ATTACK AND DEFENCE

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 906, 27 August 1910, Page 6

ATTACK AND DEFENCE

A DAY ON IMPREST SUPPLY.

SEARCHING CRITICISM BY THE

'OPPOSITION.

RAILWAYS AND RETRENCHMENT.

MINISTERIAL REPLIES.

In the Legislative, Council yesterday the Hawke'a Bay River Bill was read a first, time, and. was referred to the Local Bills Committee. The debate on tho second reading of the Crimes Amendment Bill was concluded, and the Bill was referred to the Statute's Revision Committee. The House was engaged upon an, Imprest Supply Bill yesterday. • Mr. Jas. Allen, M.P. for Bruce, who opened the discussion, alleged political favouritism with respect to the Defence Department. His criticism evoked a lengthy rejoinder from the Hon. G. Fowlds, Minister for, Education. Messrs. Herdman and Hemes and the Hon. J. A. Millar followed with interesting speeches on the railways administration. Later in the debate, Mr. Massey, . Leader of the Oppositio'n, dealt with the question of retrenchment and other ,-important matters. The Prime Minister defended the administration of the Defence Department at length. THE COUNCIL. HAWKE'S BAY RIVER BILL. When tie' Legislative Council met at 2.30 yesterday afternoon ' The Hon. J. D. ORMOND (Hawke's Bay)' moved for leave to introduce the Hawke's Bay River Bill. The Bill was read a first time and was- referred to the Local' Bills Committee.• . ■

GRIMES AMENDMENT BILL. ATTORNEY-GENERAL REPLIES TO CRITICISM. . ; Replying to the debate on the Crimes Amendment Bill " Tho Hon. Dr. FINDLAY said that the sympathy and ready approval given to this branch of social reform were but symptomatic! of the.wider and deeper stream flowing .through tho hearts of the people. . The whole basis and pivot of the system was that, allowing for. classification and the varying treatment that must follow it, reformative treatment must begin from the day the prisoner entered-the gaol or reformatory. They hoped-and would try to secure reform in the most hardened cases. ' Hβ was convinced that there must be a system of indeterminate sentence beginning in some cases from the time the prisoner left the dock. Owing to tho fact that the Bill was a novelty he had been afraid that if he embodied tho full indeterminate sentence _ com-, mencing from the time' the prisoner left the dock the Bill might encounter perhaps insurmountable opposition either in the Council or in another place. . After much thought' he had cut out of the draft Bill the. provision for, the full indeterminate sentoiicc. He had now, however, come to the conclusion that it; must be restored. Judges must bo given power to impose tho indeterminate sentence from the beginning. The determinate sentence must also bo retained for certain cases, and there must bo tho determinate followed by tho indeterminate system. Both tho Council and the House yrould, he believed, pass the indeterminate .•sentence in an unqualified shape. However, there should be some-limitation imposed and probably a period of ton years would be long enough. He would prefer to have it unlimited, but. unless a limit was fixed people were apt to- 1 be frightened. Everyone likely to come under-the Bill had his freedom sufficiently safeguarded. ' Hβ was convinced that the more they limited tho '• indeterminate sentence the more its good effect would bo embarrassed. Referring ,to the discretionary power proposed to bo given to Supreme Court judges, Dr. Findlay. argued . that the . discretion already given was as wido as that proposed, which had raised some. opposition. Ho did not think tho power would..,bo abused! ■ Avoid Monotonous "Work." ■ As to the employment of prisoiiom in the gaols, an , endeavour must be made to give' the men work which; would not expose them to the deadly! monotony' of-prison work of the; past. The wholo success of the.system lay in getting away from dead monotony. The work should be such ■ as to call on. the vigilance, intelligence, and actual phy-. sical side every hour and every day of the week.'■ As a general policy, it would be wise to concentrate the training on equipment for the land 'iir preferenco to teaching trades. If tho prisoners were mado to learn sciontme agricultural work it would exercise their faculties, aud would, provide u qualification which would always gam the prisoner employment. . The safety of a", man leaving gaol mainly depended upon his keepii.s! away from the town, and the teaching of a trade would probably result in keeping him in town —tho very nest, of criminals. Further, work at "trades .was very often fitful and difficult to obtain. Ho realised that there might bo occasions on which it would be necessary to teach young prisoners trades, particularly where Uio prisoner had a si>ecial aptitude. for a trade, and it ; suited the Government to teach him. Free labour would not be imperilled or would the small amount of such teaching compete with uther trades., Tho effect would be so small that those connected. with the. trades who knew tho facts would, l\o was sure, raise no objection.. Tiic Prison Board. After referring at length to tho scheme for using prison, labour for ■improving farm lauds in Uic North' (reported elsewhere), Dr. Findlay said ho agreed that the Prison Board should not be limited to Civil Servants,' and at a later stage he wonld probably make provision for the inclusion ofmembers who were not Civil Servants'. A system of marks would be given to oach prisoner by each warder under whom he worked, which marks would enable the board to see at once what a prisoner's behaviour had been, and whether or not he should be released. Thus the prisoner's liberty would not he in the hands of any individual. A good deal had been said about the inexpediency of placing the Chief Justice or any other Judge of the Supremo Court at the head of tho board, but this ho believed would bo ono of the best guiivantwis thad tho honrii would bo free from improper influences. It L would be. a. great loss to the board if the provision for a. Supremo Court' Judge were not retained. Ho had tho assurance of the Judges of the Supreme Court ■ that in tho future they would show the utmost sympathy in the now reform. With the addition of the members outside of the Civil Servants/ ho thought tho board would bo as perfect as it was possibl-o to get it. Advice to Gaol Officers. The. reform might be confronted by the difficulty that warders and gaolers

would not alter the old system, and would persist in the old turnkey system, but he would say,that if the officers showed themselves incapable of adapting themselves to .the reform, or would not do so, then they must. go. "Unless tho officers were in sympathy with tho reform it could not succeed, and it could not be sacrificed from this cause. In conclusion, Dr. Vindlny said ho was not trying to introduce any fantastic amendments to our law, but when we found 53 per cent, of recidivism and 4G . per cent, of our native-born in gaol, there was clamant need for reform,. . Although he did not agree with all _ that had been' said about drink being tho principal cause of crime, he was sure that if drink wau cut off to-morrow it would enormously decrease the prison population. , Tho Bill was read a second time, and referred to the Statutes Revision Committee. . ■ '■