THE PRESBYTERY AND THE UNEMPLOYED.

Dominion, Volume 2, Issue 559, 14 July 1909, Page 10

THE PRESBYTERY AND THE UNEMPLOYED.

COLLECTIONS TO BE TAKEN. DR. GIBB ON "WILD AND WHIELING WORDS." THE CLAIMS OF LABOUR LEADERS. At the meeting of the Wellington Presbytery yesterday/"the' Rev. Dr. Gibb moved tho following motion: — "While disclaiming all sympathy with the spirit displayed Dy a certain section of t)bo unemployed, and deploring tho folly 'of tho claims made by some of their leaders—claims which if agreed to i would', probably result in at least a proportion of tho unemployed men ' and their [families being left to starve—the Presbytery recognising the existence of widespread distress, and realising that it is ,tho duty of all Christian men to minister to tho utmost of their ability to all v human need, recommend that a collection in aid of tho unemployed fund be taken up in the congregations within the bounds at tho earliest possible date." k , Dr. Clbb Speaks out. The mover said it seemed to him desirable that the Presbytery—and it was inevitable that ho personally—should take exception of tho most decided and emphatic sort to ,tho wild "and whirling speech which was being indulged in by a certain section of the unemployed and-to the guidance they were receiving from' some, of their so-called leaders—save" the mark! ■Hβ had been present at a meeting called by tho Mayor, 'at whioh this question was first ventilated, and tho statements made there— "( he 'was/inot referring to the treatment ho had personally received from certain "hoodlums" who were, present—but tho statements made, ill one instance by a momber of Parliament, who was supposed to be a groat authority among tto .working community; had tilled him with amazement— truckling to ba>so things, playing to the gallery—in. a ll his 1 long experience ho had not ' witnessed such behaviour _ before. Ho had eaid to tho Mayor, while the meeting was in progress that these utterances .ivore best calculated to dry up the springs of generosity and cancel tho sympathy of tho citizens towards those out of employment. He thought tnat tho result had 'shown the accuracy 'of his diagnosis. Money 'was'not coming in as it was expected to do. < Though the need was as great as ever it had ,been, ho supposed, in Wellington, money was ' not coming in nearly so well, he believed, as when th© last pressure of tho kind was experienced, fhe reason was obvious to them all, and ho felt that whatever tho Presbytery might do with the first part of the resolution it was his duty to givo expression to the sentiments ho had uttered. I Churches must Help. j ßut whilo they wero, not only justified in , disclaiming, but were under a certain necessity to disclaim, all sympathy with tho kind of language he had referred .to, ho felt that it was not, only desirable, hut even necessary that they should rise superior to those considerations in regard to their action, aad that they should do their best to improve a condition of things which was for many' men • and women in this city most distressful. Hβ camo into contact 'himself with a good deal of real downright-distress, and it was not tho people who were begging'and clamouring at their doors who were really necessitous —a great many of'those who ,'made application in that way were'worthless as well as workless, and would not thank> anyone who gave them work —but outside of them there were a greart many who were in dire, necessity. Not-' withstanding the sneers at,tho Mayor's meeting in regard to-tho churches and their collections, the ■ churches ' should do their best' ,to help to meet this situation. A collection had already been takon up in ono of their congregationSj and he had ,-- received a note from one of /their.'home miss sion stations stating that a collection was to be made. Kent Terrace had resolved to take up a collection, and retiring collections would be taken at St. John's next Sunday \ morning and evening. He did not doubt that the response of all tho congregations would .be hearty and 'generous, and 'he hoped that the Presbytory would adopt tho motion, and that the brethren would see that it was given effect to at tne earliest possible moment. The Motion Seconded. Tho Rev. J. Kennedy Elliott seconded the motion. Perhaps ihe first part of it, as Dr. Gibb had not seemed 'strongly attached to I 'that, might be left out. sought : by it had been already gained by ■ , the reading of ths motion, and Dr. i Gibb's remarks, with which ho entirely concurred. IfrDr. Gibb wished to put the first I part of the motion, ho would support it, I though he thought it woujd be better left , out. They resented "very ( much the treatment to which Dr. Gibb, as a minister ,of a laige church, Moderator of the Presbytery, and the representative of Presbyterianism at the 1 meeting, had received. Hβ thought it was detestable,'and,ho feared that it marked just tho feeling 'that \was growing up in tho minds of many people. Ministers were the ~ last who would look for anything like servility from the people, but they need not be treated irith uncivihty. Parson-baiting, however, was a very favourite amuseraeut with some ignorant people, and they should overlook tho matter. The Cry for Full hi ages. He did not know that the relief fund was being administered as he would like to see it. The result of paying men tho full rate of wages might be to fill up Wellington with unemployed from other'parts.' His idea would bo that tho men should not receive full wages, but that there should be an, incentive for them to get better'work., Suppose they were given ss. a day,' and if they did not like it they could gc elsewhere! If it was knovn that the full'rate was being paid on relief works, ho" knew from cases that had come within his own experience ihat there would bo peoplo coming here from a distance; the whole poor of tho country would bo rushing into AVellington. Dr. Gibb said that this very point was dealt with by tho first clause of his motion. To insist,on tho full market rate of wages in tho present eiigencies would mean, probably, ' that a certain proportion of tbe men must 1 ho left to starve. Proposed-Modification of .Motion. The Rev. A. Thomson (Petone) thought it would bo a great pity if tho motion was allowed to go before'the public. They were asked to holp those in need, and the preamble of, the motion virtually raised matter that would cause differences of opinion r nnd discussion. He thought it would bo wiso if Dr. Gibb withdrew the' first part of.the motion. Probably ho was quite justified'in taking up that attjtude, but he thought it would bo a great mistake for tho -Presbytery to pledge itself to the views expressed. The Rev. A. T. Thompson (Masterton) was of the same opinion. Possibly the first part of the motion might hurt somo of the unemployed, who had not expressed themselves in tho way certain of their leaders had done. They'might alter tho motion to read: "while regretting the spirit displayed." Dr. Gibb-; I'll take that. The Rev. A. Thomson (petone): No; I'll not take-that. The Rov. A. T. Thompson (Masterton) said ho thought tho motion would havo tho sympathy of all the congregations. He supposed that it would apply to the country > charges,'and that tho amounts raised by them would bo sent to Wellington. Dr. Gibb: Oh, rather. Tho Rev. A. Thomson (Petone): Excepting any,districts where we are doing something' else. The Rev. A. T. Thompson said they all regretted the treatment which Dr. Gibb received at the meeting. Sneers at the churches' assistance were particularly un- • called for. since their church people were alwavs putting theirhands in their pockets, Tho Rov. J. M'Caw thought .that' tho, first part of the motion should bo deleted. If they' entered into the position of the unemployed they would bo careful not to say anything that would hurt any of them. Dr. Gibb: I think it is tho business of tho Presbytery to speak plainly__ about abuses ami follies. Tho Rev. J. M'Caw suggested that when I t . ■■•

peoplo wero distressed they often talked wildly. Ho belioved that tho ideas that had been promulgated were entirely nt varianco with tho best means of sotting the present trouble right. ■ ' Dr. Clbb in Reply. Di\ Gibb'said He had indicated from tho first that ho was willing to drop tho first part of the motion. 'It was to him a very significant thing that it was not working mon themselves who were tho first -to utter what ho had called wild and whirling words, and turn tho meeting into ,a bear garden, but one of their alleged leaders, a member of Parliament, of whom ho had never heard that ho had need of help from tho unemployed fund, or any other fund of tho kind, and he would ask Mr. M'Caw to bear that in,mind. As snowing th»t tho assistance which tho churches could givo was not insignificant, he believed that St. John's congregation alono raised half tho money sent From Wellington and Potono to tho recent British Bread Fund, and of tho Otago contributions to that fund — and most of ~ tho New Zealand collection camo from Otago—a very large i proportion was contributed by tho Presby--1 terian Churches. Ho had not the slightest I doubt that the churches would repeat their previous practice., Ono of his reasons for tho first the motion was that on tho previous day, ae a member of tho Unemployed Fund Coramitteo, he had sought to enlist the sympathies of a gentleman in tho city who was in a position to help tho fund well and liberally, and before ho ceuld make any impression on that gentleman ho had to make it perfectly clear that he was not in sympathy with'tho kind of language that had'been used, and tho attitndo of somo-of the men's leaders. He thought it might be a possible incentive to liberality if it was known .that tho Presbytery was taking a sane view of tho question, and was prepared to deaHustly not only with the poor man, but with every class of citizen. •; : Further Discussion. , The Rev. J. Paterson thought it was more dignified to crxb out tho first part of tho mo-, tion, and not to take notice of tho remarks of "hoodlums." ••-.•' "\ The Rev. W. J. Comrie thought that in the case of country collections it should bo left to tho local people to put their own collections to relief of local needs, if such existed. . Dr. Gibb said that the motion was to give the money to tho unemployed fund,, and ho only knew of tho fund in Wellington. With regard to tho suggestion that Wellington would be deluged with tho unemployed from other parts who would come We ■ for the relief works, Mr. Comrio pointed out that tho present proposals were 'only to give tho men work week about. As it was now mid-winter, the men's time would be broken besides. Some of the bushfellera might'make a good thing out of it, but the unemployed wonld not make a good thing of the relief works hero.

V The', motion was 'unanimously adopted, l .shorn of its first clause, and with the substitution '■■ of the word /for "enjoins." .The last amendment 'was made on tho ■suggestion' of . the- Rev. 'J. Gibson ; Smith;z;/-3:<///:. -'-y< ."■-• "■'.^■f;.v'' : ■ /'•''