DISARMAMENT.

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 19162, 19 November 1927, Page 19

DISARMAMENT.

MILITARY TRAINING SYSTEM. MOTION FOR ABOLITION. PRESBYTERIAN ASSEMBLY DEBATE. i "That, in view of the necessity of loyal co-operation with the League of Nations, which has from the first contemplated disarmament as one of its primary objects and chief responsibilities, and which is now pressing on in the matter the Assembly records its conviction that the military activities of this country should bo reduced as much and as rapidly as possible, and that as a step in this direction compulsory military training should be abolished." The above motion, which was adopted at last year's Presbyterian General Assembly, was endorsed at yesterday morning's session. In moving the motion, Dr. Gibbs said that the Public Questions Committee wanted the Assembly to reaffirm it) one of the reasons for this being that the Assembly should throw into still clearer relief the desire for peace and disarmament. The committee desired permission to embark on a crusade to secure the adoption by every Churcn in the Dominion of the attitude which for the past twelve months had been that of the Presbyterian Church. During the past year, the feeling of horror of the unspeakable tragedy that would take place in another world war had been deepened in the minds of all thoughtful men and women. This much was shown in the columns of the newspapers, and he did not intend to multiply words in respect of war's horrors. He would not refer to the statement of General Sir William Robertson, but would draw attention to a recent article in the "Morning Post," a paper which could be described as militaristic and riavalistic in the extreme, and which had told the Government th*t war must cease. The arguments : n favour of peace arid the abolition ot military training were stronger to-day, ho submitted, than twelve months ago. A Marvellous Change. A marvellous change had recently taken place in Europe. Germany had signed the Optional Clause, thus binding herself to submit to the Hague Court for arbitration any question likely to lead to war, ana to accept its decision France had also intimated that she, too, was prepared to sign the clause within the next few months. This would mean that other nations would have to follow suit, and was a tremendous step, toward universal peace. Recently he had read a newspaper article setting out the real reasons leading up to the Great War, stating that they were suspicion, jealousy, and fear, which had. caused a feeling of insecurity. There would never be any real peace, however, until there was disarmament, and he hoped that before long compulsory military traiaing in the Dominion would be abolished by Act of Parliament. He wanted the whole of the Churches in New Zealand to stand together on the question and insist that this should b« done. The Compulsory Training Scheme. In seconding the resolution, the Rev. John Paterson (VVanganui) said that last year he had opposed a similar motion, but he was now certain that without disarmament there couldl be no peace, it was essential that the compulsory military system be abolished. He knew that the system was being deliberately used to foster tho military spirit in the youths of the Dominion. More than once during the E resent year the youths attending drill ad been told that they must get ready to fight the "Chinks." To his mind the present system, regarded from any angle, was an absurd waste of money, and was entirely ineffective even to those people who wanted it as a means of defence. It was hard for him to stand up and make such statements, since he had expressed different views last year, but a close and careful study of the question since then' had convinced him that disarmament and the abolition of military training were absolutely essential. The Rev. Walter McLean (Oamaru) enquired what was the significance ot the motion. Last year, Tie said, he had moved an amendment to the motion, and he would like to know it* the object were to cut out compulsory military training rather than the withdrawal of the contribution to the Imperial Navy or the Singapore Base. Dr Gibbs replied that with the utmost candour such a suggestion had not occurred to the Committee nor to himself. , "Not a Mere Hobby."

Mr McLean said that if New Zealand were to have a defence system it should not be treated as a mere hobby, but it should be the duty of every able-bodied man to do his share. He believed in disarmament, but not in interference with the present defence system. If war should come again (which God forbid) he would prefer that trained men should be called on for service and not a scratch army. He was in full sympathy with the League of Nations, and had a horror of war, but to his mind it would be a mistake to tinker with the present defence system.

The Rev. David Button (Dunedin, found himself largely in sympathy with Dr. Gibbs, but did not agree with him regarding the abolition of the defence system. Why should it not be compulsory P It had been claimed that it was wrong for a Christian man to be a soldier, but on the other hand Luther, Calvin, and other great leaders held that it was right. The Church itself in its confession of Faith held that it was iawiul to wage war when just and necessary. ]f military training were correct it would not improve the position by making it voluntary. It was an attempt to exemptions, and that was a wrong principle. The Rev. W. Trotter (Dunedin) said that he could not support the motion. If military training were wrong it would not help matters by making it voluntary as the very essence of immorality was doing a wrong thing voluntarily. If military training were right then it ought to be compulsory The Rev. H. G. Gilbert (Ashley) said that Mr Trotter had entirely missed the point. While the speaker agreed with military service being given he thought that the question should be left to an individual himself If military training were compulsory why should not church-goine be made so also. One was just as logical a* the Uher. Speaking as an ex-Digger, Mr Limburn said that about 60 per cent, of the men who went away to Gallipoli from New Zealand were untrained, and yet they were equally as good soldiers as the territorials. "Cheap Clap Trap." The Rev. Dr. Erwin ridiculed Dr. Gibb's suggestion that the abolition of compulsory military training would have any effect on the nations of the

world and would affect .the question o£ peace. Did any one imagine, he that the statesmen of the world were fools ? Everyone was surely aware that the defence of the Dominion did not depend on the defence system, but on the British Navy. He hated war as much as any other man, but had no sympathy with the cheap "clap trap" that had been talked that morning. What the Churches should do was to get together and endeavour to form the opinions of their congregation to oppose war. The Rev. John M. Allen (Wellington) said that the comparatively mild system of compulsory military training was not as objectionable as the conscription of European countries, but one of its defects was that it dragged the whole youth of the country into the military machine at an early age, including mere children of fourteen years of age. The Rev. L. Hunt (Auckland), in supporting the motion, said that the compulsory defence system perpetuated a militaristic spirit. He believed that the imposition of the system was * curse to Now Zealand. Its perpetuation meant that war was , inevitable, whereas its abolition would mean peaoe. He drew attention to Germany which, he said, in spite of her preparedness for the war, lost it, whereas unprepared Britain was on the side of the winners. He believed that the present system of training was a waste of money. The recent manoeuvres in Britain showed how quickly the methods of warfare were changing; so what was the use of persisting in the system. It had been stated that the nest war would mean the mobilisation of women as well as men and that whole towns would be wiped out by gas bombs from the air. There was then no sense in training men in a system that might be out of date in the near future. Mr 6. T>. Mclndoe (Invercargill) said that the Assembly was asking for too much when it sought disarmament. Every step should be taken to make peopie realise the horrors of war, but a peace force was necessary as long as there were wicked people in the world. Against War. The Rev. Mr McLean said that he desired to make a personal explanation. His reputation had suffered because of his opposition to the abolition of the defence system. He wanted it to be known, however, that he was as much against war as anyone. Dr. Gibh said that he was aware that every one in the Assembly was as much opposed to war as he was. He hoped that this would be a satisfactory answer to the Rev. Mr McLean so far as he (the speaker) was personally concerned. The motion was then put and declared carried by 150 votes to 47. Case of A. M. Richards. The Assembly then discussed the case of Mr A. M. Richards, of Auckland, who was convicted by a Magistrate for failure to render service as required by the Defence Act.

The Rev Dr. Gibb moved:— The General Assembly, in view of the case of Mr A. M. Richards,, hereby:— (1) Declares in harmony with its historical position its conviction of the inviolability of the rights of the individual conscience; (2) Recognises that the attitude taken up by Mr Richards is one which a Christian may feel himself obliged to take hy reason of his interpretation of his duty to Christ; (3) Claims for members of this Church who hold conscientious objections to military training on religious grounds the rights of oxemption provided by the 1912 amendment of the Defence Act, 1909. In doing so, Dr. Gibb said that the question was what was to be done re. carding Mr Richards's next application Tor exemption, which was to be made in January or February If the motion were carried, it would mean that no Magistrate would be able to state that the Church had not declared its attitude on the question. This was seconded hy the Rev. Professor Dickie.

The Rev. W. McLean (Oamaru) objected to the motion, which to his mind dealt too mnch with the rights of an individual and not enough with his duties. He thought also that the motion would be more effective if it set out the attitude of the Church generally, and did not refer to Mr Richards at all. He moved an amendment on these lines. This was seconded by the Rev. W. L. Marsh, who said that Mr Richards was utterly dpposed to the principle of military service, and of giving any other service in its stead. Mr Richards's attitude was Tolstoyan, and the speaker considered that it would be a mistake for the Assembly to associate itself with Mr Richards's name. The debate was adjourned.

AMENDMENT DESIRED. (PBEBS ASSOCIATION TILKQBAM.) AUCKLAND, November 18. Discrimination between different religious denominations in the granting of exemptions from military training was strongly criticised at the session of the Auckland Methodist Synod last evening, and a resolution recommending an amendment of the Act was carried. ■ The text of the resolution is: "This Synod is strongly convinced that the laws relating to military training should'make provision for exemption from such training and military service on the grounds of individual religious conviction apart from the tenets of any Church or denomination to which the applicants belong, and that this conference be recommended to request the Temperance and Morals Committee to take measures in co-operation with other Churches to secure the necessary amendment of the Act."