CABINET METHODS.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 639, 16 October 1909, Page 7

CABINET METHODS.

V EXPOSED BY MR. HOGG. . .• . THE UNKNOWN LAND POLICY." DREADrJOUGfiT GIFT EXPLAINED. • • THE PRIME MINISTER IN EEPLT. "As for. the Government's land, policy, I'don't know, what it. is now. l . I don't know that the right hon. gentleman's colleagues know it. At all events it was never disclosed to me. I have" had great doubts about it, very serious doubts." This statoment of Mr. A. ,W. Hogg, mado in reply to' a, statement of too Prime Minister that the policy of the Government was explained, to him before ho joined the Cabinet, was d sample of other plain-spoken remarks that grectedi the House of Representatives from tho late Minister for Roads and Bridges last evening. Mr. Hogg made a speech which dealt with his retirement from tho Ministry, and to this Sir Joseph Ward replied at length, reading the correspondence which passed between Mr. Hogg and himself relative to the former's appointment -to Cabinet rank. Certain assertions in this reply concerning .1 he conditions of appointment were not 'agreed to by Mr. Hogg,.who declared that members must judge' between. his statements and those ?f the Prime Minister. An' interesting description of the manner in-which tho Dreadnought gift was dealt with in tho Cabinet was also made, by Mr, Hogg. , ! . .... ■ MB.HOQG'S SPEECH. , .The cx-Ministbr commenced his speech in a hopeful and self-congratulatory strain." He found,.ho said/a ray Of light in the reference in tho Governor's Speech to "malting rural lifo more attractive, and preventing aggregation of laftds; I asked myself, said Mr. Hogg, "Have the opinions of his > Excellency's advisors changed or advanced in tho right direction. Land aggregation is the twin brother of-mono-poly, the thing that I have been denouncing, and for denouncing which I have been condemned by members of the Government and their supporters." Mr. Hogg read extracts from what he . termed his ' now . celebrated' speech of the short session which led to his retirement.: The leading newspapers of tho capitalistic press had raved and howled against him on account of that speech. "I had committed the unpardonable sin, and I awoke a'simultaneous'editorial'chorus. Why? Because- I-maligned the-fat man, tho monopolist! the man: who is responsible for the share register that holds so' important. a place in every one of those periodicals. I, had calumniated tho exploiter, and tho poor editors raged and tore "their hair, that is, thoso that hod any. :The Christchurch 'Frees' described mo as 'the. untameable Hogg.' That is perfectly .true. I have never been broken in,; I havo never. had tho bit in my month, tho harness on my shoulders." Mr. Hogg contrasted other newspaper epithets which had been directed against him in the four cities, with tho receptions he had received from the workers'. The streets of Auckland were "crowded behind him," and resounded with approbation of'his views. He. was "lionised" ,in Dunodin, When he denounced monopoly in the House, ...ho■:. ,'was really addressing' ' a much larger audience—tho country. Ho reto, and read extracts from, tho congratulatory letters ho had received. He had always prided;'himself on being candid: and fearless m support of his convictions.'."lf you fut Salt oh the tails of slugs they shrivel up. spoke out my convictions, andrit operated on somo of the political slugs even in this Assem'bly." But there was no representative who should bo ashamed to speak | out bravely and manfully. He despise'd the man who was not true to his beliefs, no matter what position he might hold,: if. it was the highest position in tho country. ... 1 ... ,'.-;, - Praise for Mr. Massey. ..!..,•.:. Mr. Hogg.said he was glad'.to ,do-honour.to the Leader of tho Opposition. ■' Ho knew that the.Leader of tho Opposition/was sincere, true, .to his principles, and true" to his friends." For that: he honoured, him. "Ho is true to his trnditibris,' and he keeps his party remarkably well together. There is vory little dissension of,any kind; They ore all' bound together as firmly

as granite tor a particular purpose. Imay not agreo with them, but I-admire : men who stickshoulder., to Bhpulder, even if they are lighting for a cause I cannot ndmiro and cannot support." .';'.'>"r. ; ',>,t".'i?.. ;'v,cS.'.!',:i'. ; ;V V'.y; '. Cabinet's New-Hobby; Horse, ■ ■

■: Continuing, Mr. Hogg Said ho: believed had offended.the weak-kneed"supporters'.of the Cabinet. Ho: resigned without remonstrance, because ; hn'accepted office not':for'personal gain of emoluments of any klnd.'but,simply, be-: cause he thought he might bo of servico to the settlers ofNon Zoalana. ,Now,.,very much, to his' delight he found the Prime Minister and Cabinet wero-mounting some of his favourite hobby horses,' and if they would only keep their-place there and ride straight he would do all he:could to help them in carrying out the reforms that were so. badly required. He had always been opposed to monopoly, and he had always been on the side of labour. , That was where he was at: tho present -.'•: time. The ; Prime ; , Minister •• seemed . now", to be taking a good course, and one .'which ho;'-looked- Upon, as ■ a .safe ''course.'; in:'the.' long' run,. out..:, of., tbo . capitalistic: shoals that surrounded them. The allusion .to : preventing, aggregation,, coupled with recent' addresses: of.; the. Attorney-General,, gave' him hope ; that 1 the Cabinet sails were now bending to public opinion. . He.was beginning already to feel compensated for what he had experienced., .-'Mr.' Ballanco, Sir J. M'Kenzie,' and the late Mr. Seddon had gone through far: worse ordeals of denunciation for the public cause. They never yielded to weak-kneed followers, and he was sorry for any statesman who would yield to, those who '.were simply-cyphers; and unfortunately you would always find them wherever there was a strong party. . „ ~■'••'. . ■~.A Price-of Labour's Support. ~ Hohad entered the Cabinet in'order to'help 1 the: settlers and workers, and he began to think now that his purpose had not been in vain. Ministers apparently woro taking courage.. They felt, ho believed, that.they had the people behind them: in doing What was right,: and if they would only do what was .right and deal with this land question and the question of monopoly, and prevent the agfregation of holdings, and monopoly not of and only, but of money, they could rely upon, it thero would be no third party,: but they, would bo adequately supported.: .If they would only ■ give, Labour fair play,. Labour would stick to them. If they..would remove-the. duties from food and help to fight for his: Flour .'Duties Bill they would have a large portion at least of the Labour party immediately behind them. "Some day the dead carcass of the 'flour millers' monopoly will be.found on tho beaoh, and there are going to bo a great many other '■'■■ carcasses. • A great deal of blubber:' will be boiled. ' down, ■ and , you will have the bones to stick in our museum." 'According to Mr. Hoge the manufacture <)f big,estates, has" boon one of our most-pros-perous industries during the past 1C or 17years. Monopoly has (he continued) had a good .'innings; but it has never thriven So .well is under ithe bad legislation of 1892. Ho did not blame those who were responsible for the pissing' of that legislation. What he said was.'that further snitablo land legislation should have been, put on the Statute Book since that date, to prevent-the aggregation of estates. Under our splendid Liberal laws, between 1891 and 1907, over. 18 million: acres of Crown lands' had beon settled, and about one-third-of tho huge area had passed into the hands'of 51 persons. In' 1891 there were 31 estates!-of over 50,000 acres, occupying 2,602,187 acres; in 1907.there were 88 estates of oyer 50,000: acres, occupying 8,884,295 acres. .SIR JOSEPH IN REPLY... ■'■. The Prime Minister said that it was his duty mora in sorrow than in anger, to express his very painful surprise at tho extraordinarymisstatements' made by' the'member for Masterton, in whom he had always taken a kindly interest.' Before Mr. Hogg joined the Ministry, he explained to him the policy of the Government, and when asked whether ho was in accord with it, Mr. Hogg said that he was. That policy he would like to mention had nover boon changed, and Mr. Hogg had joined the Ministry with a fml knowledge of its details. Never once' during his connection with the Ministry had Mr. Hogg raised any question in regard to tho Government's land policy, nor taken exception t6 what tho Government was doing in the matter. In a kindly way he had on one occasion'-to point out to Mr. Hogg that ■one of his utterances, in regard to a financial matter was'not in accord with that of the Goyernthont. Mr. Hogg admitted that he had dealt, with a matter with which ho had nothing to do. Ho regretted that Mr. Hogg had endeavoured to make out that ho sacrificed his position because of his views oh the land question; and becauso he was- against monopolv. Both of those statements were absolutely contrary: to fact, as far as the Government was concerned. No such ■ questions arose nt any time. It was the duty of Ministers to conform with .the recognised constitutional position as regards the Government of tho day. Mr. Hogg himself wis responsible for the position in whioh he now found himself, and no; one regretted that the position had arisen more than ■ Ee and his colleagues.

| During the short session he heard with regret Mr.' Hogg's attempt to make capital out of n decision arrived nt by (Jabinot. Mr. Hogg supported the gift of the Dreadnought, also that'he should go to the Naval (Jqnference. lo oxpect him not to refer to tho matter was to expect human nature to leave him. Mr. Hogg had said something about deserting one's friends, and suggested by imputation that Mr. Massey'would not desert his friends. It whs quite unconstitutional for Mr. Hogg to hava expressed opinions in the House on a matter in regard to which he had concurred in entirely, different views. As a matter. of oourtosy he'should havo given him notice of his intention to do so. If it had been possible he would have liked to havo shut his eyes, but if'he and his colleagues had'been weak, enough to concur with Mr. Hogg in connection with the matter he had no hesitation in tiring that there would have arisen' a financial crisis unexampled. The day a Government ap- . proved a system of paper money such a 6 Mr; Hogg outlined would" bo the eve of financial ruin. Mr. Hogg could not, as a Minister, do what he inight do as a private member.: He,did not think there was one member who did not feel deeply grieved oh .the occasion of' Mr. Hogg's speech.'' All the-members who had spoken to' him (tho speaker) on the subject— and they included members' holding extreme views—had recognised the danger that was created. If there were two captains in a ship, trouble would result. He (the speaker) had never at any tiino assumed in connection with the internal Government of the country anything in tho shape of autocracy or. offensiveness, but on the contrary ho had in his responsible position tried to prevent friction ana trouble. ,< "Would Not Injure the Party." * It was not fair for Mr. Hogg by innuendo to suggest that ha went ouf of the Ministry owing to the reasons which he had alleged. After Mr. Hogg had made the speech of'which he complained, he had a conference with Mr. Hogg, and afterwards wrote to him stating that he regretted circumstances rendered it necessary for him to ask him to relinquish his position as Minister for Labour and Customs, and as a member of the Executive. He was doing so, he had said, with extreme regret, but a number of members of the party had informed h'im that they could not continue to support him if Mr. Hogg were retained in the Cabinet in face of tho views to'which' ho had given In reply. Mr. Hogg, had stated that he regretted the circumstances which rendered it necessary for him to send in his resignation. He had (he had continued) no desire to do anything injurious to the Government nor the' party which supported it. Mr. Hogg had also thanked hjm for the personal courtesy and consideration which he had extended to him. Sir Joseph went on to say that what occurred took place in the light of day.. Up to the date in question Mr. Hogg had conformed in every way to the policy of tho Government, excepting in regard to the financial matter to which ho had alluded.' Mr. Hogg ..could, not blame anybody but himself in the matter. There was no member';of the Ministry during the time that Mr. Hogg was connected' with it that was not against tho aggregation of estates, against the creation and continuance of monopolies, or unprepared to do his best on the side of the distressed and oppressed. Had lie been weak enough or cringing enough to havo avoided his duty, then ho would hot have been fit to bo a member of the Ministry or a member of the Houso.. With regard to Mr. Hogg's reference to courage,' he would liko to say—and he had had storms and stresses in his life—that he had never flinched in tho face of trouble, nor would he, evon though ho were maligned or misrepresented. It was with great regret that he had referred to the matter, but ho was bound to do so. MR. HOGG IN REPLY. . "I do not ask for great consideration, and 1 don't know that I have ever received great consideration, either in tho Cabinet or anywhere else," Mr. Hogg replied. As regards the statement that.he, knew the policy of the Government beforo ho accepted the position- bo hold, and that that policy was explained, "Lot me tell members this: I don't know the policy of the Government now," said Mr. Hogg. "As far as I am aware that policy was never alluded to." ;. ... - '.....

The Prime Minister: That Is:not correct. Mr. Hogg explained hour late one afternoon he received a telegram from tho Prime Minister inviting him to come to Wellington. Ho did not know why ho was invited. He had. never asked for office, directly or indirectly. The Primo Minister naked him at his rosidonco if ho would accept a portfolio. Ho hesitated, and then suggested' Lands. Tho Prime Minister said he wanted to resorvo Lands for himself. Then ho accepted Roads and Bridges. "I had no explanation of'thb Governments policy. I can only put it down to some serious defect in .tho memory of tho - right lion, gentleman. .Members must judge between,myself, and-ihe: Prime Minister.. I am very/sorry tomnke this explanation, but I consider it is necessary I should speak thb truth, and'here I am where I am demanded to speak tho truth, and I must do : so. No explanation of policy "was • evcr ; tendered.' . " A Mysterious Land Policy. , for the Government's land policy,' I don't'know'what it is now. I.don't know that the'.Houso' knows it, • I don't know that the right hon. gentleman's colleagues: know it. : At all events it was never disclosed to me. I havo had great doubts about it, very serious doubts. I did not know that the Government was opposed to land aggregation. It- has been going on for years. My policy was woll.known, because I had been proclaiming it,overywhere. The. Prirab ..Minister could suroly. hot novo 'closed his eyes'to the voluminous ropdrts that appeared.of. speeches I delivered' in this district; I 'My-policy has been known for'years?' State. Note Issue ';,"'" ■Mr. Hogg said it was true that .ho had stated to,a deputation at Wanganui that inasmuch as a State currency : had been successfully established elsevhore ho did notsoe why an effort should not be, mado to establish it hero. It was quite true that the Premier remonstrated with him for that. "But.it was a statoment that did not in any way implicato tho Government, and did not embarrass thota in any degree." He'did not even suggest tor indicate that'the Government should' adopt State: currenoy. If the Government had never been in favour 6f monopoly, why was he excluded from .the Cabinet? Was it not on account of his views on the land question? He did not think the Premier could deny it. - Ho thought he had given, a sufficient refutation to tho wholo statement that had been made by _ the Premier from beginning to end; Members must judge-between the Prime Minister;,and himself. "It is a matter of credibility, but I am telling the honest truth as to what transpired." " v [y ,-'■■:■ 1 ,-.'. • THE PRIME, MINISTER SPEAKS AGAIN. The Prime Minister said ho did not want to prolong a very.painful necessity, but he was not going to, allow a wrong impression to-be conveyed. He could only Hay that Mr. Hoggs memory belied him. Mr. Hogg had .stated, and it was.' in print, that the land question had nothing whatever to do with his leaving the Ministry, so he-must agree with.his own statement if ho did not agree with tho one he (the Prime Minister) was making, which was in the same direction. He (Mr. Hogg) had never once brought,jap tho land question, or of paper currency. There had never been a word of dispute or quarrel, in the Cabinet concerning Mr. Hogg's views on the land question There was no difference o? opinion on that point, because they were carrying out the existing policy of the Administration. If ho savs he joined tho Ministry and did not know "what its policy wis on a given question, then he ought never to have joined tho Goveminent." He would not have alluded to the matter again except as a matter •of fairness to himself and colleagues in the positions.they held, and as a matter of duty to the country. MR. HOGG UNSATISFIED. Mr. Hogg said that, the Prime Minister had again misrepresented him. He repeated that he never knew what the Government policy was\ It had never been explained to him up to the present moment..

The Dreadnought Offer. It was a fabrication that he had expressed disapproval of- the Dreadnought -.offer, though, it might have appeared in print. Atthe- tamo time he was not a strong supporter of it. The reason ho had acquiesced in extraordinary proposal" was becauso' it was placed before him as-a matter-of great urgency, an occasion of terriblo crisis. It was represented that something mystorious and terriblo was going on in another part of the world, and they must come to the rescuo of the Old Country." *.'lu tho face of that, and tho Old Country being represented in terrible trouble, what was I to do? I could not object to it; I acquiesced, but I have nevor tried to get,rid of tho responsibility that I ttion. accopicrt." Mr. Hogg denied that he had asked for tho portfolio of roads and bridges. Ho did,not like to speak with such heat, but when he found words piit into his mouth ho had uevor uttered ho could only soy that they wer» totally inaccurate. THE FINAL ISSUE. • Sir Joseph Ward said that if Mr. Hogg told tho House and tho country that ho joined the Government. without knowing its policy he thought he need not say any more about it. If that was the cak he ought never- to have joined the Government, even on an invitation from himself.. ■'■ Mr. Hogg repeated that' the GoTerwnenFa policy wai not explained to aim.