THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 639, 16 October 1909, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

;j^|ADbl^SrlNil^PLY;;v.v^;v;^ 'DEBATE, ' ; ; ; '.,, The'.debate'Tdn'.the'- Address-in-Eeply'was'then resumed.■viV./v^Vii'M-'vvv•):••■' " ; -■■.'' 'v : ; .;'■ ( Mf.!>liANG.'ftianUkan).:expressed .the"■:hope that'. the'; Prim« Minister/would/fulfil his proltti4eftoj,allow:.thosHous«,,,an;':opportunity of, giving, •a. straight-out'.voto 'on: the land que?'.lioii:'- He stated that the .Government had been li-rM'-dn iho reputation of .the' Seddon • Gov.'ornment.S.lfofefnng' to deficiencies of , ; the rd.ilthat::the. ; heavy • freteKtichareee,; for -fruit, made HV difficult ':fohlhe';Frimley, orchards to;compete, with: the '•imported..article.; j He-: hoped' that .something. ;i would-fee; done, this session to remedy the-griev? .'inse,iin>reapeot of Native.lands.: He: blaimed AZealand-had.V:better;mail/-service ago/than it-had now.' There was teAV.days' loss of time/between-.Fiji and .Auck- : land.- : :'A'-. short time: ago a mer'ohant vessel ar-' ■'■rl«4];in'-.vA«oklMid'---Harb6tt'r--.]b*fore-Vtne--'mail '-. ste&iuer; 'and- had -to -wait; for "the '■'before • the '• merohants'.invoices could be secured. 'The -.old service -to ■London ; via'. San .Francisco. . ocoupied ,28 .days, and the present'-, service via •.Snezvrequired from' 37-'to,-lu,'day«.- , Mr.' Lang : als* stated, thatj.whllehe,was-in favour ,6f.the' tradeUtmioiab,' having,good '■- secretaries ''to -look . efter ; ,-their- interests,'the political - union cecretafy;: a;j>fofessional agitator, ought to be dono ..awaywith. :■:':.::-: .v.- ■ :?:.:', ■■■•-■■.■■.■• .-;■ iMiv-iELL/XChnstchurcli South).argued, that : the;'iCcoVernment.were nobresponsible'for the ; recent'', depression'and -unemployment; but that OS;< the ((contrary-'they had ;dono everything in thoirpawer to relieve the.position. There were pplitical ; agitat6rsbtt : the Opposition -'side.- Mr. : HMdman;;h«d,;made.;a;:'desperate : .attempt to /organise; a 'womon's -political ■ league, .but. it Had he succeeded he-would, on;-Hr,;LaDg's showing, been liable to be man-' .acledi-'and^imprisoned.; : Anotheri political agU ;,t(itor>had Ws office in the Parliamentary build-mg.,,He[did-'.-not knqw by what right:it was : done/or.why the Government permitted-it, but ■ th^;political,agent of; the Conservative party /had -an office'not far' from where' he was speak-it^'tW:-:::y^y;:i "■■■;; a -&. ■■] '■;■-'■ - ■'..-, :..;VMr.:Davey: Does lie.pay -'rent?—.-'.''~.-'"v ■'-'': - ;Jlr;''Ell:'l.want'tbknow:that from the Mini- - Btor: for and,'.if. to, 1 'shall-ask that:: the-agent: of the Liberal party shall bo ■ also''.found accommodation here,'--,.: .:,- : :.':;Mr;",'W.:rraser , ::lt.ouglit.to be 'in the : we-' ;• mieYsroom. '. - ; -;-.-. , .ji-".- i -v ; /-'-; y:;V:: '-''■ ' /; ;Mr. Ell:; Woli;'Mr, Martin is" in Mr; Mnssey's room,.and:hisrtolophorie number, is marked up at tieihbtel .Buildings." .-^■''' : . : - : .^~>»i*' v -;- 1 ' '.''-I-.. ;'•.'•.:. : : ',^i-!;> i: -:;NEEDAFOR..-R/tnENCHMENT. ; .

; >lrS Jv C. THOMSON: (V» allace) said it was generally recognised insido:. and outiide Parliament . that, the dobato: on'-.the '■ Address-in-E'eply. ; was,largely, a .wasto. of'time, and ho believed .that "-.the'constituencies .would', not judge,; their,, members ..bj;/what they .said, so DiUbhi-.iis: by. the ■ way in which they voted wheavmeasures came before the House; Ho' do-, fehdedytho administration of the Government, Milte.its. conduct in '■': regard 'to retfenchment. 'He-believed. that'; retrenchment 'was necessary, and;the Government .need iiaVo do fear, for the/people'wore with thoni in this matter The pinning T knifo might'be.also -used in : the of.floe's^outside;New.Zealand; '.'largo>sums Were beih|ipaid liv connection-With tho High .Com.mißiionerV office,!which he thought "couid be put.'|b''.. fat! greater'Use',in■ New' Zealand, ! and there jwefe' Departments in this country which .wWe.; not .returning- value for .'the: money '■ ex-. : peiMed;'on'thenK iAVarmrappreciationwaa ex-pressed-.by Air.' Thomson ;fqr' the' work of, the Geological/Suryey Department.' [''/'. Theiwork which -lias been commenced and carried out by Dr."Ball," he said;,".is of the' greatest -value

to New Zealand." He had hoard a rumour that there.was a' possibility of theso surveys, being Stopped, but ho sincerely hoped that the nir mour was not true. This country Was. not spending, by many thousands, so much as;was spent by tho Dominion and Provincial Governments of Speaking on the timber industry, Mr. Thomson urged that the Government should endeavour to enter into a reciprocal treaty with tho Commonwealth Government so : that Now Zealand might, export red and whito birch and recoive something from Australia in return. On the land question, Mr. Thomson said he thought tho chief fight would be upon the question whether thero should.he national endowments like the endowments for harbour boards, athenaeums, and ,education.: He would be quite willing to see tho 99!), years' leasehold swept away. Out of-its large national properties tho Stato should set aside'endowments. for the aged and infirm. The jfreohold, with limitation of areas, was among the aspirations of the young New Zealondor.'f; - •',:'- '■-.-■'•.-:. ~..•• : W ;: Nirji.;WRIGHT'S SPEECH. - Mr. JR.-A. WRIGHT, who was the first speaker in the . evening, protested vigorously against the parrot-like cry "Conservative," applied to thcißeform party. Was the Minister tor' Native Affairs, who had been associated with Sir Harry- Atkinson, a Conservative? Was tho Minister for. Agriculture a Conservative or a Liberal, and if ,he was a Liberal, how, did he become one? The vague retort "misrepresentation" also come in for his condemnation, "So far as I am concerned, if it means my. political death, I am going to soy what is truo as far ,as I know it, and if, I say-what is not true, and it is pointed out to me, I shall correct it every time. But wo are not to have our mouths, closed on the plea' that we say something unpleasant or unpalatable, or. that it is going -to do harm to somo party,' or even to the country. I don't believe in doing evil that good may come." Speaking of high values, Mr. Wright quoted a case . in- which Mr. - Ames, Government Valuer, stated in Court that he had altered his original valuation because tho Department instructed him that the value was too low, and ho had to raise it.. The fair deduction was that that was only Ono of many cases. Tho increase in land valuations had ■ been largely'responsible for what happened in Wel-lington-last winter. '■'; At;tho same time, regarding the/ depression, he: had always said that the colony wis all right, and ho did not believe that any member of tho Opposition had said anything to injure the credit of the colony,,. Mr, .Wright, went into tho stories of the NaiNai swamp,, tho irregularities of the Hutt licensing poll, and other questions. The Nai Nai Estate, he said, was purchased, by the Government, ostensibly for workers' homes,, at JBISO an aero, from,a man who, just before, had,paid;,£io an acre for the land. It was the Government,through a well-known Wellington: firm, hot -disassociated: from the Legislature, at a profit of/,.£11,000. -The Government ,:had :sinco' spent money on improvements -:to .the land,. which 'was now lying useless, and the Government would be lucky to get'.£3o an acre for it. An inquiry fshould be set np to find out how this land camo to be hoisted on the shoulders of the State.- Mr. Wright mentioned,a case in which two boys passed tho Civil Service examination. One of them was told that ho could hot he appointed : .to, the service because, on' December' 1, he was under the required ago.' The other, who .was seven months younger still, was appointed to. a position.'.

Hutt Licensing Poll. ' ; : ;' ....'"..; ..Matters, in connection ..with the Hntt licensmgpoll wero referred to in detail, by, Mr. Wright, who-stated it was curious'that the Court of Inquiry which examined tho charges' had, onat least two occasions, ruled one way at Hutt and the, other way at Masterton, both decisions.being in favour of one side. The conduct of the poll was a v gross-scandal, and tho returning officer who was responsible was unfit for tho' position, "and; 6houhf seek somo othor .means of, livelihood; The law should bo amended so.that.in case of a local option poll appeal irregularities antecedent to tho poll could be inquired into,, and he was coming to the opinion that such appeals should:bo,made to the Supremo' Court, as was the case with electoral appeals;.instead .of. to a magisterial court. . Mr.. Wright also referred, to the grievance of the; Farmers' Co-operative Distributing Company against the State ..Coal" Department. Now-that ;.tho State v had gbne into- so many lines'of .bnsiness.-'tho, law should bo altered S3 ns to give everyone the right to: proceed against tho Crown when the Crown was doing anything',to-damage, property. An alteration of.the electoral.systom wasialso urged; to duco _ the present restrictions lipoh :Cnudidates ■ Provision should ;bo made-so that the results of licensing polls could be given finally tho first time. '■'. ■■. '-~'• i- ...--; -

Sir Joseph Ward-; said.'thatif Mr. Wright would give him the. names '■ of, the' two civil seme*, candidates .he would inquiries made.. Ho did not.believe' that any Ministry' would show favouritism in such a case, "- that if 'the' Government was its'administration properly-it would havo very little opposition from at-the present timo'its : conduct/of affairs'was not of such a kind that ho could support it. • - : -.v..""*. ';•' ;MR.-WItFORD'S ; REMARKBi '■"■'. ' ' \&iEW^' m Wi** "P the P«W««»» that tho land was not the only national asset whioh.it was 'necessary to; improves He enlarged eloquently on' the causes of. Maori mor. tality: as set forth in an annual report bf Dr, Pomare. -Among-the.European population the birth-rate was still-very nigh. Mr. Wilford diverged into considerations of what-is . civilisation/- and observed' that after all this life Mr. Wilford defended the Government from responsibility for. the recent depression. While ho did not believe in borrowing for uhreproductive works,'he did believe in borrowing for the Advances .to 1 Settlers Office,'-.-and--he- believed it was the .duty of the State to -get money to lend through that office as long as the.omea was as. careful'in"; the future'as'it had been in,the past. .Speaking on-the land question, he said that he had always been a believer in: the: freehold.' "The incentive 1 to industry and thrift.is the incentive that' some day you .may have a little piece of your own ,to leave to those -that odme after jou. You .may say that. it. is only .'Sentiment, but Sentiment is 'oiio -of .the' noblest' ftiotive powers." The- Native lands.;, should'.; be administered -as European lands were administered, provision beingimade. that the Natives should never bo absolutely landless.. Mr. Wilford defended the action.'.of the ".Government-in. connection-.with ;the acquisition of the" Nai: Nat. Estate, Ho added that he. was fool enough to buy land in the same district at ,£IOOO per acre, ' '.'I have still got it," he added, "and I'am still'paying interest." .Referring to: the Crown Suits Act, Uv'.- Wilford- said it should .undoubtedly be altered. ; ThefcircumstanceS. in connection with the.Barton case and the Distributing Company's oas9. were, different. : In regard-to the former case the'. Government-had taken -up* the position that the State coal .wagon Which' injured Barton was not "a public .work," ■whilst, in;-regard to,the latter case the Govern.ment 'intimated that it could not':-say. .that what, was complained about .'was not/a -'-'public work,", and the case was ..heard, /It seemed* under the ■ Act: that if a State', coal wagon, which was net contemplated when the. Act was passed, killed .every,.member—and he did not know! that it would bo a bad thing-(laughter) ,-robjcction. .would be 'taken 'by the.Depart-, ment to action being'broughf'against, it. Although Barton was insured, under.: the Workers' Compensation for.Accidents.Aot, he-agreed to bring the.matter before.: the .Court, at. taoueh ;he. was'• advised that he./would: be blocked.; A wagon of the ikind :in Question ■ ought. to' be considered as mflch &;■ "public work" ad the other, premises belonging to the concern.. .;; . ..' '■,'-. ■•■' .'-.' Mr. 'HOGG (Masterton) referred to: the largeamount of idle land and unemployed labourwhich existed in New Zealand...Other remarks made by Mr. Hogg.are reported elsewhere. '-.' ': GUTTER MOISTURE CASES. '•■■The'' Hon. T. MACKENZIE confined his remarks'principally to the dairying ' industry, I and especially the moisture content prosecu-. tions. ■ He said, amid a series of interruptions; that if the whole of tests throughout i'the Dominion were, taken since 1902-03 it would bo-found'that intentional ■ pumping; of water into butter had taken placo.v If the Department was, to blame at all in connection with V:'the ■'prosecutions, iit was inasmuch as that they had erred, on the ' side .of leniency. The Department had only wished to obtain a verdict in order to draw attention to the law. Tho reason why. tho Department had in the first place agreed to withdraw-the charges was, so he had been informed, because the.association, desired .that, that should bo dono as publicity had been given to the matter and it was willing to pay, the costs. The unfortunate point was that immediately upon the magistrate declining to allow tho charges to bo withdrawn the dofenco had made it appear that they had been no party to tho request.: He (tho Minister) had then told tho solicitor for the Department to go on, but not to push for n heavy fine. While he was: Minister for Agriculture he would not allow'any section of the community to.j allow produce to _g0 from tho Dominion which wOuld seriously affect the whole industry. It was possible thatHhe sample might have been; interfered with',:' ":'.,.',■ Mr. PoOlo: Will you seo that better.methods of taking samples aro adopted?, ~ ,: : ■:,. . Tho Minister's! will. -,;. -~..::', ■..' , :...' ■ Upon the motion of Mr. Scott the debate was adjourned, and the House agreed to meet again onTuesday afternoon, ...