HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Auckland Times, Volume 3, Issue 143, 4 October 1845, Page 3

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

RECAL OF CAPTAIN FITZROY. MAY I.—Mr. G. W. Hope asked the bo«. and learned member for Liskeard to be good enough to stale the terms of his motion for Tuesday next relative to the affairs of New Zealand, Mr. C. Buller replied that the motion of which he had given notice was for a Committee of the whole House on the present state of the colony of New Zealand ; and his intention would be on getting into that Committee to move the greater part of the resolutions adopted by the Select Committee of last session. But he thought it due to gentlemen who took an interest in the matter that he should state that a new arrangement with respect to the affairs of that colony being under the consideration of her Majesty's Government, he did not think he should be doing his duty to the settlers, to the Company, or to the public at large, if he were now to bring the subject into discussion in that house, and he would, therefore, withdraw the notice which stood for Tuesday next.

May 2.—Sir R. Inglis, observing that the resolution respecting New Zealand had been postponed, inquired if that postponement was the result of some communication between certain parties connected with New Zealand and Her Majesty's Government? Seeing the Under-Secre-tary for the Colonies in his place, he wished to ask him whether it was con sistent with a sense of public duty to state to the House whether or not such communication had taken place on the part of the New Zealand Company, or any other body, to alter the relations in which the Church Missionary Society on the one hand, and the natives and the New Zealand Company on the other, stood as regards each other, and what was now the actual nature of the position of these three parties in respect to each other.

Mr, G. W. Hope said he had intimated to the honourable member for Liskeard that he had some explanations to give of what had passed last night. He had given the honorable and learned member notice that he should request him to state the terms of his motion lor Tuesday night

The honourable member, on coming down to the House, stated that he meant to postpone his motion, and also that he had some communication with the noble lord under whom he (Mr. Hope) served, upon lha subject. Not having had an oppor* tunity since of seeing the noble lord, he (Mr. Mope) did not then know what had passed between them. The honourable and learned member having postponed his motion, and given his reasons for so doing, he (Mr. Hope) had nothing to say as to the terras used ; but he had explanations to give, which he now proceeded to lay before the House. In the first place, the withdrawal of the notice was unsolicited on the part of the Government, and unwished for by them. They were perfectly prepared to maintain and defend the conduct which they had pursued as regards the New Zealand Com pany. In the next place, perhaps on account of the manner in which it had reached the public Press.it would appear that the matter was more fully before the Government than was the case. The facts of the case were these:—The noble lord the Secretary for the Colonies had received an intimation from gentlemen connected with the Company, that it was possible that an arrangement on a totally different basis might be submitted to him for his consideration. In answer to that the noble lord stated that, whenever such a proposal should be made in a proppr official manner, he would be ready to give it a candid and dispassionate consideration. As yet the noble lord had not received that proposal in an official shape, and he was at perfect liberty to accept or reject the proposal when made to him. No alteration had, in the meantime, been decided on relative to New Zealand. He wished it to be fully understood that such was the state of the case, that, on the withdrawal of the motion, no compromise had been made on the part of the Government, in order to avoid discussion. May 5. Captain Rous hoped the iudul gence of the House would bo extended o him while he called its attention to a matter of considerable public importance, in which he felt a somewhat peculiar interest. It would be remembered that in the month of March an hon. member opposite, on the occasion of an unopposed motion for papers respecting Mew Zealand, took the opportunity to make a serious attack upon an honourable and gallant friend of his—he meant Captain Fitzroy. At the time that attack was made he (Captain Rous) was absent. The attack was fierce, the defence was feeble, inasmuch as the attack was un'ex pected. (Question, question.) He was about to conclude with a question. He had heard, with great pahs, that his hon. and gallant friend was about to be superseded in the government of the colony of New Zealand ; and the fact occasioned an additional pang to him, because he had not had an opportunity of defending him. He had long known Captain Fitzroy as a straightforward, honourable man —and a most efficient public servant. The Speaker informed the honourable and gallant member that he was out of order. There was now no question before the House. The honourable and gallant member should reserve his statement till the motion was made for reading the order of the day. Captain Rous would then content himself with simply putting his question, whether it was true that Captain Fitzroy had been recalled?

M. G, W. Hope said, the honourable and gallant officer having given him notice of his intention to put this question, he was now prepared to give him an answer. In giving him that notice the honourable aud gallant gentleman had stated that his object was to enquire whether the grounds on which it was proposed to supersede Captain Fitzroy were such as in any way to affect his character as a gentleman and an officer in her Majesty's service. In the first place, he might state to the house that the determination of the noble lord under whom he acted, to appoint a successor to Captain Fitzroy was communicated to no one beyond the members of Government, except to Captain Fitzroy's nearest relatives. He therefore presumed it was from them the honourable and gallant officer had derived his information* The grounds on which that step was proposed to be taken was such as in no way affected his character as a gentleman and an officer in her Majesty's service.

They were, moreover, in no way connected with the charges made by the New Zealand Company ; or as regarded his conduct in those negociations, in which a slur was cast on his honour and character. The house would probably not wish him to go into a statement of the -grounds on which it was proposed to supersede Captain Fitzroy ; in fact, but for the question which had been put, no public communication would have been made of these circumstances until a full explanation could have beeu afforded. Be might, however, be allowed to read a passage from the despatch sent out by the last New South Wales mail, intimating his recal to Captain Fitzroy, from which it would most plainly appear that the grounds of that step in no way affected his character as an officer and a gentleman. The hon. and learned member then read the following extract of a despatch from Lord Stanley, addressed to Governor Fitzroy, dated the 30th of April, 1815: —" The concern with which 1 announce this decision is greatly enhanced by the remembrance of ths public spirit and disinterestedness with which you assumed this arduous duty, and of the personal sacrifices which you so liberally made on that account; nor can I omit to record, that in whatever other respect our confidence in you may have been shaken, her Majesty's Government retain the most implicit reliance on your personal character, and on your zeal for the Queen's service. You will, therefore, readily believe that 1 have acted on this occasion in reluctant submission to what I regard as an indispensable public duty, (Hear, hear.)

Captain Rous said, he did not rise with the intention of finding fault with Lord Stanley for superseding his gallant friend Captain Fiuroy, for the best of a;l reasons—he was totally ignorant of the grounds of bis dismissal; but his object was, when the supersession of Captain Fitzroy was public, to be allowed to pay his tribute to the public worth of that gallant officer. Captain Fitzroy was a midshipman under his (Captain Rous's) command, in a oorvette in 1822 and 1823, and he would give the house bis word that there was not a better seaman or officer in her Majesty's uavy. From 1831 so 1834 Captain Fitzroy commanded and surveyed the coast of South America, from the river Plate to (be coast of Chili. In the performance of this arduous duty, as he could not complete the survey of Cape Horn without the assistance of a seoond vessel, he purchased and fitted out, at his own ex pence, a schooner. He likewise brojight to England three natives of Terra del Fuego, whom he educated, that they might be useful in the event of her Majesty's Government forming an establishment in that country • and, the Admiralty refusing to send back these natives in a vessel of war, Captain Fitzroy was obliged to charter a merchant ship to convey them borne. Not ons sixpence was repaid to him, and he actually spent ona fifth of bis private fortune in the service of the state. In 1843 Captain Fitzroy informed him, in that house, that Lord Stanley had off: red him the government of New Zealand. He (Captaiti Rous) advised his gallant friend to refuse the appointment, knowing that an angel from heaven could not reconcile the differences between the natives, the missionaries, and the New Zealand Company. At that time Captain Fitzroy bad the honor of lepresenting Durham, and be had a public income of £BOO per annum as a conservator of the river Mersey, and as one of tbe elder brethren ot the Trinity House; all of which be gave up, besides a great sacrifice of pri. vat* property, to accept the trifling balance of £4OO per annum. He mentioned these cifoutn. stances to show the house that Captain Fitzroy was always impressed with one idea—how he could best serve his country. As long as the New Zealand Company existed—as long as they had an imperium in irriperio in that colony—it was utterly impossible for any man to govern it. He wished to know why the New Zealand Company dared not bring forward their promised motion? All he could assure them was, that whenever thsy dared submit that motion to the house, be would bring foiward two charges against them-—of getting money under illegal pretences, aud of inveigling labourers and artificers from this country under promises of finding them employment and good wages, and then deserting them and leaving them to starve. Whenever the case of Captain Fitzroy's dismissal came before the house, be would be pre. pared to give an unbiassed opinion. Mr. Aglionby said be would not occupy the time of the house by any observations upon the remarks which had been somewhat irrelevantly introduced by the hon. and gallant member for Westminster (Captain Rous). He would only say, that the hon. and gallant officer was entirely ignorant of the whole subject j and at the proper time he (Mr. Aglionby) would be prepared to meet the charges of the gallant member. Mr. Trevor begged to thank the honourable Under-Secretary for the Colonies (Mr. G. W. Hope) for the manner in which he had communicated to the friends of Captain Fitzroy the intention of the Government to recall that gallant officer. He was well aware that the honourable and gallant member for Westminster had for a long period taken a deep interest in the welfare of his gallant relative, Captain Fitzroy. He would be extremely sorry in any way to embarrass the Government, for the intimation he bad received was made in the kindest spirit, and be took the opportunity of thanking the noble lord at the head of the Colonial Department (Lord Stanley) for his courtesy. The hpnoiable Under Secretary bad to.night read an

e xtraot from the despatoh sent out to Captain Fitzroy. The only point on which Captain family had entertained any anxiety was completely set at rest," for it . was clear that nothing had occurred during the time he held the appointment in New Zealand, reflecting in any degree on his high character as a gentleman and an officer. (Hear.) He (Mr. TrevOf) hoped the Government would be fortunate enough to secure the services of a gentleman who would be more successful in dealing- with the difficulties of the situation. It was impossible to overstate, the immense difficulties of the position Captain Fitzroy was called upon to fulfil when be assumed the government; and be would venture to say, that the Government would not obtain a more able or more honest servant than bis gallant relative. (Hear hear.) Mr. Ward could not allow this discussion to close without saying that there was something absolutely unfair on the part of the honourable and gallant member for Westminster in making a distinct charge against the New Zealand CompanyHe (Mr. Ward) had no connection whit that Company, but lie believed they possessed the means of proving tbat almost every charge made Bgainst them bad originated in their differences with the Government. When be saw Captain Fitzroy' friends coming forward in this manner, be thought, as an individual perfectly disinterested: as to this question, he ought to say, that though there might be no imputation upon the moral character of Captain Fitzroy, or upon his character as an offioer and a gentleman—a notion which no one could dream of entertaining—be believed tbat no measure of the government bad given more satisfaction to any person who had watched over the progress of our Colony in New Zealand than the recal of Captain Fitzroy. The conduct of that gallant offioer had been most mischievous aud unfortunate ; and if his friends would parade hi* high character as a gentleman, he (Mr. Ward) most say tbat no man had ever shown so little fitness for the office to wbicb he had unfortunately been appointed. Sir. R. Inglis was understood to gay that the honourable and gallant member for Westminster must regret some of the observations he had made on this subject. He had long known Captain Fitzroy, and he fully concurred in every word tbat had been said in praise of tbat gallant ofEoer, not only in his public capacity but in all the relations of private life :'. nothing could be purer than the intentions with which he accepted office, and, as fer as intentions went, no man could stand, more completely exonerated than he did* Mr. Mangles felt assured that the honourable and gallant officer, the member for Westminster, would, upon reflection, see the injustice of impnt-. ing to the New Zealand Company that they had raised money upon false pretenoes. Mr, G. W. Hope said, that there had been nothing said against the private character of Captain Fitzroy. On the contrary, every credit was given to him for an anxious desire to dis* charge his duty ; be bad evinced great courage and had made great sacrifices. May 7. Captain Rous gave notice, that on Tuesday, the 20th May, be would move a reso? ution to the effect tbat the Waitangi treaty with New Zealand should be maintained in its strictest utegrity.