LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Auckland Chronicle and New Zealand Colonist, Volume 2, Issue 43, 30 May 1844, Page 2

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, May 23, 1644. All ihe Members were present. The minutes of the la«t meeting were read, and after slight alterations, were cofiurmed. The Governor moved the Older of the day, for the first leading of the “Bill for the appropiiaion of the Revenue.” The bill was then rVad, and ordered to be read a second rime on Saturday, the 251 h inst. His Excellency ilren moved the reading of ttie •* Biil for imposing a tax «n Land.” Bill read a first time, and moved that it be read a second time on Saturday, 25th inst. He then moved the order of the day, for the first reading of the “ Bill for imposing a tax on Houses/’ which was read accordingly, and ordered to be read a second time on Saturday, 25th inst. Mr. Clifford gave notice of his intention to oppose the Land and House Tax Bill*, on their second reading The Hon. Attorney General gave notice ”that oh the second reading of the House Tax Sill", he would move the following amendment, viz.—add to the end of second clause “ provided that no person occupying any house by license, under tile Licensing Ordinance, shall be liable to pay the lax hereby imposed, for more than four rooms.” His Excellency then moved that the “ Bill for imposing a lax on D«gs,’’ be read a fiist time. Much discussion then eusued respecting the -bove bill, when Dr. Martin gave notice that on ihe r-econd leading of the Dog Tax Bill he would move that the same be amended by erasing the words “ or a Dog belonging to any Aboriginal Mls tive,” in Bth line. The Governor gave notice that he would, at the second reading of the said bill, move that clause fonej be amended as follows—after the words, “ every dog ” erase the words, •* more than one kept at any one houseafter the word “ native,” in Bth line, insert the words, “ not kept io or within one mile of any Town, a yearly tax of five shillings.” Provided that dogs kept at a greater distance than five miles from the settlements of Auckland, Wellington, No so«, Ru-scl, New Ely* mouth, H ikianga a d Akaroa, shsi be exempt from any -uch i*x. On niiiti m of the Governor, it «as rder d t list tlie sard >.ill i*e read a y coiidlime on Sai«f -ay, Zs»h mst Tin- G veinor ih-n las i *>n s” ' *«* pa:ative st Violent -•» \b- eviei r r,-a S 1*43 and 1844.” 4*hl loaf'd '«*■ *v for the cnii«id< rai<»n » * isvaiiab e assets and habi 'tn i qur. ” ii " diate liquidation/’ After »»sne d«-»cu»»3-o. »* •** > order d, that the same beprm ed. The Governor then moved, “ that the m-ppT mentary statement of assets arid iabite of IM A

Colonial Treasury of Ne*v Zealand, not bei' g immediately available, or requiring immediate liquid dation, be now considered." After discussion, in consequence of its being incomplete, the Council were of opinion that the same should not be printed. Mr Brown said, that tbe ,£14,000 liabilities appeared to be due up to the lith of May, whereas tbe salaries appear to have been paid up to the 31st of March only ; six weeks salaries would therefore require to be added to the liabilities. The Governor explained that the salaries would not be due till July next, and consequently not considered liabilities. Tbe Governor in answer to a question put by Mr. Brown, said the Home Government bad dishonoured the bills drawn by the late Governor, in favour of Boyd and Robinson, for £2000; the Colony would have to pay that with interest,Jat the rate of 5 per cent, which was all the Home Government would allow, although the arrangement Was for 15 per cent. The statement was ordered to be printed in the minutes of Counoil. Mr. Brown, on looking at the asset item of Land Fund, and the emigration item in liabilities said, the Council ought to have an account of ail land sold, in order to know how much the Emigration Fund was entitled to, and how much bad been paid. The Governor agreed with Mr. Brown, that such an aocount was necessary, as well as a statement of what bills were drawn on aocount of emigration; he was sorry to say, be could not give tbe required informational present. The financial accounts of the Colony were not so forward as he could wish. It was a complicated question, and could not be put in a tangible shape immediately. 4 statement having been sent home that a sum of £20,000 would be realized from Land Sales, the Home Government authorized Emigration to the amount of •£12,000 ; ou tbe arrival of the Emigrants in this Colony there was no fund to defray the expences, the land fund having failed, the sum advanced by the Home Government is charged to the Colony, and is made up of cash advanced, and of bills drawn here to defray the expences. Dr. Martin said, the statement did not show what amount had been paid for emigration. The Governor—No, it merely showed the liabilities.

Dr. Martin—lt appeared to be that the emigration fund, had been spent for the purposes of Government. That fund was therefore indebted to tbe Home Government, and tbe Colony to that fund. The Governor said, not being able to show the State of tbe Land Fund, be could not give the necessary information, (he here read an extract from a despatch of Lord Stanley, making the emigration debt chargeable to the Land Fund J, if no land were sold, no step need be taken to pay the debt.' With respect to items, under the bead assets,fsome of them were of a doubtful character, others would be revised. The land estimate meant land now belonging to tbe Crown, of the title |,of which there Was no doubt. Mr. Brown here remarked that he did not think Sufficient land would be sold to pay thedebt. The Governor—lt was as reasonable an estimate as be could give, it shewed a balance when corns pared with tbe first statement, of £26,000, that balance was not available, nor would it be for some time ; the position we are in, having £14,000 to provide for, we ought not to be discouraged at Laving that sum to pay; ail Colonies had been assisted by the Home Government, this Colony had been assisted, but moderately; the impression at home, when he (the Governor) left, was that ibis Colony could pay its expenses, even at the rate «f £50,000 per annum; his surprise on arrival could be imagined at finding the Colony in debt, and with scarcely any revenue. Dr. Marlin remarked on motion being made to have tbe statement printed in the minu es, that the statement, defective as it was admitted to be, would not benefit the Colony by being published, notwithstanding its flattering balance of «£'26,000, be therefore moved that it should not be printed in tbe minutes. Agreed to. Mr. Brown suggested that a quarterly statement ©f Expot te and Imports should be published for tbe benefit of the commercial classes. Tbe Governor approved of the suggestion, and would make arrangements to carry it into effect. On tbe motion of Mr. Brown it was *“ That a return of the Exports and Imports into tbe Colony for the year 1843, and as much of 1844 as practicable, be laid on the table on Satuiday the 25th instant, distinguishing quantities, values, and tbe places from whence exported and imported, also the revenue for the same period, distinguishing tbe Port from whence tbe same is derived*’' Ordered to be laid on the |table on Saturday, 25th inst. The Governor moved tbe order of the day, for the further consideration of the “ Court of Requests' Bill."

On clause five being read, the Attorney General moved an amendment upon Mr, Brown’s proposed amendment, to the following effect, viz.—-" Add to end of sth clause, and in case any Commissioner shall by reason of sickness, or other cause, be unable to discharge tbe duties of bis office, it shall be lawful lor his Excellency the Governor to appoint a fit person being such Barrister or Solicitor bs aforesaid, to act in the place of such Commissioner so long as such inability as aforesaid, shall continue.” Agreed to. On clause nine being- read, the Attorney General moved—" That the said clause be amended by inserting at the end thereof, the words,—Provided also that any suit which would otherwise fall within the cognizance of the Supreme Court, may, by the agreement of all the parties theieto, be brought and determined in any Court of Bequests, which might have had cognizance thereof if the debt or amount alleged to be due and owing did not exceed £20.” Clauses 10, 11, and 12, were read and agreed to. On clause 13 being read, the Governor put the question—“ That the Court should sit two days in each month." Agreed to. On the question being put that tbe days of sitting be the sth and 20. h days of the month, it was negatived. On the question being put that the days of sitting be the fist and third Wednesday in every month, and that the words *‘ a Sunday or Good Friday,” be struck out in the said .clause. Agreed to.

On motion of the Govtrnor, it was otdeied— Th t the lurther consideration of the said Bill be postponed until Tuesday, 28 b instant." On muliou of the A t’orrey General it was ordered —*• t bat tbe second reading of the Imprisonment for Debt Bill be postponed to Thursday, the 50th instant. Tiie Council adjourned until eleven o’clock on Saturday, the 25th May. SATURDAY, May, 25th; All the members were present. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. _ Dr. Martin rose and said, he would move that his resolutions of whioh he bad given notice should be read. The Clerk of Council then read the resolutions, whioh proposed an enquiry into the subjects of Emigration, Presemption, Customs, Improvement of the Natives. Efficient Protectors, and if possible, that they should be medical men. His Excellency rose and said, that as many irapoitant measures were now before tbe Council, which would take some considerable time to finally arrange, he would beg to propose that the resolutions just read, be taken into consideration this day fortnight, (Saturday, June Bth,) which was agreed to. His Exoellency then said, he had noticed a statement in a newspaper, which threw a doubt on the legality of the proceedings in Council, in consequence of the names of all tbe non-official members not appearing in the list of the Commission of the Peace; his reason for not publishing the revised list, was, that the names of many gentlemen bad been erased, and no doubt it would be hurtful to their feelings to find their names expunged,—but as the list had been called for, he would now lay it on the table, and it would be printed in tbe Gazette . His Excellency then read an extract from his Instructions, shewing in what manner he was to constitute the Legislative Council. The Governor then said, another question had been asked, —Wby all the bills that were about to be iutroduced to the Council, were not published for general information?” He took the present opportunity of iVorming the Council, that the respective bills were made as public as he possibly could ; the bills were laid on the table in the order iu which be thought best for tbe public interest, but if any Hon. Gentleman proposed that all the bills should at once be laid on the table for this session, he, (the Governor) had no objection to do so. Mr. Brown suggested the propriety of the pnblio being allowed to purchase the bills at a low rale. His Excellency replied that any person applying to the Clerk of Council, would not be refused a copy of any of the bills. The second reading of the 1 ‘ Appropriation Bill” was then proposed, when Dr. Martin rose, and in a very able speech, which we regret our limits will not admit of giving in full, stated his views oq the subject of expenditure, which he felt conscious were the opinions of the intelligent portion of the people. He considered that in tbe present state of tbe Colony, the estimates must be reduced to £20,000. Tbe bon, member thought it would appear invidious to go into every item, seratim, as at every step personal feelings and private interests would be interfered with. But he felt sure the Colony could not pay any thing like £36,000, and it would not be wise to vote such a sum.

Mr. Brown said there was a deficiency of £14,000 upon last year, and the question was not what the Colony would or ought to pay, but what it could pay. The hon, gentlemen proved by tbe returns of exports and imports, the unwholesome state of trade, and although a great deal of capital had been invested in land, it was but of little value to sell. He for one, could not consent to the proposed estimates, because if they were passed they should vote away their creditor’s money, and not their own. He thought that the Customs’ Revenue might be screwed up to £20,000. And he bad no objection to vote for that sum. The Colonial Secretary looked for better times, he did not apprehend that the present depressed state of things would last long. He thought considerable assistance would be rendered by the Home Government. A desultory conversation then ensued between the Hod. Member and Dr. Martin when

Mr. Clifford called their attention to the subject of the estimates, from which they appeared to be digressing, He considered it would be absurd in the extreme to sanction the imposition of direct taxation, as it would operate very injuriously on the interests of the Colony, by effectually putting a stop to emigration with capital. He was decidedly opposed to the Land and House Tax, and thought until they weie acquainted with tbe amount of assistance from tbe Home Government, they should reduce the estimates. He felt a greatobs jection to canvass the separate items of expenditure.

His Excellency then replied at some length, to the arguments of the Hon. Members. He cons sidered the Government had been of great service to the Colony, especially to the Northern District, by the large sums of money which liad'been there spent, belonging to the British Treasury. The Governor felt satisfied upon the representation of tbe real state of the Colony, that great assistance would be rendered by the Home Government, but in the mean time we must help ourselves. He defended those departments of the Government, which Dr. Martin considered might be reduced. His Excellency was of opinion that any further reduction would operate very injuriously, by impairing the efficiency of offices that required rather to be atiengtbened. After a few remarks from Dr. Martin, the fnrther consideration of the estimates was Tiie Council was then adjourned to Tuesday. TUESDAY, May 28th. Present all the members. 1 he minutes of the last sitting were read and confirmed.

The Governor rose aud said, as the returns which weie to be laid on the table this morning with reference to the revenue of tbe Colony, were not Vet fcquite ready, he should move the order of the day for the further consideration of the Court of Requests Bill,

Mr. Brown moved lor the remrnof the Cusloms’ Department of Auckland,lor the last twelve months, Tbe Governor said the motion of the hon. gentleman could not with. Mr. Blown moved that the blue books of the Colony be laid on the table. Agreed to. On tiie motion of the Governor, the order of the day for the further consideration of the Court of Requests* Bill, was agreed to. In the debates on tbe clauses, Mr. Brown proa posed several amendments, but the only material alteration agreed to was that the 29tb clause be struck out, which released persons from their liability after their imprisonment. In consequence of this’amendment, the 28th clause was adjourned for forther consideration. Dr. Martin strongly opposed imprisonmant for debt, he objeoted to it on principle. The Hon. Member could not see why a poor man who l|as contracted a small debt of a few pounds, should, be treated as a criminal, while others who failed, and owed their huudreds aud thousands, shouldjjescape. The Attorney General and the Governor defended the practice as being in strict con ormity with the Law of England, and it appeared to them to be ahnost the ouly check the creditor had upon bis debtor. ! i

Whan they had got as far as the 47th clause, the Governor proposed that the further consideration of the Court of Requests Bill, be adjourned to Thursday next. Agreed to. The Governor laid on the table, the Blue Books of the Colony for 1841 and 1b42, as well as the returns. In round numbers, tbe expenditure of the Colony for 1843, was £44,000, but no doubt there would be some additions to be made, from distant parts of the Colony.

Tbe farther consideiation of the estimates were then proposed. Item I—Governor said the sum proposed was £IOO less than that allowed by the Home Government. Agreed to. Item 2.—For Colonial Secretary—and Printing Establishment. Dr. Martin proposed that it be reduced to £‘37o.

Tbe Governor and Colonial Secratary could not consent to reduce it in the least, after much discussion, in which Dr. Martin, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Clifford strongly advocated the reduction,—the original item was carried, the official members and the Governor forming a majority. Item 3.—For Attorney General, £430. Dr. Martin moved, that it be reduced to £4OO.

Tbe Governor contended that the Council were not competent to make any reduction iu the salaries allowed by the Home Government. Their duty was to point out error if any existed.

Dr. Martin was perfectly aware that tbe votes the non official members could not carry any point, but he acted on principle, and their opposition, might have some weight with the Home Government. In this case he consented to withdraw his amendment. Agreed to.

Tbe Governor allowed the discussions were beneficial, and he was anxious that all the votes and proceedings be sent home, where it was possible it might do the Colony some good.

Council was then adjourned till next Thursday, (this day.)