THE ASHBURTON SEAT.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume VII, Issue 1651, 1 September 1887, Page 2

THE ASHBURTON SEAT.

MR PURNELL AT HAMPSTEAD.

Last evening Mr 0. W. Purnell &d dr eased the electors at Bampetead. There were about fifty present, several of whom had come from Ashburton, presumably because of the announcement that Mr Purnell would reply to the speech delivered m Ashburton last week by Sir Julius Eogel. Mr F. T. Mayo, the Chairman of the Hampstead Town Board, occupied the chair, and briefly introduced the speaker Mr Purnell, who was received with applause, said that as he bad already spoken at Borne length at Ashburton and elsewhere upon the ordinary ran of political topics, and as his speeches had been morn or less fully reported m the newspapers, he had thought it might be agreeable to them if he traversed fresh ground and dealt with the various topics which had bean referred to by Sir Julius Yogel m his recent speeoh at Ashburton. Of course if any gentleman present wished to hear hia views on any subject not treated on, he would be happy to explain them at the close of his address. As a preface to what he was going to say he would deal with a remark made by Mr D. Willianwon at Sir J. Vogel's meeting. That gentleman very angrily referred to a remark he (Mr Purnell) had made at Rakaia, whjn he alleged, and he still maintained tho truth of that allegation, that the object of Sir Julius Yogel being brought to Ashburton was to influence the Ashburton election. At Sir Julius' meet ing Mr Williamson asserted that no one knew better than he (Mr Purnell) that the requisition asking Sir Julius to address an Ashburton audience wai sent before he (Mr Purnell) had announced his candidature. JNow he knew nothing of the eort. Ho did not know that such a requisition, had been sent or anything about it But what had the requisition to do with the matter m point. The main question was : Why did Sir Julius come to Ashburton m the thick of a contested election ? Did anyone seriously suppose that he did not come for the purpese of using his influence to secure the return of the Ministerial whip ; surely no one supposed that Sir Julius came m his (Mr PuriieU's) interest. He though that it was a highly improper thing for Ministers of the Crown to go about the country constituencies as Sir Julius Yogel and Sir Robert Stout were doing, trying to influence the elections. Of course it was perfectly proper for Ministers to give their political views m large towns so that the community might haye # a chance of learning their policy, but it had been always recognised as a constitutional principle that Ministers ought not to interfere with local elections This fact had been recognised by the Legislature, and it was m accordance with this that the Act hid been passed, making it necessary that tho poll for all the con s'ituenoies should take place on one day, the object of the measure being to pre vent the Ministry of the day arranging the elections to suit their own purposes. Sir J. Yogel m his speech at Ashburton the other day told them nothing new. Bis speeches were all pad, bueh as reading a long letter written tea years ago, and another emanating from an anonymous correspondent of the "Otago Daily Times." Sir Julius told them nothing fresh on his own account. The first subject touched on by Sir J. Yogel was THE LAND QUESTION, And he (Mr Purnell) had been much edified on listening to the laudable sentiments expressed by tbe Colonial Treasurer on this important subject. But when he began to talk m terms of mild reproof against tba Ticiousness of land monopoly it seemed very much like Satan reprpviog sin. Ever since Sir Julius began his public career m Otago, he had been the champion of land monopolists, and when 'he returned to the colony a few years ago it was the large land owners and speculators generally who restored him te power, m the hope that he would be the means of causing further borrowing to be entered into, m which caae there would be a big " boom " and the land owners and speculators would have an opportunity of making their fortunes, no matter what became of the colony afterwards. Sir Julius' statement sounded supremely ridiculous to him (Mr Purnell) as an old settler. It might go down' with persons just recently arrived \ m the colony, but old Battlers knew that Sir J. Yogel had always been the avowed — and he would admit that he was a very able— champion of the large land holders and speculators. Sir Julius stated that he objected to the perpetual lease system. Be said ; " There had been a great deal said upon the subject of perpetual leases, and as he told them when he wns m A«h~ burton three years ago, he did not attach much importance to the plan of perpetual leasing, for the simple reason that m hit opinion those persons who took up perpetual leases, as they were called, would when tempting terms offered exchange those leases for freeholds • . But he did not think tbe wholesale introduction of tho landlord and tenant system into the country was desirable. Lord Beaconsfield had exposed tho system m England, and had shown that the profits were divided into three- one for its landlord one for the tenant worker and one for the laborer-. He (Bir JuHub) could not help thinkiDg that all we required m this oountry was a division of fhe profits in£o two — part for tho wprking owner, and part for the laborer he employed." Now, ha (Mr Parnell), would like to ask, if Sir Julius Yogel did £not agree with the plan of perpetual leasing, why did he remain a member of a Ministry which had the perpetual leas'ug system as one of tbe cardinal points of Its policy— if indeed it had a policy at all - and whichfchtd invited the House to sanotion the borrowing of money so that its idea of land settlement might be oarrled on. The constitutional rule was that a Ministry should speak one mind . A Ministry should ennnclateoertUn principles, and if any member did not agree with any of jihoee principles, it was his duty to resign, MINISTERIAL DXSUNXON, There seemed to be very few principles the members of the Stout* Vogel Ministry held m common. Every one was on his own account. Both m and out of the House they talked against each other tnd m the Bonne was witnessed the spectacle of th.eir yot/ng against each other. A short time ago Sir $ijios Vo^el wrote a long letter to tbe Tijapeka p#pe*, Ujybg down a policy which proposed the fcorpo^ing of many more millions, and In Auokland recently he a»kod that the colony should be given another chance — meaning, of course, further borrowing and a new Public Works polioy. At the other end of the colony — at Dunedln — they had the speotaole of the Premier, Sir Robert Stout, urging the abandonment of borrowing and the embracing of a policy of i£p/jrlug oS the House they found Ministers taking opposite sides on such an Important measure 09 tba Reprcsentatlon Bill. Recently Sir RobarY Stont advocated the borrowing of two millions, a great part of which (£700,000) he proposed to devote to the construction of the Otago Central Bailway, a work which no one pretended could pay. Now what did Sir .Jullm Yogel tell them about this railway?— He paid, {a bis Ashburton speech the other day, that h.e dtysppri?ved of it being oonatraoted oqt of borrowed money and that he thought It should be built by a syndicate m the same man nor ai tho Midland Bailway. These wore a ew example* of the manner In which Ministers differed In opinion from each otfc.r. It was the same with everything else. Even In gpgfjrd f>g Education they differed, and there ' y»« * n,o unity among them. If a man said "tliat 1 he was a supporter of the StoutYogel Administration, he (Mr Purnell) aßked whom did he support — Sir J. Vogel, l £ir JR. Stout, Mr Ballanoo, or wJjoßif The :

I utter disunion that existed among the i Ministry wa s bringing responsible Govern- i ment m this country into contempt, i Their disagreements were sufficient to condemn them, and to justify the electors i ! m refusing to place any further confidence m them. It was a constitutional principle tbat could not be disputed that a Ministry should stick together. Let them see what had occurred m regard to the Home Government, of which Lord Salisbury was head. Lord .Randolph Churchill disagreed 1 with his colleagues m private— not m public as was the case with our Ministry — upon the Army and Navy expenditure. He thereupon resigned his soat as it was ( perfectly right and proper that he should j do. Had ho not done so, it would have been the duty of the Premier to ask him to resign. It seemed to him that the present New Zealand Government only desired to retain their seats ; for principles they cared nothing THE PUBLIC WORKS POLICY. Sir Julius Yogel, the cthac night, read them a long letter written by Meiars Roysa Stead and Oo , ten years ago, upon the effects of the Public Works policy. He would like to ask of what interest was this to the people of the colony. It was slmp'y padding to spin out the speech. Ef the letter proved any thing it was that Sir Julius Yogel was m 1878 on remarkably good terms with the very people he was now denouncing, Sir Jolius went on to Bay : tl The greatest evils the colony was suffering from were the evils or difficulties arising from the infl ited prices of land which obtained In 1878 9. Parsons who hid spaculated and loat were now la the habit of blaming the Public Works polioy. It seemed to him to be unreasonable of them to do so. The person who by awkwardly handling a knife out his finger, would blame the knife, Instead of bis own stupidity. In fact, It was the tendency of mankind to do so. The one who cut himßelf with the knife wonld use adjectives, not against himself but against the kuifo. It was only natural that those who might have beuefifced by the Public Works policy, if they had not over-apeoulated, should blame that polioy for tbeir failure, instead of blaming their own want of prudeco) and forethought." When Sir Julias had given vent to these sentiments those afflicted with Vogel-maoia excliamed " bear hear " and he was confident that had the object of their adoration said entirely the opposite they wonld still have ejaoulated " hear, hear." He (Mr Purnell) denied that the greatest evils the colony wa3 suffering from were evils arising from the ioflited prices of land which prevailed In 1878-79 The colony was suffering from the nataral effects of a vicious borrowing policy, added to the low prices of their staple products. & colony, containing only some six hundred thousand inhabitants, three-fourths of whom were women aud children, and which had plunged into debt to the tune of ninety-five millions could not possibly be prosperous. Were the case otherwise, he said that the land speculation, which undoubtedly prevailed m 1879, and wbicb was set down by Sir Julius Vogei m the cause of tha depression wat the natural outcome of the Public Works pol'oy, and one of the effects ol the mlsohievoui doctrines preached by Mr Yogel and his friends, who weni about the country, laying it down that the only way to get ptoaperity was t( borrow ; that the more we borrowed the richer we should be ; and when the matter of repayment was referred to thej said "Oh let posterity pay. We arc undertaking roads and bridges and rail ways for the banetit of posterity aud thej should pay their Bhare." They were iolc that they ought to look upon the revenm as a lever for raising loans and that ii they had a surplus of £40,000, it wonlc represent the interest on a million ol money, therefore they ought tv borrow that million, spend it, and ei> j y them selves. They had been told that th< Customs revenue would Increase with the population and th»t the further they ex tended their railways the larger reoeipti would be yielded. They had now learni by painful experience that the Oaatomi dutios had decreacel and they had founc that the 1727 miles o railway open post tlvely yielded less revenue than wLec there were only 1427 open. Sir Jullui Yogel when he propounded his Publi< Works polioy held the colony agog witfc excitement. The people were taught tc look to speculation and not to patient industry as a means whereby they mighl thrive, and every inducement was held out for land speculation, Steps Qughi to have been taken to ensure the colony receiving a Bhare of the lnoreased value of the land. Lane speculators were allowed to take up large tracts its very low price and these thej sold at very great increases, and the oolonj . participated m none of the benefit. The blame for this rested In very great measure upon Sir Julius Yogel. He (Mr Parnellj lived In Wellington la 1870 and he remembered what occurred m the Hausc on a night when the question of constructing railways was considered. The Government brought down a modest schedule which they ought to h«ve stock to. Bat when Mr Gisborne s*»r that members wished for more, he invited them tc propjse any lines they wished, the consequence being tbat members proposed lines which would exclusively benefit their own districts. In Its original form there was mischief m the Publio Works policy, but tftls mischief was greatly enhanced by tb,e action of the Government that he had referred to, The thing got beyond bounds and reckless borrowing was the result. SIR JULIUS VO6EL. He admitted that Sir Julius Yogel was m able man ; because he opposed him he did not deny his ability. But he was not prepared to bow down and worship Sir Julius Yogel. It was deplorable to see freeborn Englishmen grovelling at Sir Julius Vogel's feet m the manner that was being done— offarlng up incense, as it were, to him, and exhausting bhemaelves to find terim m whloh to Bipjreas" their adoration. While he adtnitted the ability of Sir Julius Vcgel, he maintained that it was of a peculiar order; It was that of the speculator pure and simple. If they looked through his BYstem of finance they would see that it was nothing but borrowing. He could not even bring down a Forest BUI a short time ago, without making provision m it for a loan. Another thing was, Sir Julius only a aoiourner here. He only Ujjed New glealaqd for his own purpoaee, and be only remained here as long as it suited hlro* When the office of the agegtGeneral beoama open be resigned his maltlon as a member of the Government n a critical period of the colony's history nd he only retained the position of igent-General ai long as it suited him, or when he had the opportunity of a fatter situation ia agricultural company fe took It. When he left the latter pslfcion he came back again to the olony to see if anything would turn 19, fend I/he speculators) put him m pwer again, T>id anydne think " that h would not go away again when hi had got what he wanted. He (Ir Purnell) had no feeling againit Sir Jillus Yogel. He had never spoken more tlan twelve words to him and those were li regard to a matter of business, but ha w\s opposed to him because Sir Julius Iriere'flts' were avowedly only temporally aid different from thosa of permanent odotiUtg. Sir Julius »lmply tHofrghi of today ; but they had »1«9 to think of tomorrow. He took It that the borrow m? fever had abated and that a mare halthy tone was now pervading the comminity. The dry bones had again begun to )iye and he thought that a new and bet'tfr order o£ thJogo wrs ftt hand, ' RATH OF INTBEflsr Wi th a view to attraotlng the fameri Sir J. Yogel had. m b!f sp»i?cb.

the other night Intimated m a mysterious I manner that if the Government were allowed to remain In uffioe they would introduce a measure to reduce the rates of interest. The Government had now been three years m office and why had thoy not done this before, It was true tha<; they had introduced a miserable Bill, the Mortgage Debentores Bill. Thia was passed, no one raised any serious objection to it ; but it wae now practically a dead letter. A TOWtf MltflßTar. The Government were awakenjDg to the fact that there Vere farmers m the community who had interests and that the dwellers m the large olties and the inhabitants of the raining districts were not alone entitled to the attention of the Government The present had baen essentially a Town Ministry. Sir Robert Stout had more than once suggested to the eleotors of Dunedin that the reduction , which had been made m the grain rates was a bonus, a concession, to which the farmers of Canterbury were not entitled, and therefore as they had received this oncasaion it was only right that they ahould not object to Proteotlve duties. Sir J. Yogel even hnd hinted that if there had not been this reduction the railway receipts would have been Inrger by £50,000. How the farmers of Canterbury had not asked for this reduction as ., a bonus or a concession, they asked for It as a right. They s*ld to the Government " Our railways are paying 7 or 8 par per oent ; while the North Island lines are only returning l£ per oent. Tou have no right to compel as to pay a needlessly high rate to make np for the defiolem :y on the Northern Railways." He mentioned this faot In conueotion with the Railways to show the uiter want of sympathy the Government had with the country districts. Then there was the action of the Government m connection with the question of Charitable Aid Previously the whole expenditure £70,000 had Ibeen pud out of the Consolidated Fund, and thus everyone m the community had to contribute his mite. The Government had now shunted the burden on to localities, and the ratepayers had to provide the money. The entire administration of the money, too, was centred m the large towns, and country districts had to piovide a most unjußt proportion of the amount. He had authority for saying that the entire coat of Charitable Aid m this district would not exceed £200 or £300 a year if locally administered. During the first five months the present Aot was m operation they had to pay £835 to the Board m Chrißtchurch, and during the next twelve months the amount was over £1,400. They contributed that large Bum to support the poor of Christohurch. THE UNEMPLOYED This was a small matter, but it tendec to show the feeling of the Government It would be remembered that they sem Chribtchurch unemployed here to work when there wore large numbers ol industrious hard-working men m th< district unable to find employment , £ little money was spent hero, and insteac of the local unemployed receiving th< benefit, men were sent from Christchurcb They might not be aware that the County Council had to pay a share of the monei thus spent, and he believed, though h( was not sure, that the Borough Counci did so also. This expenditure ehotilc have been solely devoted to the district There were here numbers of induetriou; men out of employment. They did no gather round lampposts and delive inflammatory speeches, and the "Govern ment ignored them and sent up men fron Christchurch to receive the money whicl should have been solely spent here. A LOCAL MARKET. Mr Parnell then passed on to deal wltl another of the points m Sir Julius Vogel' speech, that m regard to a local market He thought that the farmers, instead o having to complain, were extreme!; fortunate m having two markets.' Thl remarks of Sir Jnliuo on this matter wer< extremely foggy and It was difficult to ac what he intended to prove. It seemed a if his object was to spin out his speech As far as he (Mr Purnell) could gathe Sir Julias' argument seemed to be, tha we should oonaume all we produced wltbli the colony, and impose Protective dutie to provent any coming m. We shoal* have no trade with the outside world, an< should live on onr own tail and stew m ou own juice. That was a singular policy for i Minister to propound, and if anyone ela had broDght it forward it would havebeei characterised as nonsense, but as it wa the great Yogel who proposed it, there mus be something m it. Bir Julius assumed tha if there was a large population there wouli be higher prices but he did not take tht trouble to prove it. He Btated that th annual agricultural production of th colony was equal to £10,830,000, of whlol we consumed six millions ourselves am exported nearly five millions. If th population increased sufficiently th natural effect would be that we wouli eithe* 1 consume those five millions, or eta more produce would be grown, He dl< not see, however, how this would raisi prices. A large population did no necessarily raise prices. fn th 9 Unitet Kingdom where there was a very larg< population, the farming communitj was very much depressed. Farrot were allowed to go out of cultivation and he had been told bj persons who had recently arrived In the colony that good farm land In England oould be bought at a leaa prloe than m many parts of New Zealand. Sir J. Yogel went on to say lq a mysterious manner that there were certain persons whose interest was m exportation ; that it was more to their interest to export proince thin to sell it locally. Well ■uppose that was the case. The farmer sold his wool and wheat where he got the moat money for It and he did'nt trouble to enquire whether it w»» going out of the colony or not. It was well known that prices over a large part of the world were regulated by those obtaining m London. Sir J. Yogel hinted that the persons to whom he before alluded kept prjpea dowp. This was rubbish. The prices were fixed m London 'and no man m Canterbury could Influence them. Then there was the subject of TREETRADE V TBOTECTION But m discussing this Sir Julius Yogel evaded the main question. The Govern ment proposed to raise the Customs iaiiea by £175,C00 ; that was the amount winounced m the Financial Statement, but the matter had been worked out by Uoßtoms" ofgoera who estimated that. 6186,000 extra would' be ra"iaod by means )f the proposed Increases of duty. The nain objection to these duties was that ffhlle they were heavy enough to extract i large sum out of the pockets of the people and to largely augment the price )f an article to the consumer they were lot heavy enongh to aot as a Proteotlve ariff. Sir Julius Yogel had aot said a rord about this matter. Many people cere asking the question and he i raa prepared f;o maintain that the aropoaed* Jnorease* of duty were noi Bavy enoueh to aot as an incentive '0 the establishment of looal Industries, hough they were heavy enough to prove k great burden npon the consumers, den Sir Julius went on to argae that boae countries; were most prosperous riere high wages obtained: No one <Jls>tted this. Sir Julius was simply itioklng-np an Aunt Sally to knock it lo<rn again. He failed to nrqvo— in fact team not attempt—that the inoreilse 'of h» tariff would- brfng aboqt high wagsa Ito (Mr Purnell's) contention was that ha inevitable result of a Protective olicy would be to bring down the rate of ages. That was his main objection to if policy, 't At the Aahburtoa meeting, >me one put the pertinent? question to Er Julia? ; "If you «nter on, a policy of

Proteotion to what countries do you look \ for a market." Thia qneßtlon he ova4ed, locking at it perhaps as one of those "frivolous" questions which the Moyor of Ashburton decliaed-to pat, for fear of bothering the great man. But In this question there was the key to the whole position. It was one thing to manufacture goods, but it was quite another thing to sail them, They had a large number of factories and if the production were Increased they wonld fill up the local markets and It would be necessary to go outside to dispose of the surplus goods Where oould they d> thia 1 There was no market In Australia and if they went into the open market of the world thoy would have to compete with England, the ' United States and the Continental countries. To complete successfully they would have to undersell these countries and to undersell them would mean to reduce the coat of production here to as low a level as that of the countries he had mentioned, or m other words, to cut down wage 3 In Belgium and Germany skilled attiaans oould be got for Is 6d and 2a 6i a day. He would never be a party to any fiical or other policy that would bring down wages to that miserable level. What was going on m the United States. That was a country of marvellous resources and one would think thai no policy, no matter how bad, oould prevent the people being prosperous, Since the protective policy had been addopted artisans' wages had dropped till they was as low and lower than those obtaining m England and this too with longer hoars of labor. There were thousands out of work, the deplorable spectacle was ahown of woman working In mines, and m the large cities were to be found the same want and destitution that prevailed m the Old World. He had always looked for a better atata of things than that m this colony, and it was not too much to hope that we should be so situated that any man who wanted work oould get it at a fair rate of wages. However, they would not attain thlß consummation by playing into the hands of greedy manufacturers. The Government had attempted to say that the tariff would benefit the farmers. This, to anyone who had studied the items, seemed a huge joke. Sir J. Yogel had referred to certain articles which he said if the farmers produced would result m great benefit to them. Among these were pottei meats, of which last year only £1319 were imported, and honey £98. It was ridiculous to point these out as boons to the farmer. Another article was starch ; we imported £7666 worth of that, bir J. Yogel thought we might make starch out of cur own potatoes, but if we did it would make no appreciable difference m the price of potatoes. He was now going to show them that against these inappreciable benefits the tariff would impose some very appreciable taxes on the farmer. It was proposed to tax corn crusners, chaff cutters, and other agricultural machinery, which had been hitherto admitted duty free, to the extent of 20 per cent, and binding cwine 15 per cent. This last tax, it bad been calculated, would result m a farmer's harvesting costing him 4d to 6d an acre more. It was proposed to tax sheep dip 10 per cent. He did not hesitate to st-y that tuiß was put on for the benefit of air Hatch, one of the late members of Parliament. Mr Hatch had always advocated that duty and be had been a staunch supporter of the Government. 'Ihat was what laid at the bo'.tom of the cry for Protection. Then it was proposed to tax barbed wire 15 per cent. 'Jhese were special taxes on the farmer who had to use these articles, while no other class m the community had to Mr Purnell refeired to the proposal to raise £110,000 by means of a 5 pei cent duty on calico, etc. This was a taa which would be heavily felt, and no one pretended to say that it would resu'.t ie the establishment of cotton factories. FRUIT. Mr Purnell spoke at some length m regard to Sir Julius Vogela rem»rkß~~oE statements and denied that the proposed duty was of any use as the locally grown fruit must drive the imported out of the fruit growing. Ha ridiculed the latter* market, and the duty could not; possibly encourage an export trade RETRENCHMENT. He had been very much disappointed with the remarks of Sir Julius Yogel In I regard to retrenchment. The latter said that " if the House *vas resolved on the matter of retrenchment the Government would be willing to cany it Into effect." He (Mr Purnell) thought that it was the duty of the Ministry to iead the House and not of the House to lead the Ministry, If a Government was oonvinoad that retrenchment was necessary it was its duty to come down with a scheme of retrenchment. It seemed to him that Sir J. Yogel was out of sympathy with the people for he talked of strengthening the revenue to make it equal to the expenditure when the people insisted that the expenditure should be brought within the revenue. Mr Parnell spoke to the tame effect s« at bit Ashburton meeting, urging that the only way efficient retrenchment oould be secured, would be to put the system of Government on a simpler basis. He quoted figures to show the increase Bince the abolition of the provinces. In 1875-76, the last jut of the provinces the oost of the departments of the general Government, the Legislature, Miniaters and the Governor's salaries was £804 794---last financial year it was £2,144,664. ' * THB MIDLAND RAILWAY. Sir Julius. Yogel had made aome mysterious remarks on the subject of ihe Mid a.nd Railway, and had hinted that if the Government were turned out, that work might come to grief. The present Government deserved no speoial credit for that work ; the people who deserved credit were those m Ohriatchurch who subscribed their money and sent Home three gentlemen to arrange the matter. All the Canterbury members went up pledged ;o the Jine, and no Government oould have itood against them. All thia Government lid, was to bring down a measure In iccordance with the members' expressed vioh. CONCLUSION. Sir J. Yogel did not pretend that he ras prepared with any eflective retrenchnent and the colony did not believe the laauranoes of his colleagues. The people ould not forget that the budget brought [own last sessioa was not a budget of etrenchment but one of augmented taxation and that if the Government had been a little Btronger, the country would not now be disoosoiog retrenchment but J would be paying the additional taxes Every man. who supported that budget, and Mr Walker did' so unreservedly, did] their best to have it carried out. It! was because he disputed the necessity I for increased taxation and because ha I wished to see brought about a cheaper and simpler form of Government, that he had oome forward and trusted that he would receive their support on polling day. I Mr Purnoll who had had a very attentive hearing was loudly applauded on resuming his seat. . I h *r w ,;>°; 7 alkM Mked ff he * onld be permitted to reply to aome of the statements of Mr Purnell v Mr P *T el ir aa ? seßted fchat Ifc would be better if Mr Walker postponed his wply til ithe quest ions, if any, were disposed of Mr J. Kelr asked if It waa 'true that sage was made from potatoes ' I Mr Purnell said that he h«d alwaya anderstaod that it was a product of the i jago pajm bat he gathered from Sip Jullua 1 yogel'a'op&oh the other nlglrt'thai it was 1 *n adulterated article and Sir Julius I mggested that we might ai well do oar I mn adulteration as people elsewhere. > 1 1 There «vere no other questions. • J ] Me Walker, who was received with I oud applause, thanked Mr Pqraell for t its courtesy lq all off Ing Wrj to aay *<a

I©w worda When he oame to the meet* ng he had no intention of speaking, bnt some of Mr FurneH's statements were 10 incorrect that he was obliged to Mr Parnell for affording him the opportunity of correcting them. . Statements m regard to figareo were eaoily made and It was difficult, without means of reference, to correct them at a public meeting ; there* fore he would not be able to deal with these for the present It was astonishing *lth what colored glasses Mr Purnell looks! at everything that the present Ministry had done. He refused to admit that they bad performed a single good aot, and he even refased to give them credit m connection with the Midland Railway. He (Mr Walker), and he had some right ' to apoalr, considered that no other body of man m the House oould have done what the Government had for the Midland Railway. Mr Purnell had stated, that the Government had deliberately shuntei the cost of Charitable Aid on the local authorities; what were the faebs: In 1884-85, the yeav the present Ministry took office £85 000 was paid oat of the Consolidated fond on account of Hospitals and Charitable Aid. Everything was la confasioa. In Borne places the Government paid the whole cost ; m others gave a subsidy of £ for £ and m others again £2 for £ and bo on. This did not repre* sent the whole expenditure by al ong i way. The Government put the matter on » ' syatematio basis and the colony Is now oontributinp £72,000. Besides thli the Government also paid a subsidy to local bodies which was not done prior to 1188 and instead of Government being relieved there was now a greater oharge upon It than when it took office. H* considered that Mr Parnell had failed m this reipeot to make a point agalost the Government Mr Purnell maintained that there had been no retrenchment and had quoted □gores to show that whereas the oott of Government departments, eto.TV.4I £804,000 m Provincial dayi, It U. now more than two millions Bit -. Purnell forgot to tell them that m the former period, the colony was supporting , a number of provlnoes and staffs. He talked of 91 members being excessive but In those daya there were saveral hundred?. The same return that Mr Purnell had quoted from woald show that there had been a decrease m the expenditure of every Department except the Post Office and Pablic Works Department and m tbeae the increased expenditure had been recouped by inoreased revenue. Mr Walker quoted the figures from the return he. ref e -red to and said that from thu very start the present Government had done its best to bring down the expenditure and m spite of what Me Puraell had said, the Ministry had doae its utmost with the Parliament it had had at its back. Me Walker referred to the measure instituted by the Government for the reform of the Civil Service and said i bat it would lead to truer and mpt« effectual retrenchment than the. cutting down of salaries and of amounts here and thera indiscriminately. He defied Mr Parnell or anyone else to say that the Government h»d not retrenohed. Mr Parnell charged him and other members wlch having been blind followers of the Ministry and bound down to the tariff." They were nothing of the kind and It was a distortion of language on Mr Par- / nells part to say ao. They supported the Government m the last Parliament and m the vote of no-eanfidence on the second reading of the Tariff Bill, they supported them 1 because they did not wish to see them turned out. They accepted the principle that there would have to be an increase of taxation, but it did not necessarily follow that they wera bound to the items proposed by the Government or to the whole amount. As regarded Mr Puroeli's" remarks on Sir Julius Vogel's address the. other evening, he hardly liked to apeak, that night because he had a difficulty m. deciding how to handle the subject. He regretted the tone that Mr Purnell had taken up. — Be~had told them sneering!? of <; Vogel-mania/' but he (Mr, Walker) thought Yogel phobia was worse follyj It was useless to ssy that Sir Julius was not a good colonist, and had not done good service for the colony. Sir Julius had spent his beat days m the service of the colony, aod it was unworthy to belittle his uctions. He would refrain at that time from making any remarks on the material criticisms of Mr Purnell, and he concluded by again returning thanks for having been granted the privilege of addressing the meeting. Mr Walker resumed his seat amid applause. Mr Puruell who *as, received with applause, said that he had come there that night with the avowed intention of criticising Sir Julius Vogel's addresr, and therefore, had not cove armed with the tacts and figures he had had at his other . meetings. Accordingly at the present time he was not prepared to reply to some of Mr Walker's remark*. Mr Purnell npoka at considerable length m reply to Mr Walker, maintaining the accuracy of his statements, and with regard to the figures quoted by Mr Walker, said that -It had been shown laconteitably that Instead cf having saved £80,000, the cost of Government had inoreased by over £335000 a year. He maintained that Mr Walker had voted unreservedly for the finanolai proposals of the Government, and if the Ministerial side had beau a little stronger the country would ere now hare had inflicted on it tho inoreased taxation. Mr Walker said that he had not voted for the tariff. The Customs Tariff Bill was before the House at the time, and the motion of no confidence was ; "That the tariff and other financial proposals of the Government are unta'lafaotory." It 111 beoame Government supporters to lalk retreobhmeat now. He replied at some length to Mr Walker's remarks on his criticism of Sit Julius Vogel,— Mr Purnell was applauded on resuming his seat. Mr J. Keir moved a vote of thanig and confidence m Mr Puraell. He said that he was one of those affected with Vogel-phobia, and the more he saw of Sir Julius the stronger did the disease beoome. He thought that Mr Walker had signally failed m his attempt to demolish Mt Pornell'a arguments. Mr Protheroe seaonded the, motion. Mr Fdwoett proposed as an amendment i vote of thanks only. He said that hey had already catried a vote of oonfi. lence m Mr Walker and therefore he did lot think Mr Purnell could expect more han a vote of thanks. The amendment was duly seconded. On being put to the meeting the Ohalraan declared the motion carried. Only bout a fourth of those present voted. Some one called for > three chews for Ir Purnell which were hearty responded o, though mingled with groans and iaaes. Three cheers for Mr Walker were then ailed for and even more lustily responded >, but being interspersed with groans and ooting. A vote of thanks to the ohatr brought le proceedings to a clone,