THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 906, 27 August 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

IMPREST SUPPLY BILL. CRITICISM AND REPLY. SOME INTERESTING SPEECHES. .When the (House met 'yesterday afternoon an Imprest Supply- Bill was brought down. . ■ '■■'.'•■ Tho schedules of the BUI were as under: — ; : FIRST SCHEDULE. .. ■•■£ ; '" The Consolidated Fund 450,000 The Public Works Fund 200,000 The Loans to Local Bodies ■ Account 5,000 The Land for Settlements Account .'..'.'. „.. ■ 1,000 Tho State Forests Account' ... 2,500 The State, Coal-mines. Account 25,000 The Scenery Preservation' Account ;......... 1,000 The Hutt Railway and Road Improvement 'Account ....... 6,000 The Railways .Improvements Authorisation Act Account 8,000 The National Endowment •Account ;;......'....... 2,000 The Native Land Settlement Account .....,„,.....„... 1,500 .■■•' : • £702,000 ;r • ■ SECOND SCHEDULE.""" " ' ' ' . " ■ .-■ . ■ - ■: £ The Government Insurance Account. 7,000 The Government Accident Insurance Account :.. 1,000 The State Fire Insurance Ac- ; count ; i..C. 1,500 The Public Trust Office Account .....;.;. 2,000 The State-guaranteed Advances Office— .''-...' ' '■■ Advances to Settlers Account ' 59,000 . Advances to Workers. Ac- . count ,11,000 Advances to Local Author- . . \ ' ities Account .150 .;. ! ; ■,'.■'■ .- £81,650

Mr. J. ALLEN (Bruce), upoh the motion to'go into Committee of Supply,said he did not think that the House should do so-'until the Prime Minister gave full particulars as to his retrenchment scheme and other important matters'; - When ; Sir Harry' Atkinson was called upon to undertake very .heavy. • retrenchment—(Sir- Joseph Wardr "Very small retrenchment")— he laid full details before the House; From '. an- examination of the accounts he could i not believe that the professed retrenchment had taken place.', Then again ho wished-to point out how ' much money being . spent- on the chief centres in post offices. To his mind the Dominion, under tho circumstances prevailing, icould not fail to be extravagant in"that regard. Tho position was that many small post offices were urgently required throughout the Dominion.' Undoubtedly justice should bo done to .the small, districts; as well as to the chief.centres. Departures Exceeding Arrivals. _ As regards; immigration and emigration, the'discussions which,had taken place had gravely disturbed- his mind. The position was eminently unsatisfac-. torjy in view, of the.fact that, every year borrowing had been done. Ho regretted'to.haye to say that during'the past.year or'two population had not been augmented by immigration as it ought.to have been. On that point ho had taken out somo important Ho found that for the year ended December 31, 1908, the excess of births over deaths was 16,897, and tho excess of arrivals over departures was 14,261, making a total increase of 31,158. For the year, ending December 31, 1910, the excess of births' over deaths was 17,562, but the. excess of arrivals over departures was only 4718, makin" a total of 22,281. The'figures for the' past six months compared with the corresponding six: months of last : year were also important. For the. first six months of 1909 the figures wore:—lncrease in births over deaths, '4129 males, 4657 females; arrivals over departures, minus 399 males, increase 317 females, or a total increase of, births over deaths 8786, less a total loss in regard to arrivals over departures minus 82, leaving a gain of population for the period of 8704.' hr regard to the first, six months of this year the figures were:— Increase of births over deaths, 3902 males,'43ol females; arrivals over departures, minus. 1688 males, and minus 1165 females.. The total increase' by births was therefore 8203, whilst the loss of arrivals' over departures was 2853, making the neii increase of .population for the period only 5350 i -In this connection it should .be mentioned that ip the year ended March 31, 1909, 4953 persons received passages to New Zealand at reduced rates: During the same period 7121 persons arrived in New Zealand from the United Kingdom. In 1909-10 2672 persons were assisted, whilst ,thc total arrivals from , tho United Kingdom were 9250.- . It was evident, that the Ministry . were not leading the country upon such lines as led to its proper development and to' the. real and true employment of the 1 people. ■ , . . [Mr. Allen ¥ then went on to deal .with the question'of defence. His remarks, and those of other members, on . the matter -. will be found in another part of this issue:]

A PLEA FOR THE CO-OP.ERATIVE WORKER. Mr. TAYLOR (Christchurch North) quoted figures showing what he declared woro the miserable earnings .of large numbers of cooperative workers. ■ In one case a gang or' eight men worked 854 hours a month at an average of ninepenco per hour. Six of them had earned £4 13s. each per mouth, aiid they had to bring up ■liirge families.' Then, again, there was the matter of the Otira tunnel. Ho had asked tho' Minister for Public Works to let him have a copy of tho conditions of contract. This request had, however, '■■ been declined, on the, ground that it might not meet with tho approval of the contractors and their sureties. He did not intend te bring up that matter that day, but there were matters jn regard to sanitation and other things, in respect of which the men had a substantial grievance, and they.would bo heard of before the session onded. In the course of further remarks, Mr. Taylor dealt with tho position as _to casual labour in the publio service.)

and the position as to the Canterbury' runs. As regards tho Land Bill, it should he brought down a fortnight be- - ' fore the discussion took place. Unless it contained provisions different from those that-were included in'last year's Bill, it would never pass. . ■ The. Hon. D..BUDDO said that.about mid-winter the .departures for Austra- " lia were usually in excess of the arri-< vals. JVom April to June or July there was always an exodus from New Zealand to Australia... When employment was flush in New Zealand in the summer, months the Australians came hero. ■ T.t had to be remembered that tho best part of the year, as regards prospects, had yet to come: REMARKS BY MR. BUCHANAN. Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) complained of the inaccuracy of ' Mr. Buddo's" statements,: and their unfairness. The statistics shored that llt. I tiuddo'had "floundered" in his statements. : Taking the figures for the six. months'ended June 30 .last,' the balance was 2553, against New. Zealand. ..- Yet New: Zealand was said by tho Premier,-in his Budget, to be at ■tho'height of her prosperity. 'If a country-iras'at the height of its prosperity it. would be attracting popula- '. '" tion in-evcr-increasing numbers. '. Mr. Greensladc: You have doue very , well in New Zealand. . ■. ■■-.-. '-• ■ Mr. Buchanan: And I could do very well in. any other decent country. (Laughter at Mr. Greenslade's . expense.) ■' ' .'.. .'' "■ Mr. Buchanan said .there were .no' doubt, various causes .for the loss . of' population, one.being the loss of con- ■ fideneo referred-to by the chairman of. iho Bank of Now Zealand. , He had heard that statement corroborated by' business ■ men with experience and a '. knowledge of affairs.. They stated that the loss of confidence had-been -pre-'I." venting employment of labour. ,''..', ' MR/HENRIES ON THE RAILWAYS. ' Mr. HERRIES (Tauranga) said he thought the Railways Statement showed '■' an improvement in: the railways, as .compared';.with, previous Stateemnts., The Hon.Ji A.'Millar seemed-to have grasped stme of the faults of, his_ predecessors. . There were now satisfactory increases in regard to the percentage of profit to: capital invested.. on earnings for every mile open, and : on net. earnings, per ; train-mile. Hoj . would not go into the question as to' whether. he had increased his profits in an illegitimate .way.. .Both, parties should-try -to make this-great asset ofthe State payable. •' Still, -Mr.Millar had not achieved &>,-■' much as h'j : hoped he would: during the current j'ear. It was only fair to state that Mr. Millar had to make' recoveries '• , from extravagances made by his ' predecessors. He was pleased to see that it was proposed to reduce the grades on, and the alignment of, tho principal. lines. There could be no objection if the.' moneys for this purpose wcto ( ' taken..: out of loan moneys.' These, big , grades were undoubtedly militating agamst _ the earnings of the railways'. ,v ....-,.'•■ The Two Main Trunk Lines. ■ '; He wished to make a comparison be- , ! tween the North Island and South.ls- : land main lines/ There could be no ■ = doubt .but that ; Mr. Millar had. increased .the earning capacity of the South , .- Island main line, buthe had.not as- : certained how he had'done it. It had to-be remembered that.there\were two ■• Easters hi last year. What had.helped the Minister in this direction was . the heavy grain season. Still the South .. Island lines lagged .behind the North . Island lines- in regard to profits. The / not return from the x North- Island .' / main ■ lines, was. £4 ,4s. 2d.-per cent;, ■■• while from the ' South >Mand main ' \, . lines it was only £3 4s. 8d: -Hβ-. noticed that' there 'werer'7oo fewer, maintenance ' workers -last year than, during the. previous year.- The .Min-.. ' ister should be able to give an assurance, that this reduction bad not. re- ; . _ suited in starving the railway system. In/a comparison between the Now Zealand and Australian- system's the Min- - ister would.be fortunate because last year was much' better than tho previous year in New . Zealand. ] Given equal terms: the Australian railways, except .Victoria, had ■' done better than New Zealand in all the , ways]of earning money.' The only explanation which Mr Millar gave was, that the Australian States had longer "leads." Wo should remember that invNew Zealand - - we wore linking. up the shorter lines. The long "leads" would .ultimately . prove a drawback in Australia. He . held that tlie: New' Zealand system of short "leads" was the better.. in. ■; ; New Zealand Mr. Millar did not sufficientlv. encourage the suburban traffic. .> < Ho believed it was a fact that the railways could be run cheaper -£•; oaty.-' Newcastle coal-were' used. ; Stijl he. •,.. thought that, it was only right that.. . the New Zealand coals should bemused. .. MR. LAMC QUOTES FIGURES. - Mr LANG (Manukau) quoted figures to show that lower rates prevailed.on • the Now South-Wales railways than on,;_ the New Zealand, for suburban traffic. Makin" a comparison in freight charges,.. -~-.> Mr' Lang showed that the -freights. ~ charged in Victoria, and'.,New Zealand' , for the same' quantity of, gram, and , agricultural-produce compared as fol- - low: —- - .■■ ..-■■■ - :-.,. ■-v ' - ■:..- - . . . New .■•-'" Victoria. " Zealand; ' . 6. d. 'siA. ■"."■ '.- 10 miles. - '....:2 6: \ 2 6 ; 20 miles: -, \A, ... 8 8..50 miles ' ■ ,% \ . 100 miles .., I I ,?•§■,-'• 150 miles ...•••■ .10 3 - f 9 .',-. 200 miles, ...........HO . 13 10 300 miles ..\. .•.•:}? 4;.. Jg.2. 400 miles ....;.....-...: lo 0 ? , 22 2 HON. i. A. MILLAR REPLIES.TO V CRITICISM. ' The Hon; J. A. MILLAR, Minister, . for Railways,'asked whether Mr. Her- • lies and Mr. Lang would accept the -.. Australian rates if be agreed to. adopt them. If they wished him to do bo he -.' would most certainly agree. '■'~.' Mr. Lang: We/wani* you to give the.' •..' same'facilities..' ' ' ". _■•'"' : .'.-'', ; Mr. Millar said that the same' subur- .- ban rates could not bo given, secin" that the 'population' of New Zealand' was so much f Dialler..' The' Opposition'. . ; invariably, clamoured for concessions ■•■ and increased services, and at the same- • time clamoured ifor, achaugo . of the, method of mnnagoment. It had been - shown at Horae that railways could not compete with: tramways; Ho disagreed with Mr. Lang that railways should go ahead of settlement.' Land speculators were not going to get assistance, in that, direction from him. Around various, \ centres land speculators were buying up land, and then before reselluig tßey. . wanted,it to be included in the subur- .- . ban area. He was prepared to give , concessions whenever possible, but the: claim must ho a bona-nde one. If there .- was any reasonable chance of a fresh, traiu paying anywhere > % it would be,, . . granted. . . .-. --. ■ ' . ■ ■ If the local authority wanted ramped bridges they would have to give a con- ■ tribution. Ho had not the slightest, , intention • of giving .■ one local, authority; a concession rfich he could not give to another- local authority. Neither . guards'nor dryers .worked moro ,than eight hours per .day/without overtime. : The guards in Sew Zealand were treat- , ed as well, if not better, than guards in Australia. : In , some .cases enginedrivers were paid a full day's pay for. only 3 J hours':: work. As regards railway men,' those, in New, Zealand were hotter oS than those in Australia. None of them would prefer the conditions and pay in Australia to those which existed' in New Zealand.' Tho article! of consumption were not so -Very much cheaper in Australia than in the Bouiinion. He went on te say that the improved working of the last year did not prove- extravagance in. ; the past..

,■■;.;; At present thero was a.lot of talk .';":: about ..tho wonderful earnings of tho .'J.: iNorth Island Main Trunk line: But. ■I as,soon as tho branch linos were mad& r ' it; would reduce the earnings of that , ; line. /Sixty per cent, of the branch . lines reduced the earnings of the.main F line's.. The main lines were dragged ■~':• down :by the branch lines; It was-in- •, ' toresting to note-that the Otago Ccn- . tral showed the biggest, increase last ■ ijear among tho 'railways of tho Dα- ; [minion. ' The percentage rose from 7s- '.-: !to: just, under. 20s. Ho admitted that '; ithe- heavy, grain 'season and tho fact ... that there were two Easters in last year improved tho return's for that '. 'period.' At any time he was prepared to,adopt tho'Australian tariff;in New ;,. >Yith.that tariff ho could show .'.- a return, of ~5 per 1 centV on the new : Zealand- railways.': .', Tho locomotivo branch-showed a reduction in tho cost, ''of-working, but. this was .due to tho completion of the North Island Main ' Trunk line. ;He denied, that tho'lincs . ; were starved last.year. .In New Zealand we* charged to working expenses what .was not so charged in Australia. As a matter of .fact,■ during the past six years £1,098,932 was spent out'of revenue on relaying lines. . ~ ■By-way of personal explanation,. Mr.. >-. Lang, stated that. in. advocating, for the encouragement of the suburban ...traffic, he was not acting ou behalf of any land speculators. . ... :■ " .

t MR. HARDY'S VIEWS., ; Mr. HARDY (Selwyn) said he believed the Minister for Railways was doing his best under very difficult circumstances, but' at'- the sametime ho was not'treating the" country , people fairly."' He read ' a'letter from-.one of his; constituents, who .-described the railways as a taxing machine, and proceeded to quote, figures to show the tax piit on the country 'settler in the matter.', of'coal and./iirnber" carried on the railways. - ■■■•"•'■"''.■ '•'■■ ■■'-' '■■':'■'.■■■- ;• VHR.HERDMAN: ON RAILWAY ;■; .: CONTROLr ■'■■■■--. .-••.-; Mr/iHERDMAN-'CWeliington l North) said that undoubtedly Mr. Millar had made progress in regard to the working; of the He. believed, however, ;that management/by an- independent "commissioner would be more satisfactory than control by a Minister of ?thc" Crown. When he relumed from Australia, -Mr: 'Millar had .slated that j he ha'd heard complaints .against-,,;the-commissioner'" system. These complaints we're, 'however,' not-' against;.-the ■..commissioners;" but owing totho.fact that the;, G" oye'rnments: did .not, snpply tho ■ /rommissioners- with 'sufficient funds.. Ho had just received: a letter from-a, New South resident,-who stated that the-commissioner system'had been in force there for ,22 -years, and the people would i'not again', submit to /Ministerial control.'-''' '■'■- ; 'V.' ! .-:•.■■"O". : ■'"' -.Mr.'-Millar: ''I , ..neVer said.that the complaints, were againstithe control of. the commissioivers , . "''AVhatrl.- said;was .that the'--criticism was;:on x tho ,samp points-'as , took'place ; ih trucksj"etc:< .'••■'""•V V '--'.'; ; 'S: •:'..*■ '.-.!.;■• Mr; Hcrdmim-/(continuing) -said .that; evorybbdy-would-admit Mr; Millar s natural ability. But no" man could, effectively-; manage a hugo concern like the railways-unless ho had the whole Voi his itime at his disposal, and unless ho was ariioxpert... After'paying, interest; New South: Wales • made.;»'. profit of £500,000 on'its railways last/j'ear.'.'Ho felt certain that '. a higher' percentage; of ? works .was charged to working expenses in Australia than ,iu New :Ze»larid.'iThenj again, he denied, that; the. conditions;of. service, etc., were .better. inJ'NeW Zealand than, ill Australia. It would be found that in-a number'-of • ;branches tho employees coiild rise higher than ..-Now, Wales , could -work" their railways by.; an export.:iind;retuni a.yiahdsgmo..profit. Greatas his ambition might'be to\pla'ce.. tb'3 NewiZealand railways.oil,a .sound footing,;-Mr,-'Millar,would--have ~'ultimately';.to: it 'Would , be. impossiblo to' do so -under Ministerial control.' /:,-■;:*■ "■:',:■■ -i.\i' ,-".'';■

f : FREICHTS.AND FARES,; ", i -.■■' •' ■■■■-Mγ.;.HMJiN' (Inverc'ai-gill) defended the railway 'management; 'arid-, urged ■'.that there, had been-practically'no ;dif- > _, ferenco, made;'in freights and ' .fares " . other than that", long-distance farts had - •..-been increased.;.;Qf late years.marvellous improvement's..had.brcn" made'-in'. , the railways.- .It was"; not right'to pick outgone or'.two..ite'ms;an3 draw'a comparison. " The. hon.'gentleman:'liad . ''tried to. exaggerate, ,with'.'the object of shaking xthe faith of the people .in .''the ■ , -Governments, None,of their criticism ; ; " could do this., ]'.' "'.'., ; . ■ ■ ' i SPEECH BY MB. MASSEY. '.. v Mr. .MASSEY (Leader of the Opposition) pointed" out that the basis of the ' railway policy had now/changed. As '■;.-.. regards;borrowing^the Opposition did no.t.believe in a Government, borrowing -■' ;to : keep itself in power. In reply to Mr. Banan," -he"iwould.'.■ say .that no .'■■/• greater, Liberals ever; sat in the. House ■ '. than Sir Harry'Atkinson'"and Sir-Wil-liam -Russell.' . lii his apologetic speech • for.. the. Government; Mr." Hanan : had showed irtsincerity: ; There was no' . greater CqnservatiWin tho House than ■Mr. Hanah. ( Laughter.) Ho hoped '■■' -.. : that the. House, would not be asked.to i: consider any "branch 'of -the . Estimates ',-. unless the .report of- the; Department ; had first been laid before: Parliament. ■ Then, again,'-he hoped-that the Public Works Statement",would mot bo kept \ , . back till.the end of the session. Not " ito { afford \the '•■■ House a ■ full oppor- ■■■) tunity; tit 'discuss .; the Statement was a-scandal. Touching on the question of.-. , , Mr. Massey said it ; ; was time'the House had the details of '. ~' the■ scjieme.-. The figures placed before : : Parliament did riot support the con- .. teiitio'ns of the Prime' Minister on t-ho i ■'. subject... Sir Joseph' Ward .that. afte'r-' ; noon had stated , that the-retrenchment ' carried out by Sir •Harry. Atkinson was nothing, compared .with x tho retrenchment : which had just, recently ■'". been carried out. He did "not agree ..with him.. Sir Harry, Atkinson"'had ; given -full details as to.the"re.trench- ; : . irient which he carried put. By reducing first of .all. Ministers'"'salaries Sir Harry Atkinson hadiset Sir Joseph •'". Ward an example... When Sir Harry - : -. Atkinson .. gave ..the .'details of his scheme he" did so. apparently without . haying been requested to do so. A Bogus .Retrenchment. ..Was it uot a fact that the'' recent ..' . retrenchment was made of non-recur- ,. '-re/ht items?; As'regards-taxation Mr. ..;■■ -, Massey "pointed -outthat additional. taxation ivas imposed-last-session. - fllivEll: Upon whom? , - "''-.'. ./' .. -Mr.vMassey: Upon everybody. . ... .'.'-;':■' Continuing his remarks Mr.-Masse} ~ said tliat the Customs duties'-and "railway faros had been increased. Sceinj, that there had been a return to prosperity he , would like to know why the surtax was not repealed.'" If.the , Prime'! Minister repealed tlie t.ix from ■ the end of the next quarter ' there would not be a dissentient voice in the Hbuse\ With respect to the question of,, immigration he said there was no getting away from the. fact that the Dominion was losing population "by reason of the excess of.departures over arrivals. Last year New Zealand came next to Great Britain in point of having supplied New South Wales with now, settlers. .Sufficient, encouragement 'was not given to people to .Hivest money in this country. It was : - lio credit to the policy of the so-called : Liberal party. When a local body or ' ■ settler -wanted money the Government was compelling them to go to it.

•Tho Hon.; T. ■ Duncan: Quito right. Mr.' Massoy: You know bettor in your own heart. . ' . Eesumiug Mr. Massoy. said tliat what was wanted .was' for the G,overhmeiit to stop ' borrowing as far as possible and encourage tbe introduction of capitai.

Tho cry of unemployment should nover bo heard in such a lino country as Now Zealand. " To the Minister lor Haiiways ho would say that ho-believed ho had placed tho railways in a bolter position from tho point of view of Parliament. Ho was not speaking from the point of view of, the residents. Mr. Millar's offer to replace the Australian rates for the New Zealand rates was mero bluff. How could they accept any other system unless they had time to look into the rates ? There was only one way of making tho railways compete with the tramways, and that was' to.introduce a motor-train'service.. Hecould not ngreo that the working of tho New Zealand railways was as sativ factory from a financial point of view as tho working of tho New South Wales railways. : ' ATTACK ON THE FARMERS' . , UNION. Mr. GREENSLADE (W'aikato), in the course of his speech, made a strong attack on the Farmers' Union, as well as offering excuses for his recent voto against the freehold. He said that he had received—from one of his strongest opponents, ho declared—a circular lcttor from the Dominion Exccivtivo of the .Farmers' Union, which was marked "confidential." It pointed out that ho (Mr. Greenslade), among others, had recently voted against tho freehold —a step which should nob be allowed to pass without comment. Q'he branch in his district was invited "by'the circular) to meet and protest against his action at onco, and the samo step should, it was urged, be repeated again and again. It was added: "The fight'is a"stern one, and will not bo won if we sit with folded hands and accept any excuse for political duplicity.". Mr. Hine: Confidential, did you say? ■Mr. Greenslade: It was confidential tc those who received it. . . .- ' Continuing his remarks, Mr. Greenslade declared that'hehad,always consistently voted freehold. i Mr. Hine: Yon went back on it this time. (Laughter.) ■ Mi\ Greenslade, resuming, said that Ma voto had been misconstrued. In tho Waikato tliero ■ was 6ne of the earliest branches of the farmers' Club, and it had rocogniseatho dangerous paths into which the Farmers' tJnion had strayed. The statement in tho circular that ho had voted against tho freehold was the last word in what was unfair and disgraceful, and he would scorn .to belong to an organisation that wpuldjend itself to such tactics. ' PRISON LABOUR. ".Mr. -REED''(Bay of : islands) declared that.suburban'railway services equal to those in Australia could not,bo expected in Now .Zealand'in view of tho difference in. population and other circumstances. The'duplication of tho lino between "Wellington and Hutl lent itself to tho introduction of a< motor suburban train service. He would -like to see-"the- system more extensively adopt-, ed. Ho went on to refer to Dr. Findlay's schema-for. putting prison labour on North of. Auckland lands for tho purpose of establishing fruity farms. This would bo a much more profitablo sciieino than tho present system of tree-planting v in tho Eotoru'a district by prison labour. The North of Auckland lands were very suitable for fruit growingV Ho had no doubt but.tho old gumfields would grow apple's, for instance, as well as any other lands in the Dominion. It was his opinion'that the fruit grown by prison labour would hot interfere with the operations of private growers. What should be. done was to establish Home markets for the fruits. The scheme would not be costly; oecause the land was cheap, and .tho -prisoners, it had to,be remembered, had to be kept somewhere:.,. If-the Government would takev up-, thetj grassing,, of, the > gumfields, the land Could .be sol'd ri) .._afc J(l .£Ji{irflet. or., four times tho expenditure which -would : be involved. Better -legislation was needed . in., connection with tho kauri gum industry.- -.-...'. ■ ■ : -'.Mr.':: G. . M..,.THOMSON (Dunedin •North) .said- ho-felt certain- that' Mr. Millar .was- generally, recognised: as'a very , capable' Minister, but ho had a very big. undertaking before him. Hβ hoped that the Prime. Minister -would see his . way: to extent! the Central Otago railway, from, Clive through tho gorge, as ho had suggested was necessary two years ago. -< ■■■ . . .... • Mr. THILLIPPS (Waitemata) thought tho expenditure on the.-larger/cities in regard to stations, buildings, ' etc., should not overshadow the. country: districts. The' grants passed by.the HouseshoulU be expended. . ', - , MR. FRASER ON LOANS. Mr. FEASER (Wakatipu) said the particular grievance- ho had to voice was in regard to the time-table on the Otago .Central line, between. Dunedin and Clive. The present time-tablo might suit a few commercial ..travellers, but it : was .the. settlers in the backblocks who-should bo catered for.,; Referring to-the-■extravagance shown' in the construction of the Cliyo'lme, Mr. -Fraser- said- there -were scores of miles along the line which could have been constructed . at quarter of tho cost if the plough,. scoop, arid grader had been used, but they preferred to use the shovel and barrow.. The money spent' in taking the lino "to Clivo should" have carried' it to Hawea. It was high tinio the country knowv something about the details as to<tho raising of . loans :'raised from nine months to 14 months ago. >. Tho Government was apparently, refusing to divulge, the. information. Ho. did not intend to drop the subject, and would, revive it as often as he got tho chance. CO-OPERATiyE LABOUR. Mr. HINE (Stratford) referred' to the question of the co-operative system. It was, he said, tlie first time tnat he had known Mr. T. E. Taylor take up the subject. There could bo no doubt but that these workers and their families laboured under disabilities. If every other member of the' House took as much- interest' in the co-operative worker as ho dicl none of the workers would bo earning only- 2s. 10d. per day. A member: . Some of'them "loaf." ;. Mr. Hiiio: I doirt deny that stmio of. them may "loaf." v .-- Continuing his remarks, Mr. Hine said that personally he bolioved in.the small contract system. Undoubtedly money was wasted as a result of the co-operative system, which meant a' levelling down so far as tho workers were concerned. Mr. M'LAItEN- (Wellington East) ■declared that while the State cooperative system was capable of improvement it had been of very great value to this country. If tho workers as a wholo were not to deal with political. matters they could not protect their own interests. REMARKS BY THE PREMIER. The PRIME MINISTER said that there wore, thousands of farmers who would never go over to the Conservative party. They would object to the uso (which Mr. Greenslade had slio-.wi) ut the Farmers' Union for political purposes. When the State'.Advances Bill .was going through Parliament that sort, of tiling had also happened. To Mr. Allen lie would like to point out that the Government was not starving the country districts in the matter of post oilices. At the present moment post offices were being built in country districts to the aggregate, amount, of £210,000. At was 'impossible to delay tho erection of tho now post oflices at Auckland add Wellington, and the new public buildings at Cliristchurcli, owing to the expansion of business. As regards the Wellington and Christ.church buildings, tho savings in rent would pay the cost of interest on construction. Tho delay in passing, the Imprest Supply Bill was duo to tho Opposition. It was in striking contrast to the magnanimity of the Opposition in the nast. Now, for say six weeks.

he would ask tho House to leave tho Estimates alone, so that tho important Hills might bo advanced; The Public Works Estimates would not be brought down until tho Consolidated Estimates, were put through. During the second reading debate, Mr. Massoy said that ho was surprised that tho Prime. Minister was annoyed that tho Hill was not passed without discussion. Ho had listened to his remarks on the subject with a good deal of interest. If any driving • ' tactics wore adopted by the Government, he would have to'consider the advisablehess of following a course which ho adopted- towards'tho 'end of last session. As regards retrenchment, tho Pfiino Minister declared that tho Government hod been misrepresented. Mr. Allen had somo time ago declared that under the scheme the smaller salaried officials had suffered most. Last year 5961 employees earning under £200 had received increases, 772 between £200 and £300, 124 betwneu £300 and £400; 19 between £000 and £GOO, seven between £600 and £700, two between £700 and£Boo, mid four over £800. This year tho position of increases was: 8344 und'tr £300, 196 between £300 and £400, 23 between £500 and £603, 10 between £fioo and £700, one between £700 and £800, and three over £800. He went on to say in regard to progress of business he had not made anything in tho shape of a threat, hut the Govern/lnent also would not allow itself to/be coerced. Regarding immigration he '.ttmld say ho did not see tho use of comparisons unless there was a reasonable analogy between the two countries compared. The positions between Canada and Now Zealand wero altogether different. He wished to know .whether anyone- could give an' 'instance' whore thero had ever been any possibility of a. break in connection with the financial operations ot the Dominion.--The Bill was then put through its re-maining-stages.' ./