruce) moved to i strike out tho provision that any name ' on a Toll could bo objected to by an 1 elector registered on the same roll. This 1 was. rejected on the voices. Mr. MALCOLM (Clutha) urged that.tie Prime Minister should fix June 30 for the closing of tho general roll. As tho Bill stands ■ the general roll is to be closed on a date to be fixed by the Governor-in-Council. This, said Mr. Malcolm, was too vague. The PRIME MINISTER said it' required .to be vague. He could not accept the amendment. Mr. MALCOLM said he would move th© amendment himself, and he moved accordingly. The amendment was rejected on the voices. In reply to Mr. Herdman, the Prime Minister said provision was made whereby commercial travellers could exercise their rights at a second ballot. Absent Voters. Mr. MASSEY raised his voice for the purpose of enabling lighthouse-keepers to vote either as absent or as seamen. These people' suffered an injustice as things stood. The PRIME MINISTER said ho would like to liavo a practical method of carrying out what seemed to bo an impracticable . suggestion.. • The Government steamer only callcd at some of tlio lighthouses once in three months, and tho result of an election could not bo held over on account of lighthouses, much as he would liko to meet the lighthouse people if it were possible. ,Clause 3J, which provides that any scrutineer who leavts a polling-booth during the hours of polling, without the permission of tho deputy-returning officer, shall not be entitled to re-euter the booth or resume his scrutiny, was tho subject of a lengthy discussion. Replying ■ to criticism on the clause, The PRIME MINISTER said that men who professed to be scrutineers took records of the number of voters out of tho booths. to outsiders. The clause was necessary to ' ensure the secrecy of the ballot. On a dvision called for by Mr. Massey as to whether the clause should be struck out or not, the clause waa retained by 43 to 20. Purging of the Rolls. Exception was taken by various speakers to the addition of the following to the question to be asked of voters:—"Have you Tesided within th® electoral district for six days, either separately or continuously, during the six months last past?" At length, the Prime Minister said ho would vote against the clause, and it was struck out on tho voices. Mr. MALCOLM (Clutha) proposed tho deletion of a sub-clause providing for the rejection of any ballot paper whereon anything not authorised by the Act ]a written or marked by which the voter can be identified. His suggestion was ' rejected by 37 votes to. 22. Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) proposed that, within six months after the passing of the Act, the Registrar shall, after duo notice, erase from the official roll for the general election in 1908, the names of all electors .who did not record their votes at either the first or second ballots. Sir Joseph "Ward: That has already been done under the existing law. ; Mr. MASSEY: Oh. what has been done is not purging in tho sense meant by Mr. Herdman. Continuing, Mr. Massey said that tho . rolls were never in a worse state than at present. Under the present system only those who were known to have left a district were struck off the roll.' The suggested clause was rejected by 36 votes to 22. Maori Representation. ' Mr. MASSEY moved an amendment in favour of doing away with special representation in Parliament for the Native race. He said that if tho differences between the two races were to be broken down that would help to do it. The PREMIER said that lie was opposed to the amendment. There was statutory power already to do away with tho special Maori representation. Miv Allen: But it will never bo used! Mr. MASSEY remarked later that lie would be satisfied if the Prime Minister would meet him by agreeing that there should be ,no special representation for the Natives in certain parts of the Dominion. The average Maori was not satisfied with the - representation as at present. He regretted in some cases the representation was not honest. He could not pursue the question further, as it would be discussed in the House in a few days. / ' The Hon. A. NGATA said that he was surprised at Mr. Massey using such strong language. He was really prejudging a matter which was before a committee of the House. The Maori membors had no mandate to ask Parliament to do. away with special representation. Mr. .Massey would find that a majority of tho Natives were averse to-the'proposal. The special representation was just as effective as the representation of European constituencies.

Dr. TE RANGIHiROA regretted that •Mr._ Massey had . levelled an accusation against the Native members. It was grossly unfair and unjust to mako accusations of tho. kind. Some of the witnesses before the Hine Committee had como down" in the Opposition interest. Mr. Massey must not judge tho feeling among the Maoris from what he gathered from those Natives, ' 1 ' Additional Pros and Cans. Mr." FISHER (Wellington Central) said it was clear-that Mr. Massey did not propose. to restrict the privileges of the Natives. The, Maori representation of the South Island, for instance, .would soon have to be considered. He did'not see why the second. ballot should not apply to the Maori elections. , Mr. REED (Bay of Islands) declared that if the Maoris were, put on the European rolls not a single Native member would be returned. Dr. TE RANGIHIROA said that ho would admit that before long -special Maori representation must. cease in tho South Island. There was in . the South Island no barrier of speech now, as was the case in tho North Island. Mr. GLOVER (Auckland Central) did not see why the Cook Island Natives should not have special representation in Parliament. Mr. MASSEY said he could assure tho House that tho Natives in his district, for instance, would be better satisfied with the ordinary representation than with special representation. Mr. PARATA (Southern Maori) claimed that tho Natives had still a strong right to be specially represented in Parliament. Mr. Massey's amendment .was rejected on the voices. A new clause was added providing that licensing scrutineers may attend at a scrutiny. Four-year Parliaments, Sir IV. Steward moved a new clause providing for four-year Parliaments in future. The Premier said he could not accept tho amendment. Tira clause was defeated by 36 votes to 19. Tho Hon. R. M'Kenzie voted with the minority. Mr. M'LAREN (Wellington East) proposed that every person appointed to receive applications for enrolment should give each applicant for enrolment a receipt. The Primo Minister declined to accept the new clause. The clause was rejected by 30 to 26. A motion by Mr. Massey, in favour of the preparation of rolls in regard to Maori elections, was defeated by 36 to 21. The Bill was put through its final stages. The Houso rose at 2.25 a.m.