LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 8, 4 October 1907, Page 6

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

FIRE BRICADES BILL. . POSITION OF THE INSURANCE " COMPANIES. 30VERNMENT WILL NOT OPPOSE ' ■ / INCREASED RATES. The adjourned debate on the Fire .' Brigades Act' Amendment was resumed. •• . Tho lion. S. T. George said that he : was opposed to the principlo of the original \ measure, nnd held that the , responsibility of fire provontibn should rest solely with the ..local (governing, bodies.' Nevertheless, he had attempted, though .unsuccessfully, 'to help the Coun6il*to make the measure workable. . ; 1 Government Contributions. . Dealing the question of-'the; amount of the Government contribu-,. tions to the Fire Boards, Mr. George ■ said it was the intention of the Coun- ■ oil last'year that tho Governmont con-: tribution should be in - tho same ratio to itho whole revenue of the Board, as tho value (if tho -Government's buildings to the, value of all the biiilcl- . ings. "That would mcaiV that the Government would find l-17th of the re-; . ■ vomie of the Wellington Board. The: i Board's estimate ,of a year's oxpendii turo was £6820, and the Government: should, therefore,. pay £401, _ whereas' tho Bill proposed to make it £250: (> Under the amended Bill, twenty-seven ■ boards 'could be' constituted, and the ■ Government could only, be called upon to pay £2050 by way of contributions to. Jill these. r; - . ,The Government as Fire-Raiser. Yet the Government was probably ■the greatest'lire-raiser ,in the Dominion. /Had the for-' gotten the i fires at" the Government ■ Printing Office, the General Post Ofi ; fice, Government House, the Govern"merit Buildings at Tauranga, the Post , Office and other buildings at .Auckland, Government House at Auckland, jtho, sheds at Lyttleton, the railway •eheds at : Christchureh and JDunedin, ... , and pumerous , railway stations, and schools ? If any business firm had so ixnany. fires they would be charged, and ■probably quite rightly, with inccn■diarism. If the Government was not (prepared to make larger contributions,' '■ the Boards would bo better off withj, lout payments from the .Government and without its representatives in - ,f^airanembership. of the Companies. v , of tho mistako of "ftimstftuting, Fire Boards in small disVjtrictß, the lion, gentleman stated that •; kfc .Alexandra', in- Otago, a place with Ja population of s 900, the total fire ipramnims collected wore £500. The >lasscS• on;fires, at the usual porcent.viage, would; bo £300, and the expenses ya? tie xompanies £100. That would' learo., £100, 'out of which companies * feould -have, to contribute to tho ex-. : ponses ofithe Jirkßoirtls. The result 'jsonil.borto increase,the?iosses of 'the L CainjEfme3,. r they .ivcmjd probably •' .%&>'tadro3msmosß'in: tho place. f.ffflft.Positioain Werilngton. * In Wellington tho" total of fire pre-' p.Jimnns collected yearly was £65,000. ; "iAllawing 60 per cent." for losses, and i34-por cent.' for expenses, thero was cleft 6 'per cent, for profits, and if any '•.Icompany averaged such a profit, it .v/raiH do very well. In Wellington Itho cost of the Fire Brigade would be ' £ per ceht. on the.premiums, leaving ionly one per cent, profit to tho com- , patties. Sinco tho State Eire Insurance Office-iwas started, the cromjanies had beep doing business' absolutely at a loss. In Auckland,-ho was informed the companies wouTB have to pay 8J per cent, on:their premiums, and the total cost of them throughout tfco Dominion would be 10 per cent, ca premiums. Either tho rates must..6i> Taised, or tire companies must withdraw from the business. Foreign Companies. The' Bill would only " get at" those gmipanies which wero licensed in New geitland. Lloyd's paid no liconce fee, po income-tax in tho colony, and no Contribution to tho fire brigades, and Would therefore be able to re-insirre At lower rates than the companies licensed in the colony. The Government; therefore, had re-insured with Lloyd's, and yet wo had passed a tariff to protect New Zealand industries. He understood the Government had also approached .a German company for underwriting. Tho Attorney-Uenoral: The other : oompanies would not do it.

Property and Borrowing. . Proceeding, the Hon. S. T. George said Clausb 8 ; giving tho Boards ■ — which ivci'o irresponsible _' bodies —; power to borrow money with no further'check than tho Ministerial: con- . sent was wrong, but no, bank would lend a board money by way of overdraft at 5 per cent. As tho Boards were given power to appoint their own officers, they might as well have power in- other matters without tho necessity of obtaining Ministerial sanction. In regard to the Boards paying, for firo prevention property, by way of interest at 4 per cent, for 25 years, ho objected that much of tho plant would be worn out in three years. But, as a matter of justice, the land, buildings and plant should all be handed over free to the Boards. The local authority would in return bo relieved of half the cost of firo prevention* Repeal Demanded. The sub-clause validating all Boards already constituted should be struck out, so that thero should be no Boards like Alexandra. In conclusion, he 'suggested that, instead of passing this "patching Bill," the original Act should be repealed and a new and complete measure introduced. .The Hon. H. F. Wigram said that although',, unlike the previous speaker, he held no brief for the insurance companies' (laughter), be agreed with his concluding suggestion, arid much else that he . had said. He thought that thero should be provision for paying the -expenses of mombers of the Boards. He also asked that the Boards-should not bo required to pay telephone charges, and • that thero .should- be penalties for false claims. Further, the Boards should be allowed, when borrowing by way of-overdraft, to give the bank tho right to malco a first charge on the. Boards' revenues, j, ; Tho Hon. J.-Callan agreed with the suggestion to Repeal tho Act and pass a new one. , " ' ; - Perils of Legislators. There should be some provision for removing members ot the Boards other than by • their own resignations, - and . the' Act should define a' quorum of £he -Board: In regard to the care'of Government buildings,' he , thought tho Parliamentary Buildings .were a .'verttable' death-trap. The power of,'the' Board to sell land should bo safeguarded by providing that tho; proceeds of such sales should bo used for ; tho purchase. of other lands; or iri vested. The-'final the Fire Board power to require, an inquest ', to be held concerning ai'fire, "had his warm approval, as it r wouldcpr6yqnt; / many fires due to. incendiarism. ...' tie thought one Act would be bettor ; tlian the two,'but-if,''as-.he had jUnderstood{ the Attorney-General to, say;.-. both: would be included next'year, in';ajCSjmi'v pijation Act, that would doubtlessvbev satisfactory.'.:' . ' The Minister, in Reply. ■ , ■ The Attorney-General said the principle of ,the Act was not in question. .It had become law, and was accepted by the country, and even by tho insurance companies, as a fact, and the Council should limit its efforts to making tho measure more workable. The only point he now wished to deal with was the amount of the Government .contributions. A Correction. lie found that Mr. George was jright in his figures regarding ■ the Govern-: ment contribution to the 'Wellington . Fire Board, but he wished to s'ay jthat; 1 the figures he. gave were supplied to him by the Fire Board, and they told : the Government contribu- , tion, Von, a- proportional basis, ,'iybuldi 'amount' to £212. Apparently the Board should Havo asked fori £412. r He did not see that the Government' should :;bo called upon to paf, more . than- it would if it were a private | . owner of property. , Otherwise, the ; country, settlers would have to* pay , for firo prevention in tho towns. If the Government paid one-third, like i the Government of Victoria, would bo £8000, much of which would*' come', from. - people who had no fire prevention organisation. The position . was different in Victoria, where half '; tho. people of the State. lived within the. Melbourne firo district. " Distinctly a Boycott." The losses suffered by the insurance coinpanics were largely due .to their attitude. towards 1 the State Fire Insurance Office.; Their, action had been distinctly a -bqycott/.'andthat boycott' had only been, relaxed; when it bccaipe evident to them: that ; tho State had come into the business" to stay. Of. course, the companies .could not carry on at a profit of only 1 per cent., and it was not the policy of the Government ; to _ forco ; them either to do' that or to withdraw from the Dominion. Speaking, as the headof the State Fire Insurance Office, he would say .that if tho'additional bur-, .dens imposed by the Bill made it necessary to raise tho insurance rates, the Government would co-operate in doing ; so." i Where the Burden Will Fail. : The burden would ultimately fall on those who insured, and they could very l well bear it, because they would be relieved, in their capacity of local ratepayers, of half the cost of fire ..prevention. There, would also bo the advantage, never enjoyed before, of a contribution from the Government, He, hoped that the system of Firo, Boards-would be as beneficial here as it. had been in Australia. .With regard to the presence of tho Govern- ' ment representatives on tho Boards, it was hoped that they, would ayt as mediators, wlicn. necessary, between the three representatives of the companies and;.tho three represen'ta- " tives of tho municipalities. It was necessary to'pass the Bill this session,. so as to!put 'an end to the existing state of chaos. The. second reading was carried on the .voices, and the Bill was referred to the Joint Committee. , LAND AND INCOME. ASSESSMENT BILL. - Tho Land and Income Assessment Bill was received from tho House, and read a first time. The second reading was set down for . next Tucsday> POLICE OFFENCES 81LL.,; The minor amendments made in.the Police Offences Bill by the Joint Statutes Revision Committee wero agreed) to. 1 Tho Hon. J. E. Jenkinson contended that there was no noed for tho new 1 Clause 5, which makes it an offence to publicly use words, abbreviations, or. initials, so as to cause anyone to believe, contrary to the fact, that he holils a degree or diploma. Tho speaker thought it would penalise persons who had no dishonest intention. The Attornoy-General said the clause would hit tho usors of distinc- ' tions conferred by bogus American or other universities and institutions. The Hon. J. Gallan moved to add a proviso that/ no prosecution should take place under tho clause without tho consent of tho Attorney-General. This was agreed to, and Clause 5 was adopted. The Bill was reported from Com- . mittco, and the Council adjourned at •■. 4.35 p.m.