ADDRESS IN REPLY.

Press, Volume LXI, Issue 18423, 2 July 1925, Page 11

ADDRESS IN REPLY.

YESTERDAY'S DEBATE. NO-CONFIDENCE AMENDMENT BY MR HOLLAND. (aep.id:;::d rsES3 association ekoxt.) WELLINGTON, July L In Ihe House of Representatives airly this afternoon, the debate on the Ad dress-in-Rcply was resumed by ilr T. K. Sidey. Af>fr paying a tribute to the y*f>.T-iug personalities of their Excellencies, who were worthy successors of the great sailor and his lady who had just left us, he proceeded to comment on the frequency of shunting accidents in railway yards, and expressed a hope that steps would speedily be taken to reduce this frequency, even i they c uld not bo entirely eliminated. The mover and the seconder of tli motion had much to say regarding pri fflary products. Last year there wa certainly a balance of exports over im ports, but in his opinion that balance ■""as not large e.nough to make the position safe, and for that reason something should be done to increase the volume of production gcuerally. So far as woo,' was concerned, the increased production was not in keeping with the increase in price. It was obvious a eerious position might arise if there was a material decline in the prices now being realised. This was a most striking example of the need for increased production. As an aid to this end lie strongly advocated the more extensive growing of lucerne, the advantages of which as a fodder he was afraid New Zealand farmers did not full j' appreciate. The general use of this fodder would enormously augment the production of this country. Another direction in which our primary products might be increased was to increase th'e butter-fat production of the dairy herds. This was going on steadily with the aid of improved methods, but the importance of this could bo seen when he said that with the numbers of milking cows in the Dominion an increase of ten pounds of butter-fat per cow meant an increase of a. million pounds sterling to the country's revenue. Electricity wn? not only a means of increasing production, but might be used as a means of increasing the amenities of life in the back-blocks. He would like to see scientific research iir connexion with the. country's industrial life more highly appreciated. The Industries Committee of the House, set up some years ago, made strong recommendations in . this direction, but unfortunately these recommendations had liot been given effect to, with a consequent loss to the country. ■ •

Tho speaker criticised the administration of the Advances Department, particularly •in connexion with tho housing policy, .which'he contended was far behind 5 present requirements. Two years ago tho country was five thousand houses short, and he wanted to know what, tho position was to-day, and what new-money..was available to meet th<oxisting demand. He was glad to see that the' University, was extendihg'its operations ."beyond arts, law, and medicine, which, .for long comprised its limits. To-day it .was' teaching the principles' of commerce, engineering,, and agriculture, all of which made for the improved status of the people and increased production, but in addition to these ho advocated the establishment-of- veterinary and.forestry schools, which at present were not adequately touched by the University Colleges. After commending the work of tho Plunket Society, he asked the Minister to v give the Housesome information as to what was proposed to be done in connexion wi : - sinking funds and with child welfare, as.mentioned in the Governor-General's Speech. Thero were some ' strange omissions from the Speech, such as failure to mention the visit of the American Fleet and the Duncdin Exhibition, which was to be the event of-the year, and he suggested that the business of-the Houso should be completed and the election got over before that Exhibition opened, lie concluded by expressing a fervent hope that all sections of the House would bo able to get together for the one purpose of promoting the welfare of this great and glorious country.

Tho Hon. Sir James Parr. Sir James Parr saiii the • speech to which they had just listened was not a wild tirade against the Government. It was as it should be, a judicious commendation of much that was being done because there was nothing in tho Government, platform to cause any alarm. Indeed, he could not see what there was to keep such members as Mr Sidey and himself apart, and therefore he welcomed the possible union that might shortly take place. Personally,- he had been Jong and favourably disposed to the idea of presenting a united front to the elements of disruption with which they were in danger of being faced. He agreed with Mr Sidey that there was need for increasing the productivity of the country. Many of the farms and estates were too large for profitable working. What was needed was closer settlement and more intense cultivation.- Tho application of scientific research to the agricultural industry would be a great advance in this direction. The Government was- not'overlooking this point, but it must necessarily be a slow process. The story of how we had increased tho weigh! of our wool fleece was* evidence of this.

Xot much complaint, he thought, could be levelled against the Advances Department's efforts to provide "houses for people. In three years the Government had spent, eight million pounds, which resulted in the erection of 10,800 house's. He could not, however, see how they could go on providing houses at the present cheap rate, and the whole question was becoming one which the Minister of Finance would have to take into serious consideration. Money was not "now so easily and cheaply obtained, and it was quite dear they could not afford to run tho Housing Department at a loss. He outlined the transactions of the 'Advances Department generally, with a view to showing the enormous expansion of that branch of tho Public Service. Of the last loan of seven millions a million was being set aside for houses, another million for advances on rural securities, showing that the small people were not being forgotten, and r)iree and a-half millions for public works and general purposes, including railways and telegraphs. The cost to the country of this loan was just 4f per cent., which was quite good. It was true the underwriters had to carry a good shar) of the loan, but that in no way affocted the country. Judged by the reception of other loans, Now Zealand loan was at that time regarded as the best investment on the 'market, and we did much better than, either the London County -Council or New South Wales. The deartU, of loan money was beund to continue for some time, and that was the best reason for reconsidering the operations of the Advances Department, and whether the Government could go on finding all the money required by fill the people of New Zealand. ■ Personally, he thought they would have to invoke the aid of private enterprise in the matter of building houses. He did not favour borrowing in America, which did not take our products, these being shut out by their high tariffs. London was considering the Question of

"rationing" Dominion loans, but for all ihat ho thought it better to J.cep our loans as far as possible within pur own Empire. Disrussing the European Peace raft, he said he favoured securing: the permanence of the western frontier as laid down bv the Peace Treaty, but he did not, think wc should mix ourselves up with the eastern frontier. So far as the western frontier was concerned, we did not believe the Dominions should have the right to contract themselves out of their responsibility, because the safety of the Channel involved the safety of London, and that involved our safety and prosperity. That, was what was involved in the (Treat "War, and unless we could secure the western frontier we could preserve neither the peace of Europe nor the peace of the world. For that ro;:son the Government would lend every (sympathy tr> the British Government in the negotiations in which it was at present engaged. It would help, not hinder them" in their efforts to reach a wise settlement of the problem. He favoured the extension, of continuation classes, and concluded by defending the expenditure on education generally for which he claimed the country was getting full value.

Mr H. E. Holland. Mr 11. E. Holland said the debate was being robbed of a groat deal of it>3 interest by virtue of the negotiations towards" fusion which now were going on. One could not help contrasting the tone of the speeches with what thev might otherwise have been. Obviously both Reform and Liberal members" were afraid of saying anything which would hurt each other's feelings. Commenting on the GovernorGeneral 's speech, he declared it referred mainly to consolidating measures, and was remarkable for what it did not contain rather than for what it did contain. There' wa.s no reference to 'the question of education, nor was there anything about breaking Up big estates. This was a serious omission when they knew how tho land of the Dominion "was being hpld. There as no such thing as a real freehold in the country to-day. There was a "mortgage hold," which did not afford that sense of security which was so much lauded by the mover of the motion now before the House. The burden of interest under our mortgage system was the real difficulty of our farmers, and the rates of interest had greatly increased since the Reform Party came into office. The freehold system resulted in the mortgagee getting the farm and tho farmer getting the road. Every time a farm was iokl it was loaded up with costs, which did not increase its productivity,, and so while its value was not increased one penny piece, its price was greatly advanced (by agents' fees and stamp duties. Every time land changed hands it was made more difficult. for the occupier to hold it. The position with regard' to soldier settlements had .not beeu fairly represented by the 'Government in the country's balancesheets, where they always had been represented at the inflated values at which they were bought. Ho understood " these settlements already had been written down by £2,300,000. If that were correct then it meant .that this sum had been presented to the land speculators of the .country, with the probability of more to follow. No reference was made in the Speech to the wheat .shortage of the countrv. So far as he could see. there woxild be a shortage of 25 million' bushels to meet the' country's requirements. If this was the position in any other in-dustry'-there, immediately would be a cry that the workers wero going slow. He did. not accuse farmers- of going slow, (because he knew there were economic conditions prevailing which were against the farmers, but thoso conditions wero due to bad government, management, and organisation. That was.his. complaint in. this connexion. He defended the workers generally and; tho coalminers in 'particular against the charge of "going slow" made by Mr Hudson, who declaimed against tho workers, but never once protested against the breaches of agreements made by the eoalowiicrs. New Zealand was importing coal which could bo supplied by New Zealand mines, .consequently" the men were standing idle a great part of their time, and could not get a decent living. With' respect to the European Pact, he hoped the Government would do nothing until Parliament had time to consider the details. He was not adverse to any steps being taken that would.end.war, but ho could not forget the British Labour Party had denounced the Pact, and in that Party thero were some of tho deepest thinkers in the Empire: Mr.Holland's speech was interrupted by the '5.30 p.m. adjournment.

No-Confidence Amendment by Mr Holland. Continuing liis speech after tho dinner adjournment, Mr Holland briefly referred to the manner in which the Government was not carrying out the Labour conditions of the Versailles Treaty. No provision had been made, lie said, for New Zealand Labour being represented at the Geneva Conference. In other respects the Treaty had not been honoured where Labour was concerned. Ho criticised tho bousing policy, or lack qf policy, of tho Government, and referred regretfully to tho total eilcnoo of the Speech on the subject of a. universal pension. In conclusion, he moved as an amendment that the following words-be added to the motion of the member for Frank-' lin:-

But wo deem it our duty to represent to your Excellency, that your Excellency's advisers do not possess the confidence of this House. Tho amendment was seconded by Mr H.-T. Armstrong. The Hon. G. J. Anderson. The Hon. G. J. Anderson remarked upon tho comparative mildness of 'Mr Holland's speech. Ho remembered thetimo when that gentleman was much more "Red'' than ho was to-day. Ho was afraid that tho member for Bullcr was "going slow." In its relations to Labour, tho New Zoaland Government was following tho lead of that very eminent statesman, Mr Stanley Baldwin, who recently put forward an appeal for tho hearty co-operation of Labour and Capital, "but the ex essive demands of Labour often made cooperation impossible. Ho read a list of tho demands made by the Labour Party of New South Wales, which were excessive beyond all reason. Mr Anderson criticised the land policy of the Labour Party, contending that tho freehold was infinitely superior to either tho leasehold or "usehold" advocated by Mr Holland. On that point Mr Holland had his answer at Franklin recently, and a most effective ' answer it was. The Government record in connexion with soldier settlements was clean and honourable. Many of the soldiers were prepared to bear out that- statement themselves. It was. idle to say that no mistakes had been made, but it was exaggeration to say tho country would lose seven millions sterling in connexion with these settlements. Even if they lost two millions then they have done a great deal of good. They had put many men on the Hand,, and"under the circumstances they had done the best that could be done. He deprecated the suggestion that farmers should V> forced to grow wheat when it did rot pay to grow wheat. Until there v a;certainty in the production of New Zetland coal there would be importation «f coa l and lack of employment ii - i tht mines. He wanted to establish tie co-operative svstem among tiro miners,-. DU t the Union stepped inland prsvenred it, uecause Labour ha'd no knowledge of business method:-/■ The Government. I, e said, had not —+. Talmut ■ defleaates to Geneva- be-

cause conditions in the Old "World were so different from these in New Zealand that it was not worth the. expense involved, lie ventured to say that if ever Mr Holland became Prime Minister Jig would not send delegates to Geneva, because it would not be worth it. So far as housing was concerned, the. Government had done a great deal. but be did not think the Government should find houses for everyone; people must do something for themselves. He warned labour against the fatal policy of abrogating the Arbitrat : on Court in the settlement of their disputes. Tho moment that tbo Court, disappeared, their liberties would be in danger. If they were, as they professed to be. the lineal descendants of Ballaneo and Scddon. thev should stand by and not desert tho Arbitration Court. He concluded by making an appeal on behalf of the Dimedin.Exhibition, and announced that it was proposed to aik tho House to increase the bounty on the production of iron in the Dominion in order t 0 give adequate assistance to the industry in this country.

Hon. D. Buddo. The Hon. D. Buddo spoke principally of the treatment of "deteriorated " lauds, rabbit and snow country, suggesting means by which these classes of. lands could be made more nrotitable He did not favour New Zealand being led into the European complications through the medium of the Pact unless the issues at stake were first submitted to tho Parliament of the Dominion. The patriotism of New Zealanders was unquestioned, but that was no reason why they should be unwillingly dragged into a. hopeless struggle. Mr Buddo dealt with a variety of topics, including wheat-growing, housing, local rates, bank exchange, and protection of industries. At 930 p.m. Mr Armstrong moved the adjournment of the debate, and tho House rose till 2.30 p.m. to-mor-row.

IX LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. (press association telegram.) WELLINGTON, July 1. 11l moving the Address-in-Keply in The Legislative Council to-day the Hon. G. M. Thomson spoke for an hour and ten minutes, a largo part of his remarks being in connexion, with the fishing industry, which he said was capable of great development for export t-rado. He pointed out that imported fish were costing much more than local production, and that New Zealand fish were preferable to imported varieties. Moreover, the people of northern countries were beginning to look to the south for a certain portion of their fish food. Mr Thomson expressed the opinion that it' marine fish replaced butcher's meat at least three time's a week, there would be less goitre prevalent. The speaker referred to tho benefits of tho present Administration in. Samoa, and said that the Pijians should be given an opportunity to entcr into Governmental relations with New Zealand. Other subjects touched upon were the undesirable moral effects of the late war, the visit of tho American Fleet, deteriorated lands, and the Singapore base. In seconding the motion, the Hon.'A. F. Hawke dealt at length arid,in detail with the Parliamentarians' visit to South Africa, a country for which he predicted a great future. Ho expressed the opinion that. South Africa was unlikely to break away from:the British Empire. The speaker remarked on tho improvements in the railway system, and expressed gratification • that the men were taking more interest in their work than hitherto. He hoped the nurses' superannuation would be given effect to as proposed. Dealing with Imperial matters, he expressed' the opinion that Britain should give preference to the Colonies. He also urged the abolition of the laud tax, and condemned the mortgage tax as an imposition. , . The debate was adjourned at 4.30 p.m.