THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 869, 16 July 1910, Page 10

THE COUNCIL.

I INDECENT PUBLICATIONS BILL. SPEECH BY DR. FINDLAY, ' In moving the second reading of tho Indecent .Publications Bill in the Legislative Council yesterday, Tho Hon. ])r. FINDLAY said'that the Bill, was one of very considerable importance, and if carried if would ho exceedingly wide-reaching in its operations. Ho recognised that any legislation which trenched, as did- this Bill, on the liborty of the press and public demanded the most jealous examination, but wiiJo they, desired to support tho liberty which ennobled they did' not wish to encourage the license that degraded. It had been increasingly felt both in Now Zealand and clsowhero that'the limits of truo libefty must be prescribed by the intelligent moral sonse of tho community. They had long seen the necessity of legislating with considerable vigour against what impaired the physical health of tho people, and tho timo had come to do tho same against what, impaired their moral wel-, fare. Ho did not think it necessary for him to impress on any .member of that council tho necessity for sunn legislation. Dr. • Findlay quoted the -strong denunciation in Tennyson's "Locksley Hall Sixty Years After" against impure literature. In this country tho budding rose of boyhood and of girlhood had been polluted by a class of journalism which should .bo put down. Into thousands of homes in this country, and into thousands and thousands of young minds were- entering a literaturo and journalism ■ whioh could only bo called degrading, and that stream, if possible, innst'bo stopped. Ho was not referring to journalism alone. ' Ho believed that there was a class of book almost as vicious as the journalism to which ho had referred, a nlass of bonk that was published for the purpose of profit, dealing with the most sordid and degraded sides of our nature, and they .should make it theirdufcy to stop the circulation of such booku. No Punctilious Prudery. He was as anxious as any man to avoid a fussy and punutilious prudery that would probably kill true literaturo, but between that and tho disgusting indulgence in sorni! modern novels there was surely tho width of heavon. It was easy, on' the whole, to say when a book ;was of the kind ho had described, though other bocks were upon the borderline Certain books whioh had been circidated in this country lately deserved no other nrimo than disgusting. Ho recognised that, it was necessary to provide a wido latitude—at any rato a very reasonable latitude—in regard to questions that might ho treated in the press. Ho thought that Clause 5, which set forth tho clauses determining whether any matter was or was nob indecent, gave as wido a scope as any decent man could ask. It might he thought that-the latitude loft by the clauso was rather too wide, but it was necessary to trust to tho . intelligent discretion, of magistrates. Tho Bill provided for the ordinary appeal given under tlie Justices of tho Peaco Act, but there would bo no appeal beyond the Supremo Court. (Hear, hear.) No decont scientific work of any ; kind would como' in conflict with the Bill. Prasent Law Not Effective, > . . The law as'it stood to-day was 'severe enough, hut it was not effective. Dr. Fiudlay referred to tho clauses of tho Crimes Act and Police Offences Act bearing on, this subject. Under tho latter Act a. right of jury trial was given, involving delay, and-..other difficulties. ■A number of clauses would bo repealed in tho Police Offences Act, .which had not proved, sufficiently effective. • At present tho-publisher of indecent matter could'not : bo tried summarily except by his. own consent. Tho right of trial by a jury was now proposed to bo unless tho accused- was charged on ono of the graver issues under tho Crimes Act. . Tho clauso enumerating persons who should bo held severally liable for an.indecent publication was required,- because previously when proceedings had been taken against certain people, it was something liko tho thimble and the pea. Ono could never tell who tho man was against whom proceedings should bo taken. Tho Bill would got at everybody who ought to bo mado responsible., Tho measure" did not apply to indecent publications in a _ private house. No medical book which was published for a bona fido medical pur-., pose would bo in. danger through, tho 'measure. . AVith regard to tho olauso making guilty of an offence any person who "knowingly sends, through tho post an indecent document," Dr. Find■lay said that this clauso would bo altered so that-runners'or distributors who knew what 'they wore distributing bo liablo, while postmen and !other innocent mossongeis would go frco. . Printer's "Devil" Wot Affected. Tho Bill was aimed against tho printer of an indecent paper; it would not aifcet tho printer's "devil" and tho boys in tho office. Ho had received from every part of Now Zealand, expressions of "tho most unqualified ' approval of tho Bill, He had been asked ' to go further, and provide that where an offence was repeated moro than once a magistrate should ha-vo power to confiscate- tho printing plant, subject to a right of appeal. Ho would refer this suggestion to tho Statutes Revision Committee, who might think fit to incorporate-it in tho Bill. It was provided that except by permission of the Attorney-General informations under tho Bill should only bo laid by the police, who he thought could bo trusted to administer the law with. His-

cretion. There would therefore bo no fear of private oppression under tho Bill. Ho hoped that if 'this measure was passed it would put a stop to a disgrace which had continued too long in this country. No ronu-tablo newspaper would bo embarrassed, in tho' slightest by tho Bill, and those newspapers which did not carry on their business as they should—fortunately triey wero very few—would find it to their safety and profit to mend their ways. "Extraordinary Antics." Tho Hon. E. 0. J. STEVENS (Canterbury) thought that no information should bo laid by a policeman or anyone else without the consent of tho Attorney-General. From tho extraordinary antics of the police in many directions and the number of cases that were dismissed for frivolous information, ho certainly did not think that the public wero safe under this provision of tho Bill. Again,-it often happened that a highly reputable author in England published an objectionable book, which a local bookseller might receive - on the recommendation of his Homo agent without the least suspicion of its character. It also appeared to him that most of tho employees in a nowspapor office—even the shareholders in a newspaper company—might bo convicted under the' Act in case of indecent matter being published. Dr. Findlay: That is not intended. It can bo made quite clear when tho Bill is in Committee. Mr. Stevens said. that everybody must 'appreciate tho objects of tho Bill An Insidious Evil. "Tho Hon. 0. SAMUEL (Taranaki) suggested that if tho remaining sections of tho Crimes Act dealing with indecent publications wore repealed, and all the penalties provided under this measure, it would bo an advantage. Ho agreed that the legislation dealing with these offences should be drastic. Moral impurity was at least as hurtful as physical impurity, and it was moro insidious and far-reaching. It would be impossible for bookseller." to avoid a technical offence under this Bill, He had himself seen a bonkA member: Can you'got two copies? (Laughter.) Mr. Samuel: No, but I can tell tho lion, gentleman where ho can got u copy. The book was by a highly reputable author, but it was most objectionable The Bill might become an ougino of terriblo oppression unless it was administered with discretion and with a sense of responsibility. It was only tho necessity for such a drastic measure that justified its existence Ho hoped that tho Attorney-General would seo that police inspectors were very carefully instructed in connection with tho Bill. It was only by imposing responsibility on tho police < that they could be kept up to tho mark. The Hon. H. SCOTLAND (Taranaki) thought that ho detected in tho Bill "just a slight suspicion of puritanical cant." Ho believed, that if tho Bill became law it would do neither good nor harm. Thore wero very many passages in the Old Testament which a parent dared not read out. before, his children, although these passagos were not intended to corrupt, and thoy did not corrupt. , In tho works of Shakespoaro there wore passages which were grossly indecent. Ho could point out linos so disgusting that no uiodoni publisher ventured to print tliem, and they were only to ho-found in the first folio. Tho works of Foilding, Smollett, and even Sterne contained passages, that were perfectly disgusting. Those works were still read, but thoy appeared to do no harm. To tho pure all things wero pure, and no one could be corrupted by a bad book who was not willing to bo corrupted. Wero they, to bring hooksellers beforo the' Court for selling Byron's "Don Juan"? Milton-had stated, when protesting against the censorship of the press, that truth, would never bo defeated in a contest with untruth. "Let thoso people alone,*' said Mr. Scotland, "and they will find their own level. They will do no harm except to those who lay themselves open to receive harm." A Respectable Press. -The Hon. R. A. LOUGHNAN (Wellington) said that there had never been' a whisper of reproach against th» newspaper press of New Zealand until a recent occasion. For reticence and purity m was not surpassed by tho press of ally country in the world. He doubted ifit was necessary to go so far a.s tho ■ Bill proposed. Tho printer should not be. included'among persons liable, and tho proprietor and managor should havo some consideration. It should he mado a defence for a proprietor to show that he had no knowledge, lndecont matter ■might get into a newspaper by sheer accident. Dr. Findlay explained that in shcli a case tho Interpretations Act provided' for a conviction without a fine. Tho discussion was adjourned at 4.40 p.m., ami the Council roso, to sit a«aiji on Tuesday next. °