THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 2, Issue 535, 16 June 1909, Page 4

THE HOUSE.

'i FlNANClill POSITION DISCUSSED. e oef'enc'e system. '-feOME IMPORTANT SPEECHES. . Tho House met yesterday at 10.30 a.m. .-■'llio-NationalvSick ana insurance Bill passed, its first reading. . t Tho Johnsonvillo Lighting' Empowering Bill was dropped. — LOCAL-BODIES' LOANS. Mr 1 E TAYLOR (Chrißtchurch North) . asked the Colonial Treasurer whether it was not possiblo for him to facilitate some of tho financial transactions ■ which local bodies wero endeavouring to arrange. 'Ill':-Christ*' church, and district, a number of. .the local bodies vwcre' ijuito -,'Unable, . owing to , ' the the money market, to get off small leans.-, that had been authorised by "ratepayers, and if tho Government could J mako '-'arrangements for temporary advances on. thes& lpans, it. would assist the unem■p]o£edl trouble.- - Mr.» Taylor instanced the Hoat'hcoto''Koad' -Board among the local bodios in this position. Tbe i Prime Minister would realise that local bodies wero having a rough time just now, and ho urged that policy to carry out works that liad'-been"carefully''considered, and author-ia®-'by- than to rush into temporary works with 4 the money, of the colony. :> vr' .. ~ . . Mr. LATJRENSON (Lyttolton), as the member representing tho . Heathcote Road : Board, said , ho had already made arrange- . ments with the Treasury in connection with the-loans' it was" raising, and it was hoped 'tfiiitf/iii~a '.rcry;'ihdft.*'linie, there'would be sufficient work'undertaken to employ, a very largo number of men. , Tho PRIME MINISTER said ho fylly recognised tho very,'-great importanco of , money .being obtained,for tho local bodies to onablo them to carry on public works, and ho had already mentioned that ho,intended, when in London, to arrange for tho flotation of these local bodies' loans, at a low rato of interest. ;:Tho machinery of tho Hijjh Commissioner's; offico would bo used ■ for that purpbße. , By-representations to the financial authorities in - tho Old Country, :thoyshould bo ableHpjgot most of.tbo monoy •* needed'by-local-bodiesi -provided those bodies showed that, they had tho proper security. . iHo :h'ad ', already, - during tho last month or i two/ made' representations to ,th<> financial | institutions at Homo, but they wero bo far i.aw;9y,- that,.:.excep.t-Titt eases ofrlaige miiniaj.

pal or harbour loans, they wore not convorsant with tho system in this country. That was ono direction in which ho hoped to be able to do good work at Home. Ho fully recognised tho trcmcndouß importance of tho matter, which would bo given tho closest attention. THE PUBLIC INDEBTEDNESS.

Tho PRIME MINISTER replied to Mr. rlerdman's question. ; with regard to tho tables, including tho table of. public., indebtedness, which Tie wanted attached 'to his financial memorandum. It -was not possible at present to -have tho latter table attached, bocauso certain information with regard to the loan was not yet to hand. Aa soon as: tho information was available it would bo printed and circulated. Meanwhile ho could givs an aggregate which ought to bo sufficient to show members what the alteration in tho public indebtedness was. At tho ond of'tho financial year, it stood at £70,938,534. At tho end of the previous year it stood at £66,453,897, or an increase during, the year of £4,484,637... .The increase was made up as.follows

_ 1 The Primo Minister urged that though the increase •of the loan was brger than usual' owing to' the purchase of the Manawatu railway, the greater 'part of it was directly in-terest-bearing," .. . ' ... Mr. HERMES asked if the table that should have been attached to. the memorandum could be circularised among members during the recess. ; The' Prime Minister replied fiat it would be circularised as soon as the information required was obtainable.' )Mr. J. ALLEN said there were a large number \ of returns dealing with finance, which would ordinarily come'down within the first ten days of the session,' but which they could not possibly get at present. These oughtto be available for members before the Prune Minister came back. , : Sir' Joseph Ward: All that I can do,I will do withjileasuro. . / Mr. HRASER asked that members be provided'with, particulars of all the loans lately redeemed, or renewed, or lately issued. - ; The Prime Minister promised that this would be done next session. He also corrected a slight error in the memorandum read by Him tho previous night, where, in tho jiart dealing with , provision for tho . reoess, the available ways arid means, were shown at £4,254;000, whereas the amount should have been £-1,287,163. • INFORMAL CONFERENCE.; The PRIME-MINISTER moved. that the report of the informal meeting | of members should be recorded in the . journals of the House; and issued as a. supplement to Hansard, • and as a-separate" number. In reply . 'to : Mr. Massey, he stated that the informal nature of the meeting would be clearly sot ' forth. : v,x. : '. ■ Themotion.'was. carried with the substitution of 'the .word '.'' appendices " for ''journals." •. ' •,.. AN APPROPRIATIONS BILL OR NOT? : Mr, MASSEY'referred to the point oif order he had raised as to whether, the Finance, Bill, was" not an Appropriations Bill. '■ The SPEAKER said that, ho had looked into .the matter -and ; found there was a precedent in 1897 for' : the course taken by the Prime Minister.; ,Tho. Bill, brought down, on tliat, occasion was- ta vory' mucli' the same lines as the' present Bill, which, in;his opinion, 'did not ..make 'any now-.appropriations, ■ hut simply extended'the appropriations made by the Bill of last session.. Mr. Massey said 'that ho accepted the ruling, but he asked the Speaker to look into the matter-again, because he was afraid of establishing another awkward precedent like that apparently established in 1897. He was afraid that in these Bhort and; informal sessions members: were asked to. approve of presents that ! would .be v4ry awkward; in years to come. .:/ Mr. ALLEN 'thought that, if. the precedent of 1897, was. wrong,' as he believed,,tne House should get back upon right, lines., i The SPEAKER said .that he. would :look into the matter, again. The ear]ier precedent had not been challenged by Sir Robert Stout, who . was in the House at tho time, and took as many objections as he thought'possible to tako. - MR. MASSEY ON THE FINANCES. GOVERNMENT PROPOSALS VIGOR- ; OUSLY CRITICISED. ,

Mr. MASSEY said, that on tho previous day he. had intimated his intention to movo an amendment in regard to defence matters. Tho timo was not opportune- then, and he had intended to move it on the second reading of tho. Bill, but . the Prime Minister had been, good'enough to inform'liim that an opportunity would be given him later,thiß session.l : ', p ; , \' ' Mr. Massey said that there' were, certain proposals -contained' in the I'inanoe "Bill to which he' had very strong ,objection, and 1 which ho intended to oppose . whon they reached tho committee stage. It ,\VM impossible : under existing circumstances to, do without loaii money 1 . The statement of liabilities that had been laid before Parliament would show that to bo tho case. Apart from that, the' policy of ; the Government for a number of years had ma do it impossible for them to do without borrowing, and borrowing very extensively, unless they desired to accentuate the present financial stringency. the Loan Proposals. Ho hbped that members would not run away vita' tho. idea that it was only intended to' borrow a'.million and-a quarter. Ulause 9 provided ior'ilie raising of £75,000 for certain purposes, which had to be added to £1,250,01)0, referred to in the earlier portion of the Bill. -Tne House further had passed throe or four years ago a general: loan, which provided that in addition to the amount specifically mentioned in any Loan Bill, there should bo added all tho costs and oharges in connection therewith. With a loan of £J.,325,000, this meant an inoreaso to something like £1,400,U00. Tho-Government had not treated tho House fairly in tho matter. They had been called "together at a moment's notice and aslicd to discuss a most important matter-without having been given the necessary information to discuss it properly. They had not evon'been given the tabid showing tho public indebtedness. . . Sir-, J...Ward: Because it. was. impossible to give it. - Mr, Massey! .1 hold . the opinion that it could be dono. Continuing, l he referred to Clause 3, -which proposed to,extend appropriations up to October 14. They. had. been given to understand that Parliament was to meet in Sop torn bor, andtho propor -thing-to have dono was to bring down an Imprest Supply - Bill. • By tho present course they were-actually-making it unnecessary for tho Government to call Parliament together before the middle of October. It seemed to him that many members wore not impressed with tho neoessity of keeping a proper control upon the purse-strings. They wore gradually giving up tho control which thoy possessed, and they- were not doing right. Rather than agree to somo _ proposals being submitted to Parliament this session—somo of them in tho Finance Bill—he would walk" out ;of Parliament.'. It ' was proposed to cxtond' tho.' amount - of £160,000 which was ■■ allowed- to bo expended for "unauthorised" to £200,000. This meant that they woro: asked to givo iho Government a'free hand—a blank eliequo for a very largo sum of monoy, and allow thorn to do exactly ns they lilted with it, without any control on the part of Parliament until it mot next sossion. Tho snmo thing applied to the allocation for' railways, whero they wero naked, without any, rcuon beuig givcu,

to increase the amount of "unauthorised" from £100,000 to £150,000. Referring to Clause 8, which deals with moneys raised being credited to the Public Works Fund, and applied for works and purposes scheduled, he stated that tho clauso was complicated and difficult to understand. He gathered that it was intended to give tie Government power to start now works during tho reoess. Tho Primo Minister: Reads, but not railways. 1 Air. Massoy: If you are able to start ocal .works, why not railways? However, I liopo tho matter will bo made clear in committee. A Dangerous Precedent. Continuing, Mr. Massey said that the Bill would establish a most dangerous precedent. Thoy wore asked to give away tho control of their purse-strings to Ministers of tho Crown. Tho Prime Minister himself would bo away, but his colleagues, during his ab6ence, could start any works that they liked. Probably when Parliament met agam they would find that most of the money authorised had been expended. He doubted if the clauso would bear tho interpretation put upon it by tho Prime Minister, for in the first proviso it referred to specific roads and bridges. : The Prime Minister: That is, existing ones, for the existing appropriations.' Mr. Massey: Then where is the provision regarding new ones? ,The estimates should havo been sent up to Parliament and dealt with in the ordinary way. "If"you act without estimates you might just as well hand over the whole of the control of tho expenditure to the Ministers, and let us go home," he continued, "and lot them run the country in their own way. If wo let them have sufficient rope it will not take long for them to hang themselves, and it will bo a most interesting process:" The Bill opened up the wliolo question of administration, and might profitably be considered for a week, He realised that at this juncture administration was moro important than legislation, but still a certain amount of legislation was necessary iii the interests of tho country.

Unsatisfactory Finances. He regretted that tho finances of iio Dominion were in an unsatisfactory state. Tho Prime Minister had shown a surplus .of £184,321, but there were liabilities of £287,132. If members, would look at the appropriation account, they would see that there was an unexpended balance ,of £200,000. This simply meant that if tho money that was appropriated by Parliament from the Consolidated Fund had been expended, there .would have been no surplus. The Prime Minister:'lt never can bo all expended... , Mr. Masscy: You could have expended a great deal more of it than has_ been spent. "'he Primo Minister: That is not so. Were Salaries Held Over?/ •■■Mr. Maspey, said that public servants had come to him and informed him ;that; their .salaries had. been, held over the end of the financial .year in' order, presumably,, to,.swell tho surplus. Tho Prime Minister: Whoever made that statement is a gross pervertor of tho truth. Mr. Massej stated that he. had the .stater ment from more than one official, and so, he ventured to say, had other members. The Prime Minister: Well, it is absolutely contrary to fact. Mr. Massoy continued that the Government had not made sufficient provision for .a rainy day. : From his place in the House ho had warned them time after time, but they had never looked forward to a period of depression. They had continued to spend and squander, and they wore still spending and squandering, though, not to the same extent. Now that a serious position. had ; arisen, the Government, instead of facing it, -were, showing a;" disposition to' run away from it._ The membors -of'-tho .Government were shirking their duty, and ho was sorry to. say, that a majority; of membors of tho HOll3O was helping them,to : shirk their duty by> saying- that the hnsiijess of Parliament should- bo suspended for three or four months on account of the fact that tho Prime Minister was going Homo. ■ ; Loan Renewals, . , \ The Primo Minister took credit to the fact tliat ho had renewed a number of loans without'increasing the rate of interest. He (Mr. Massoy) presumed that many of those were short-dated' loans. ''He always understood that whon t'.'.oy raised loans by way of shortdated debentures, it was because money was abnormally dear, or there yra-s some * reason why they could not go on tho London money market; but it was always understood, too, that when tho short-dated debentures matured they would bo converted into inscribed stock. He-did not say that that was nover done, but/it was seldom done, and in consequence: theso short-dated loans had, piled up to a tremendous extent, and though he could not speak with authority, he felt absolutely-certain-that'they must bo very ' seriously handicapping and embarrassing the Government's finance. Ho hoped that ho attempt would bo mado to raiso the present loan by way of short-dated debentures,: because the more money floated in that way. tho greater would bo the. difficulty of tho Dominion. Every time tho loans matured and had to bo renewed, even if the rato of■ interest, was not increased; thero was very seriousr'/additional expenso to the taxpayers. In the last financial year; there Were■ loans amounting to £1,202,000 converted into inscribed stock, and tho admitted cost, of those transactions was £3G,'925, which, with another' item of £8451, meant that between £40,000' and £50,000 had been added to the Publio Debt, for which the Dominion had not; bonefited to the extent of a single shilling. ;If .those wero legitimate methods' of' finance, it' was no wonder, tho Dominion had a -linge Publio Debt, and,a.debt for part of which no. valuo had been rccoived. v 1; Increaso of Expenditure. • The Prime Minister .had .boasted at' In., vorcargiir of the increase of revenue by £1,416,626, but he forgot to tell his audience that during tho poriod of his administration the expenditure had increased by £1,663,173 —in other words,' that during that period thore was an incrcaso of expenditure over revenue, of nearly'£2so,ooo./ It was somewhat significant that that was just the sum wjiich the Prime Minister proposed to save by his retrenchment scheme in. connection with the publio service. ; Sir Joseph Ward: Wo gave £600,000 a year in concessions. Mr. Massey: I have heard that, old; story before. . 1 ,i. ;■ Sir Joseph Ward:,lt is a fact. Mr, Ma§Soy: I am speaking of tha administration of tho publio business of the country, and I think the right hon. gentleman will find that my figures are absolutely correct. Sir Joseph Ward: I don't dispute them. With . regard to the Civil Service, Mr. Massey said that what had been done recently in tho way of retrenchment. seemed to him to be of a purely temporary/character. As soon as the present difficulty was got over, and the country recovored, thero was nothing to prevent wiioevor happened to be on the Treasury benches at the time—possibly in a few years—from a"aiti going in for the extravagant practices which had characterised the present Administration. Ho thought they ought to go a great deal further in connection with the public -urvice than anything that had yot been proposed from the Treasury benohes. That .was a matter which could' have been dealt with this session, and that was why ho opposed the adjournment.

Financial Stringency. In regard to the financial istringency, he said tlio trouble seemed' to ba tljat there was not sufficient money in tlio country for the requirements of tho people doing business here, for the farmers and: manufacturers and merchants, leaving tho Government out of the question. He thought that at Invorcargili tho other day vtho Premier said the colouy was under-banked. He (Mr. Masseyj did not know whether over-banking would mako any diflcrenco, but he did say this, that they ought to oncouragq in' every- way where possiblo tho introduction of capital. (Hear, hear.)! Ho was ( rather surprised to find the Prime Minister admitting 111 ono of his spcfohea that during tho period of tho present Administration a number of financial companies had taken their capital out of the country. Ho referred to tho Northorri Coir, puny, 'tho North British, the New Zealand Trust and Loan, the New Zealand and River Plate Company, and the Otagd and Southland Investment Company. He (Mr. Masaoy) did not kiiow what tho aggregate capital

of those companies would be, but it must 1 bo something vory considerable, and lie I thought if wo had that capital hero at the > present moment it would do a very great < deal to relieve tho existing, financial difficulty. Thoy had heard over and over again ' that tho Advances to Settlers Department had reduccd the rate of interest. Tho Department was doing a big business, and ho thought there was not a membor in the House who did not know'that the rato of interest was higher than it had been at any timo fer the last, fifteen years., The Primo Minister: Nonsense. , Mr. Massey: It is an absolute fact. Tho Primo Mi 'ister: The Advances to Settlers Departmont has not raised its rato of interest. ■ Mr. Massoy: For months past Departmental loans have been limited to £500. Tho Primo Minister: Wo paid out £1,800,000. • ; Mr. Massoy: I admit that, but tho loans at present are limited to £500, and oven then people are kopt waiting for their money for months after they harvo been informed that their applications have been granted. Thoy had got into this extraordinary position, a position that did not obtain in any other country in the world, that loans wero obtainable from private sources at up to 6 per cent, wlien tho amount was not large, but the difficulty came in when amounts of, say, £6000 and over were requirod—tho larger tho sum required tho higher tho rate of interest asked. This difficulty the Advances to Settlers Department could not meet. There was no Advances to Settlers Department in Australia, but there money was at present much cheaper than in Now Zealand. Exodus of Settlers. However, there was another reason for tho stringency ,of tho money market. A number of our very best settlers had taken advantage of the good prices offering for land until very recently, and had sold out, packed uj>, and taken their capital. to other countries. Mr. Massey here road an interview published'in The Dominion with a Wairarapa man who had been to Queensland, and wno said that ho knew twenty Now Zealandors with a total capital of £150,000, who had £one to that State. ~ Thb Primo Minister: What is tho value of Queensland land a? compared with ours ? Mr. Massey maintained that some of tho very best of our ppople were leaving New Zealand, and thoy wcro tho poople who had given employment in past years. Was it any wonder that there was a scarcity of employment? - Tho Land Question. Nothing had done more to create a depression than, the wretched Land Bill of two years ago, with its attack upon the freehold and attempt to abolish it. In his 1 own constituency his attention had been recently called to a block of third-class land, but; I capable of great improvement, which under ordinary circumstances would have supported | a number of families. Until,tho passage tof { the Land Bill it could havo been opened for settlement at 7s. 6d. por acre. ,A number of ' settlers' had inspected it, but when thoy found that they could only take-up the land 1 on lease thoy went away in disgust. He > hoped something would bo don© to remedy the stupid, idiotic mistake of the Land Bill. ' They must' restore confidence to the settlers, L and give them to understand that they ' would not be penalised. That .' would go a ' great-way towards restoring confidence and prosperity.-

Mr. Jennings: Now you are right. : Mr.'Massey: Yes, and I hope you will support me. Tho Railways. Referring to railway matters, Mr. - Masscy said- that-last year tho oxoess of railway rovenue over expenditure, was £814,000, and the.previous year it had been £812 000 (this on. a : capital of : 29. millions). •' It had to be remembered that during the year, wo had purchased the Manawatu railway at a cost of £1,000,000.. Wheni the public got to knovr that during the past year we iiad increased the public indebtedness by £4,5.00,000 they would bo startled. " The Prime Minister: You were just calling out for. a farther increase iii advances under the Advances to Settlors' Act.'' '■ ' Mr. Massey said that what he suggested was that, instead of relying on tho Government lending departments, we should encourage the introduction of private capital. He repeated, that tho capital invested in our railways was now | very little short of £29,000,000, and on that'sum tho revenue was £800,000. It 'had also to bo remembered that the railways had the benefit of the open lines vote, being assisted to a certain extent from tho Public Works Fund, which' was borrowed money. .Tho Government declared that tho railways paid 3} per cent., but he did not-think they were ■ paying' 2J per cent. There was a;very soriousloss in'connection with the -railways system.' 1- . , MR. BUCHANAN'S VIEWS. ■ Mr. BUCHANAN (W&irarapa) said that there were' members on the Government benchos who never lost-an opportunity of shrieking at the capitalist. Within' tho last day or two capitalists had been called criminals. During the last year or two capital had departed from, the country to a very largo extent. Tho Primo Minister had admitted in his speech at Invorcareill that a number of tho loan companies had departed. The Prime; Minister: Fifteen years : ago, some of them. Mr. Buchanan stated that capitalists were leaving tho oountry now. The departure of the loan oompanies was- only ono instanco of investors losing confidence owing to the policy of the Government! Ho read a letter which ho had received only a few days ago from a settlor, born, in this oountTy, and who had done good work iu the oountry, who leased a property of 335 acres. When be desired recently to get, the freehold, ho had to pay £6 ss. for a valuation, and the valuer assessed the land at' £2 an acre', unimproved valuation, which was more than tho speaker would care to* pay for it. It looked as tlhe, Government instructed tho Department to pnt difficulties in tho way of tiiose uers to put diffioulties in tho way. of those settlers who wanted to get tho freehold of their, lands. " _ .« . The Prime Minister: It is absolutely contrary to fact.

Tho Back-Blocks./ : Referring to the non-spending of Government votes, Mr. Buchanan said that ho had a number* of applications from back-blocks settlers and others, lrut what was the use of-. putting them- ■ before tho House now ? The. country would suffer: niore in this direction, during the three months that Parliament was to adjourn. Cai-te-blancho had now been given to Ministers ,in regard to the expenditure of the money'that had boen voted, and ho Wanted to know what chance he had of getting any of-that money for authorised works in his district. : Mr. Hall:' The same chance as anybody else. ; ; Mr. Buchanan stated that his district had two votes authorised' last session, amounting altogether to. £2600,, and not a shilling of that, money had been spent on the works in question. Ho did not think, therefore, that he had much chance of getting any: of tho £50,000 which was to be spent during tho recess. Mr.- Buchanan quoted the Prime Minister m saying eighteen months ilgo, at tho time, of the American financial panic, that not even tho fringe of i-iat disturbance would touch this country, -Ji, Tho Prime Minister: Are you Stwj that'os what I saidP Mr. Buchanan replied that that was tho effect of, what ho had said. The Primo Minister: I know wry well what I said. ' r y Mr. Masse,v: One Minister said that tho prico of wool ■ mad yito difference to this country. (Lauglit f.) _ „ 1IU; : The Civil Service. Mr. Buchanan said that the f ivernment's chickens had come home to ~r< ' it, and now it was trying to face tho difficulty that had arisen, and, unfortunately, was facing it in a_vory imperfect way. ' Tho present dismissal of Civil Sorvants, Fine of ihom married men with families,- had been brought about by the'ni.'. ianagcment of,tho Government, and by tho unnecessary appointments which, had been .inado in tho past. The result.wouM bo that soino of th; best officers would be discharged, and others who were less competent w uld bo retained in tho Ser-. vice. Mr. " • ' '.nan also referred to the recent fall v .ustoms duties, and stated that tho had always been the. bestbarometer of tho financial position of tho colony, It tuu the wish of nil members

that thero would soon bo a resumption of hotter times, anil it should bo the endeavour of all of thorn to help tho Government out of tho difficulty in which it was placed. Tho Unemployed. But they had been looking in vain foi a load, a policy from tho Government that would reliovo tho unemployed trouble. Ho believed that iustead of matters getting bettor at once, they would get worse. Mr. Laurenson: Jeremiah I Mr. Buchanan: There it is ngain, Wo havo been called Jeremiahs, pessimists, and now the very people who have called us by tboso names ore realising that wo wero unfortunately true prophets, and that thoso on tho Government benches, and thoso supporting them, have gone a long way towards bringing about this state of affairs. Mr. Buchanan said he would liko to refer to several passages in tho momo. which wero of too optimistic • a character. It was stated that tho exports for tho fivo months to May 31, amounted to £10,530,000. What ho would like to know, was somothing about the values at which thoso exports wore placed. Ho had found that, as regards one of tho most important items, frozen meat, tho values were not what they ought to bo, relative to tho difference in prices last year and tho previous year. Unfortunately, tho values of frozen meat had fallen much bolow what was expected, Joseph: Who gives tho values? , Mr. Buchanan: Tho Customs, I suppose, ind tho inquiries are road© in tho most perfunctory manner. •Sir Joseph: It is the shippers who put tho values in tho export entries. •Mr. Buchanan: They may bo interested in putting tho value at. other than, their true values. Publlo Expenditure. Resuming, Mr. Buchanan went on .to say fcat it nuido a diiTcronco if less money actually camo into tho Dominion than was relied on. The past season had Wen. wonderfully successful—one of. tho best that had evor been experienced. It would bo seen that, "despite tho economy that was exercised, the expenditure last year -exceeded that of the preceding year by £671,000. \ If the economy in question had not.been 'cxercised tho amount would have been £760,000. That tho Government was reckless and extravagant was evident.-, ,

Sir Joseph: You tried to get us to Bpond moro tlu's morning. Mr, Buchanan said that Sir Joseph had made a very poor reply. Ho expressed regret that the Government had sucoecded in using the Houso to prorogue Parliament tor a solid three months, instead of going on with the, programme outlined at Invercargill. MR. LUKE ON NATIVE LANDS. ' . Mr. LlilCE (Wellington Suburbs) said ho would havo liked to have seen a larger amount sot down for the purchase of-Native lands. He thought much good would result if tho Government purchased areas right-out from tho Natives, and leased'them to settlers. It would bo better/to do that than to acquire estates at exorbitant prices. Two advantages would accrue if h)B proposal wero adopted. Firstly, the Natives would, in return for portion of their lands, securo money to assist them to prosccuto their businesses. In tho second place, it would give New Zealand a considerable nnmber of additional settlers, which wero badly needed. Mr. Luke also expressed tho opinion that New Zealand had legislated too far in advance of 60 small a country. That was one of tho reasons that there was now bo much unemployment. ' COST OF THE LONDON OFFICE. Mr. ARNOLD (Dunedin. Central) said thoro was no doubt that tho Government, the local bodies, and tho people would have to study economy. It was'bis opinion that the Labour Department was losing its prestige. When at Homo the Prime Minister Bhould inquire into the working of tho High Commissioner's office. Ho could prove that the expense in connection with' the office was out of all proportion to tho oost of the'offices of the other States.-'- Mr. Arnold then dwelt at longth on- tho state of tho polico force. [His remarks under that-head' will bo found elsewhore;"! VIEWS OF MR. HE RDM AN. Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington- North) said lie was j astonished that' the Public Debt during tho past year had been increased at'such an enormous rate. One wondered whether the country was; really getting oi quid pro quo for the immense sums 1 borrowed. R«tarding tho sum invested in loans to settlers e said that the Loans to Settlors Bill Waß never intended to be used by people who could securo largo sums from other sources. It was meant-to make small advances to struggling -settlers, so that they could develop their holdings, The original principle of the Bill wis round and good, but tho expanded principle-of lohdhig larger sums to people who could well afford to go to loan companios and other institutions was a vicious one. Where was it going to stop? Was tho Government going l to tako upon its shoulders, the -whole responsibility of financing people in this country. (A member: Ab far-as possible.) Then tho policy was mistaken. There was ho doubt that money had left, He know of an instance in which £250,000 was taken from Otago to the Argentine for investment. ; It seemed to him wrong that a condition of thing® should exist which would have tho effect of driving capital out of the oountry. Ho believed that the Labour party wero coming to SCO tliat capital was just as necessary for the countryjs development as labour itoelf. ■ A system should obtain under which capital and labour would work together upon natural lines; But it had como to bo considered that every man who had a little capital wan a target to be fired at. He was shot at with marvellous accuracy, so that tho man who might bo inclined to invest capital wasafraid to'doso', and either kept his money idlo or invested' it outside tho Dominion, Tho. Government should ~ 6et themselves to establish a condition of confidence in tho coiony which would attract investors to our shores. Whore would tho country bo if it was not for its' woollen mills, its moat freezing works, and f aotorios ? No such industries would bo started nowadays under the policy which tho Government had inaugnratccl. Ho believed that portion of tho Government's taxation policy was in-, imical to the interests of tho country.; Ho referred to the graduated land " tax, .' and Btatcd that a-condition of fear, was creatod in tho minds of people who had money to invest. Tho investment of capital, ho considered, wns''ono of the best things that could happen to a country, and tho Government should assist instead of stifling it. - By 'an .'-elaborate'proooss of: taxation the mail who had capital in his possession found himsdlf shot at frofa overy direction.

Criticism of the Railway Polloy. Turning to tho railways, ,Jlr. Herdman said that tho asset which th'oy. constituted was one of great value and importance, and, therefore, it was essential that its management should bo sound. Ho had boon trying to disiwcr what lino of policy tho Government -ltcndcd to pursueTo,girding thin RrOAt nssot. and'.lie was entirely at a. ) o ss to do so, f -tho lato Ministor for-Railwayg an d tho j : ■■ 'nt Minister had laid down entirely diffei '. i: policies.. Tho lato Minister for .s • urged that the railways should mak ' .. per cent, and no more, btl't the present Minister declared that the railways should pay interest tho same ,afj any other business, so that they should not be a chnrgo on tho consolidated ro ; Bo congratulated the present Mir for Railways on a declaration that ong.; n a vo boen'mndo years ago. In own year only-since tho railways had been taken over from tho commissioners had the railways made only 3 per oont. Really thero had boon no 3 per cent, policy: that policy was n myth. It had always been the custom for tho Minister for i Railways to declare in bis annual statement that tho railways earned a profit, but ha I omitted, ns other railway manasors did, to debit up interest on the capital cost, tho effect of which was to show an nnmirsl lops of £100,000 or £150,000 at the verv least. If-ho also charged up to profit and loss, as •other railway managers did, what ho charged to capital, tho loss would bo at. least £300,000 or £400,000. They hoped that: tho new Minister had commonccd'a now era of railway administration, and that they would bo so managed some day sa to earn at any rata interest on tho capital cost. But he believed that the Ministerial control of the New Zealand, railways was a mistake, and contrasted tho profitable administration of tbo New'

South Wales railways undor Commissioners. No compluint was over beard of tho railway management in that State, and no politician Would over suggest that tho management of tho ivow South Wales railways should bo placed under Ministerial control. Mr. Hordman also roferred to tho steady incrocvso in t)io ratio of expenditure in connection with tho Now Zealand railways to incomo, \yhich .has now roachcd the high point of 72.1t?, a» compared with 54.91 in New South Wajos, according to tho last report. It was stated that the ratio in April last x was 68 in tho South Island, and 60 in tin North. MR. OKEY ON ADVANCES TO SETTLERS. Mr. OKEY (Taranaki) said ho was rather that thero was liot a sum of monoy in tho loan for tho purpose of advancos to. settlors, lie took up tho position of tho borrower. A good deal of tllo. depression of tho past year had boon. owing to tho lending departments not having enough funds to moot demands. Ho thought it ■ must bo admitted that tho Advances to Sottlers Department was a main caoso of capital leaving tho country. Tho loan companies did not como hero for their health; thoy came to inalio a profit. (Mr. EU: By extortionate rates. 'It'must, bo difficult for tho Department now to get money to lot out at tho rate which tho Act allowed. It would bo better for tho settlors to pay moro for their money, and be ablo to got it, than to bo in. their present position. Ho knew that it was not a popular tiling to advocate the raising of tho. rate of Interest, but it was clear that the lending departments had been Bhort of pionoy, and ho thought the Government should look into tho matter. It would bo in. tho interest , of tho borrowors if tho Government hud brought down a measure by which they could, issue a fresh series of loans, raising tho interest by J per cent. , Many people who ; bad made - application for lesser amounts had • been kept waiting four or five - weeks after paying thoir valuation fee. The unemployed trouble would have been diminished if tho farmers had had money, to undertake ' improvements on their farjnß.' At the present price of land,- £500, tho present limit of tho Department, was very little use to a man-when ho wont borrowing, Tbore should bo means of borrowing up to £3000, if tho borrower had security, and tho Primp Minister should have, brought down a schcm# that would, provide sufficient funds for advances to settlers. Mr. Okcv referred to tho gross Iqss incurred by tho 00-opcraiiva • Byetem of conducting public works, and suggested that an investigation should bo held , into tho way in which thoso works wero carried on. Ho hoped that tlio sum of £50,000, to bo raised for now works, would be dis- , tnbuted fairly, and with advantage to th« . back districts. I REASON FOR THE SCARCITY OF b MONEY. - _ Mr. FRASER (Wakatipu) said no one did 1 iSf tlco tho Bub i ect > n tho allotted time. ) Thero was a largo wum which remained tin--1 expended on .March 31. Tlio Government , was on this occasion creating a very bad > precedent. - It could not be denied that tho - control of the public purse had gone, from tho a Houso to tho members of tho Treasury - benches. When the House toblc a saner . view of tho question—and ho believed it t would bo next session—members would in- - sist that the .control of the expenditure y should return to them. Who was going to l allocate on which works tho monoy was going \ to be spent ? There slwuld boa time within which thp Minister for Public Works should reoeivo applications for votes. J Hou. R. M'Kenzio: Ho has plenty of them now, i i 0 Mr. Frnser went on to say that the votes t authorised during tho recess should bo placed . on a separate list. If the Prime Minister 1 put those votes .on the estimates next sesii sion lie would bo making a mistake. Regardt ing the scarcity -of money lie said that banks s , had no right to lend money on real estate. No matter if ten new banks wero established n tile pressuro would not liavo been relieved, o What had happened? people had got overis drafts, and .when a tightness of money was experienced , and tlid banks called for the amount to, be reduced 'the' clients wero unable to realise.. It was his opinion that moro monoy j was needed for lending purposes'on mortgage. There had been for a number of years j a gradual process of capital being taken away r iVom this country. Much of tho money that 3 was available for loan on mortgage was sent out by peoplo at Homo. ' This money wa# j lent out not through companies, but B through legal firms. Ho was informed on reliable authority that many people who had ( money invested in New Zealand had given ' instructions that when tho term of the loans j. hod expired the money should, bo called up „ and returned to them.- i

Sir Joseph: They havo done that for forty : years. ■. ■■ '• Mr.' Frasor said that the money was being drawn from Now Zealand to send to Canada. AVith regard to the Advances to Settlors Act, ho declared that it was passed in the interests of the struggling settlors. \ ' Need, for Foarless Criticism. ' ,Tho earlier system of the Advances to Settlers Department did not drivo capital out of tho country. Tho Department provided funds in small amounts and at a low rats of interest for struggling farmers, and * other persons who wanted larger sums wero able to get them from other, sources. Tho Governtnbnt's policy had been 0110 of tho contributing faotors in driving capital away. It was not true that tho money was looked up; if it:was in tho Dominion it would bo ' available at tho <. ratos' of interest now,. offered. Ho wos not. going to advocate that the''limit of tho Advances to Settlers .Department should bo reduccd, for in many cases that was now tho only source whoro ' , people could, get -money. The Government had mado no' proposal tq relieve tho present position; tho country would bo left.to stew in its own jjiico. They had a right to expect that l something should bo done in ' this mattof. Tho Government should know what capital came into and wont out of tho Dominion. One of tho things most important to the prosperity of, tho country was that there should be capital available at a reasonable rate for tho development of its' industries., They must not live in a fool's paradise. Tho increase in the value of wool, very consi4erable as it had been, only just about mado up the loss of the previous year. Ho had great faith in the recuperative qualij ties of the country, and thoy had had a •splendid season, but they were ltot out if . . tho wood yet, and much care would havo to bo oxercised, He hoped tho Government would show' them somo lead out of the troublo they woro in to-day in regard to scarcity of money for investment, No one could jay A single word in criticism of tho finances, however accurate his facts, wiLhout being h<!ld up to Scorn and derision, and told that ho was misrepresenting the Government, but that would not' prevent him from saying what hoi had to say occasionally. The mail who was the best cilizon and patriot in this country, especially if ho held a public position, was thfe man who fearlessly stated what ho knew to bo facts. ; ■ . . "IF JOHN BALUNCE WERE ALIVE-" Mr. NEWMAN (Ma-nawatu) (said that W ' was not averse to' moderate borrowing for tho purposo of developing tho country. But th# principal "plank in tlio policy of tho Govern, meat'was-, to borrow moMy. In 1891 tlx Public Debt was thirty-r: .'lit millions, whilst to-day it was seventy millions. It was ftls< tho policy of tho Government to endorse tlw bills of local bodic-s and oilers who wished to cut up property. No roaii who cared foi tho wolfarq of the Dominion could help feeliuc somo anxiety at tho lapiditv. at yiiiKh th« Public Debt wai incroasim;. More lorn; New Zealand would havo to adopt some system ol tailoring olf in tho mater of boriwvuiK, H< believed that tlio .Government would havo to give all Grown tenants the right of purdinso. ' 111 his experience the Advances to .Settlors v Act was of little use excepting to people who had very' tfood security. : ; a small loan and wcro prepared to witif f.vr'itl The cry, of /I'Vw-hola: t* i»»hol«i • . . . «t- . tor 0110 than ."Bomow,.Borrow."' ' ,'ihn Ballance were alive ho would bo fwi. ng on tlio Opposition sido now. A HAND-TO-MOUTH POLICY. Mr. ALLEN (Brucc) characterised tho policy of tho Government as a plunging hand-to-mouth ono. If the Hill wore not passed (•ho-Prime Minister must make default in retard to t'ho Midland railway contract. Na

jtovwion had boon moda for thait railway excopt what came out of th© i'ublic Works Joan. .If the Government had done the right thing it would have brought down— as ill mo oa&e of this Main Trunk ime—a iiiil uutiion-s----ing the amouat of tho contraot. Air. Alien tnon uetaueu ws proposals , iur a dtaencu aoliema, which appear in another column. RAILWAY Y/ORKS. MR. HIND (Stratford) criticised tho action of tho Government 111 putting men elf the Strattoi'd-Ungaruo railway works. When I he; bad .wired tu the Minister for Public .Works on the question, tlie Hon. H. M'Kenzio had replied to the'enect that the married hien snould consult tho Labour Department, " Why many of ; the married men had been sent there by tno 'Lepartmentl During . tho jiast month 3oU men Had been dischargeu , from' road works in tho Tarauaki district, he proceeded to criticise the action of tho .Government -in"', sending moiiey out of tlio , c'ountiy for ■ investment, when the Advances to Settlers Department was starving. Somo of the 'moiiey;' tor which the Government were payiiig '3j per : cent." to the Savings Bank was invested at 3} per cent. " EQUITY OF SACRIFICE. Mr. C'LAiUi! (Chalmers; said that. he believed in equity, of sacrifice,. It - was not necessary Ho get . oliioers from Home. Under a scheme; whicU he had; formulated, tho State would insure "the volunteers. n nun vney .reached 60' years (if age they should get, say, £100.; 'Of ''course,' . that would mean a re- , duction in tho' capitation. ,'iUey, \souid bo curo at'the/end of four years a force of 70,000, in five years 90,000, and in six years Hu.uuu, physically nt aou trauieu men. me cost of the. scheme would not be more than £350,000 . per annum. ■ SPEECH BY MR. TAYLOR. Mr. TAYLOR (Christchurch: North) thought that Massey . and Mr. Herdman were rather over-concerned ovor tho capitalist who had £40,000 invested in land aiid au additional £50,000 which ho wanted to invest,Ho, would 'remind them' qf! the industrial'clas'sos, thousands: otV whom cornea, net irioro than'£loo por annum." Tho Customs tax .amounted to £3 per head—a tax which was unduly heavy on tho married, man. 'The day was not far distant when something would be' done- to relieve tho: man whose condition of life never allowed him to save. Ho was sorry to find that, they could not cvon take a threo. months 1 holiday without borrowing ono'' and a quarter millions to Save them from suspending public -works.. It Was a dreadful pass to . which the borrowing ' policy, of the' Government had brought us, and' that policy could not bo; reversed now without an amount of pruning and curtailment that: would fall with fearful severity. He was sorry ;that the Railway Statement would not come up till next session, because ho was very anxious to learn how the present Minister for Railways' could reform the system without. impeaching the administration_. of his predecessor, ' the ; present Prime Minister.-

Closer Settlement, . ■ He thought that there was a greater need ■ far closer ' settlement "to-dajr than ,at any time since the policy was inaugurated. In a'period of depression it was necessary to increase the volume of • production to ; make op for the shrinkage in the value of the staple products, and: closer settlement was needed for' that purjwse; He hoped ' that when' the 'Prime Minister returned the..Advances to Settlers Department would be reorganised, 'SO; that if/- the banks were ' hot meeting tho current requirements of the oountry and could'not or would not provide the: capital" necessary'.to.'- stimulate its' in- _ stitiitions, / the Advances -• to Settlers Department must- bo made a medium for. giving the'people ; at a fair rate of interest the capital they. could not, get from other institutions. He-would- convert the Department into a . -mortgage bank, hot Von tho scale that: it-had been- in -the past, but so that it should meet the requirements of' the country in proportion as they arose, and 'if private capital 'was being taken out of tjie country the Advances to Settlers Destep' into'the 1 ' breach. He was. not 'much impressed, by the statements that in large .volumes 1 was leaving 'NeW'''Zealand;>''for, where could-it „find a field fbr j s'afer or*'inort> -profitable, investment than in "a" British" colony ?■: " •' ■f THE BORROWING QUESTION. , .. ANDERSON. (Mataura) believed that* it was not possible t-o carry on -the business of this country without . borrowing. He thought' that the Government should introduce a Local Government Bill, and faco the questioni of borrowing by local bodies' proHe.'advocated the .placing of. the Railways jristead;"of Ministerial control. .; • : \' MR, HERRIES ON RAISING MONEY. Mr. HERRiES (Tauranga) remarked that the Government had given practically no particulars in. regard, to tho. flotation of the last ; lop. From the accounts, it would appear that there were some peculiar transactions ill connection with .the .loan., It seemed that the loan was floated on debentures at 4 per cent., biit £420,000.-had,; since the loan was floated/been converted at: 3| per cent., ajid for the conversion the Dominion had hac to pay a premium. Would it hot have been better to '-have /floated - .the 'whole •of the loan :iat',.3J per cent, inscribed stock? : With regard to tho .proposed-road works, estimates sjiould have been brought down. Ho wanted to, know- Why, thero were.investment accounts in connection .with the' Advances, to Settlors .Account, - and the .Public -Works Account, frnn rnn . r t efer i r , od to the.proposal;.to .borrow, iIUU.UUQ.- for the purchase of, Native, lands. J.here. was no more burning, question in the .Dominion. It was a,question: which .had been ■tnUwTwith m tho. past. As a result of'tbolegislation of 1!)00, .practically nothing had' 1 been done. -He congratulated tho Government upon its decision .that the system of piirphasiiig Natlvo lands was to be resumed. 80, hoped that when :the lands were purchased,, they would not bo left, idle

MR. FISHER STATES HIS VIEWS/ -Mr. .FISHER (Wellington Central) said .that every pound that .was driven out of the country would have to be replaced bv a bor-rowed-pound. Why had the Government not considered a money schomo which had been put forth by ailocal.,resident?, ;If the Go-' vernment going to instil confidence in tho English investors it would not be by extravaganco and Imperialistic gifts, but bv-a sound econrsiic policy.. The. Government should to recoup its finances by reinstating the duty, which had been taken off sugar and kerosene. . If the Native lands were oponed up there would probably not bo tho exodus from Now Zealand that was goinc on- at the present time. In the Civil Servrci thoy had been developing during recent years •SS° ' 0 { ' he 'greatest, trusts, ever seen. Ihrough the Servico the State controlled tiie destinies, of. something; like 40;000 people. ,1 he 'most extraordinary methods had been adopted, m the allocation .of Departments, following, on ;tho amalgamation scheme. He approvMl, tho proposal of a Pjiblic Scrvico iiili. ■. Old ago pensioners should not be penalised, for improving; their homes. THE PRIME MINISTER. REPLY TO CRITICISM. The PRIME MINISTER, thanked the members on' his side for the courtesy thoy had extended, to him by, refraining under tlio circumstances from' taking part in the debate. Ho_wiShed_them to judge of tho political sinconty of tile fault-finders on the other, side. None, of'.thorn had assisted tho Government in its effort to keep tho .public expenditure "' n- r ' Herdman's, views on railway policy were adopted. it would ' mean higher faros •nnd.'froights.. Then again, Mr. Taylor pad practically suggested that a largo sumit might'be be borrowed . lor; the purchaso /of Native lands. If .tho Government wcfc to do as thoy woro urged it .would in no time smash the country into smithereens.There''had never been in' the political history' of Now .Zealand a body of men in the. HouseMlhcy .were on tho Opposition side—who we're 'So "outrageous in theirdemands for the expenditure of momoy. Ho went on .to : saj. that the. member for Bruce was the most- extraordinary man in tho House on matters of finance. Ho wished at leastvone :million spent on railways in his district. The member was advocating tho Otago ■ Central railway, which had only paid ss: 9d. ptsr.QCiit. last .year on its cost, and tho Roxburgh-Lawrencc line, which would pay no

more. ' He (Sir Joseph).had ascertained that Aero was no truth in tie allegation that tho salaries of any officers had been withheld. He could not understand why members on the other side tried to put the worst side on everything. Was it not a fact that somo of their friends had to go to the authorities to protest against the damogo that was being done to the country. Mr. Massey: By whom ? Sir Joseph said it was by tie organ thai voiced their views. - ■ ' Mr. Massey: Which organ? . Sir Joseph replied that it was tho -.chief organ, in which tho members to whom ho had referred were so interested. "Our Credit Stands High."

Referring to tho Advances to Settlers Department, tho Primo Minister said some membors had complained that tho amounts loajied were not sufficient, but when tho Bill was first introduced tho- limit was reduced from £5000 at tho demand of tho Opposition. Ho quoted figures to show that most of the loans were of small amounts. Then there was tbo bogy of driving money out of the country; Tho loan companies whiah went our during a period pf ten years had taken away two million pounds, but the Advances to Settlers Department had brought in; three millions, and other institution's three millions." The companies lending out on mortgage in New Zealand had during tho last five years lent out an increase of over £200,000 each, and the Department had lent out £1,800,000 to settlers and workers. Speaking in December, 1907, of the American financial crisis ho had merely said that our finances had not been in any way affected, and that the only real effect was felt from the action of New York on London. During the last twelve months', while , insinuations against the country's credit were being made, over four millions had been borrowed by the Government, and, there' had never ■ been a hitch in the matter. "Our credit stands high," said the Prime" Minister,' "though Wo have been traduced, maligned, and misrepresented." Tho, timo had come whon, in the interests of all. classes, they should protect the country from the peoplo who worn prepared to destroy tho financial fabric, and they' should legislate •so that a penalty should fall'on, the people who were prepared, for some, reasons of their/'own, to injure their-country' by destroying its credit. That had had to'be done in Canada, and the time was coming when they would have to do; it here. ' Ho had no timo to discuss the general question of tho railways, but the policy of the; Government- had not' been changed. The Minister-.for Railways had not said that, it had been 'changed, and he knew that he waß loyal enough and honouf-able enough to adhere to the / undertaking which was formed whon lie took charge of tbo Department. T.ho attempt to create. mischief between them would not have' the slightest effect. They were not. going to raise, rates or create dissatisfaction .or dostroy.tbe settlement of the country in, places where. it was not largo- at present, notwithstanding the effort made by ia few peoploto create a contrary impression. PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS. | Mr. Anderson oxplained -that he' had introduced his deputation beoause a Minister had promised to endeavour to get the railway authorised. . Mr. Newman, said \he was in favour of moderate; but not excessive,' borrowing. NO ALTERATIONS IN COMMITTEE. The Bill was read a second time-on the voices, and it was dealt with in committee. ' An amendment by Mr. .Massey to - alter the limit of operation from October 14 to September 30 was'lost by 43 votes'to 25.', Mr. MASSEY then, moved that sub-clau6e (a),', of Clause 4, providing for tho - increase of one amount of unauthorised-expenditure from ,£100.000,t0 ..£150,000, be deleted. He declared that the Prime Minister had/not shown' any- reason why the-amount should be'available. -. In reply the Prime Minister said that the increase, was necessary, because, if it wore not made, there misht not be sufficient money, for -salaries, v.otc.''; In;.,that, event it would bo requisite, he'said, to summon Par"liamenti;.iiif; August <jzi: Mr. Massey challenged the Prime Minister to show that the salaries were not provided for in the ordinary way. ' -Mr. ;T..E. TAYLOR said-it had 1 not been shown that there would bo a. special claim on 1 the/unauthorised expenditure before Parliament again, met.

_The sub-claus© was retained by 42 votes to 27 votes. . No objection,wasiraised, with regard to the remaining clause. - Mr. HERDMAN moved a new clause "That Section 41 of the Public Revenues Act, 1908, is hereby repealed." The law as it stood, he said,.gave the Ministry power-w'hero appropriations had been mado .'of - transferring moneys of. any one vote. in a particular class to any , other vote in tho same class. . | , Mr. MASSEY hold that the clause in question was most objectionable. It was passed during tho absence from the House, of himself and others. . The PRIME MINISTER said that if there' was to bo amendment in the law it should not be made in -a-temporary Act. It would, he thought, bo a very dangerous thing to delete tho clause. No member of the' Houso could point to ah instance where the provision had bee-n abused. Hie' 1 amount of flexibility which tho clause provided was necessary." Tho proposed-clause was rejected by 43 votes to 26 votes. • Mr. ALLEN moved a new clause "That all mon-e.v issued aind paid under the authority df this Aot shall be.included in.the esti-. mates and, accounts for tho financial year ending March 31 next,"; -. '"ir Joseph' WARD gave his assurances that ~the now works would bo shown '<wi'."a S9paratoMist. / ' The proposal, was rejected hv 45 votes to 24. ' ■ i •' -. , It was then agreed that tho third roading should take place to-day. - • -Tho,House adjourned' at 1.10 a.m. till 10.30 this- morning. ... * • ■

' V ; . :• ' : ' £ Aid to. Public. Works (1907) .. 191,800 Aid to Public Work's (1908) , 1,200,000 Hutt Railway arid Road Improve-. ' e • ments . (1905-07) ; . 69,300 Government Railways Act (190S): 146,100 Wellington . and ; Manawatu Rail- '. way ' Act ' ! 1,000,000 Post and Telegraph (1908) 200,000 Land for' Settlement Act . - £566,020 •; Redeemed ............ £354,525 — 211,495 Looal Bodies' Loans (1908) 250,000 Government Advances' to Settlers ■, (1908) ; 1,048,800. Government Advances for Workers 123,500 N.Z. Consols Act'(1894) ............ : . 124 Increased by Conversion ............ 36,928 For Redemptions 7,590 , increaso ..................... 4,484,637