An Interview with Martin Phillipps

Rip It Up, Issue 95, 1 June 1985, Page 18

An Interview with Martin Phillipps

You’re in the situation of presenting and promoting a record which, with Martin Kean, is essentially by a different band. That must be a little strange. “Yeah, definitely. Because there’s so much interest in this record it’s unbelievable. I’m a bit worried about it really. And for a while we didn’t think it was good enough to release, but I think it’s okay now. I think it’ll do what it’s meant to.” How different do you think things would have been now if you’d been able to hold lineup sta-

bility over the past four years or so? “Well much as it really wears me down every time we have a change it virtually means at least four months out, then another three months for the band to come together no way could any of the lineups ... no, that’s not right, there have been some good bands, but I think it’s been worth carrying on ... I’m glad things have happened the way they have really. It has been rough though.”

You seem to have been quite conscious of holding back songs from recording until you can do justice to them have there been many songs like that?

“There were a lot of songs like that, which because the lineup at the'time wasn’t doing them quite well, have been put off and put off. Like we should have done 'Ghosts’ of 'Night Of Chill Blue’ or ‘I Saw Your Silhouette’ a long time ago. And

this lineup could probably do all those now. But we’ve never recorded anything that wasn’t ready to be recorded.”

Is there a “sound in your head” for each song you go in with?

“Quite often. But it never comes out quite like that. It’s good to have an idea, but it’s good to let things go too. Like ‘Dream By Dream; we left that as a bare skeleton, we didn’t want to think about it and that paid off.”

Overall, how close to the mark do you think you got with this EP?

"Pretty close, I think. I think we got all the songs, apart from ‘Whole Weird World’ and that’s still pretty good. In fact a couple of people still reckon that’s the best song on the record.” Probably because it is the best song. “Yeah, I think so too actually. But my favourite soundwise on the EP is This Is the Way! ”

‘Dream By Dream’ is unusually frank what were the circumstances that led to it being written?

“I suggested to Martin Kean that we write a song and rather than write airy-fairy lyrics we’d try and do something about him leaving the band. I did it from the point of view of it being me and Martin tried various points of view that he wasn’t happy with but in the end he just basically says what he says. It’s good, I like it. I wanted people to understand.” Do you find it hard that as well as concentrating on the music you tend to have to handle the politics? ‘Yeah, it’s tricky. I’ve had to force myself to face the fact of how much of the band’s development is due to me. And basically, Martin leaving the band did come down to me. I mean, it wasn’t go-

ing well but I had to make the decision. It’s not pleasant. And on the other hand, musically, since we've been trying to leave it up to the rest of the band to do things for themselves, it hasn’t really gone as well. So I’m sort of torn between the two things taking full responsibility or not.” You seem to have a real sense of purpose now with regard to the music has that always been there?

"Yeah, I think it has. For a long time I didn’t know whether we were good or not. It was good when we started getting some overseas interest, because it really does prove, yes, there is something going. Since then, I’ve decided, well, we’ve got nothing to lose really, we’ll just go for it, all the signs are good.” Do you know what success means to you personally? “Ultimately, I’d like to be able to live off it fairly comfortably anyway. I think I probably could I mean, if it came to it I could take up a job writing jingles. I’think I could actually live off music, but to do it and feel good about it, I think I have to believe in what I’m doing.” You’re reaching a stage where the Industry, the money people, are interested in you. How do you feel about that? "I think it’s quite funny actually. I just think ‘ha ha! I just hope it’s a sign of things to come, for other bands as well. I mean, I’m naive enough to think we’re on a wave of something that could really change music overseas. New Zealand music and what’s happening is that important that it could be like the Mersey Sound was to Briatin in the ‘6os. I just don’t think they could keep it all quiet the Verlaines, Sneaky Feelings, Chills, Tall Dwarfs ... the list goes on.” What do you think characterises that New Zealand music? There’s obviously something... “I think one of the most basic things is that we’ve done away with so much bullshit. The extent that people have to go to just to put on a live show is getting ridiculous. Not even the huge, big band, who you sort of expect that from. I suppose if you’ve got 30,000 people watching you they’ve all got to see something. But the level that you’re meant to go to to put on what’s supposed to be an average show is unfair... unfair to the music, unfair to people’s integrity”. With Flying Nun you’ve had the huge advantage of working with people who are in it because they love the music and that’s been the major consideration. Do you think they can change within that to accomodate any boom get more professional? “They are getting more professional all the time. They’re sort of growing with us really. Yeah, big demands have come in from overseas. They’ll just have to grow. They’ll obviously have to think

about it an awful lot, but everyone’s still right into it. They can get new people in. It should be okay we’ve had no problems so far" The Go-Betweens are one band who found they loathed the business side of things when they landed in England. Are you concerned about that? “With the Go-Betweens, they didn’t have somebody like the Go-Betweens telling them. So we’ve been warned the same with Flunters and Collectors, they gave us a bit of advice. So we’re not naive. It will be unknown territory but hopefully we won’t make any dumb mistakes. Also, the GoBetweens went there to stay and got stuck we’re not going to do that." Do you think there’s a danger of getting too “big” for comfort? “Yeah, there could be. Parts of it are uncomfortable now. It’s just a matter of adaptation , and I think we’ll all have to forcibly carve out our own lives from it all. Make rules about privacy and that sort of thing.” By the time you go you’ll be leaving a lot of expectations behind. Does that make you feel somewhat under pressure? “It does. If we really crapped out over there, I don’t know what I’d do. I just can’t really see it happening that much.”

What do you hope to achieve from this visit? "Well, we don’t really know what’s over there. I’d like to meet lots of interesting people and make some good contacts... I’m hoping maybe the Cramps or someone will be playing there...” ‘Doledrums’ was the single that won you a lot of new listeners, but it was also the one which alienated other people were you conscious of that? “Yeah, I was. But I knew it would happen even before we put it out, too. I hope those people who really did get put off us came and saw the band live and realised there was nothing wrong it was just a good pop single. But a lot of people were looking for another ‘Pink Frost’ and those sort of people I couldn’t care less about because they don’t understand what we’re trying to do.” You’re getting different crowds, a much wider variety of people, along to gigs now. Are gigs much different than they used to be? 'Yeah, they are actually. We get a cross-section of people and it’s changing all the time. I’m quite enjoying seeing a lot of people who haven’t been out to gigs for a long time starting to come along. There’s such a big turnover of people that it seems we're proving ourselves at every gig. That’s quite exhausting. In the old days, if I was tired, I could let a song go a bit, just sort of sit back and sing. But now I’ve got to put everything into it every time; think about the lyrics, line by line, think about what I was thinking about when I wrote it. And that’s just really exhausting, just to get across to these people who haven't seen the band.” So touring was tiring?

“It was, for that reason. It’s the worst it’s ever been. Because of the way the band’s playing really well, I no longer have to worry about that and I can just go for it, give a really solid performance. And I’ve realised now that it’s actually quite unhealthy for me to do it that much on a tour. So that’s a problem unless I get stronger" There’s been some comment recently regarding production values and their relationship to overseas acceptance what do you think about the need for an “international" production and what constitutes a good production? “Well, we’re getting better every time, as we can afford it. But I’m glad we started from a four-track and worked up because it means we’re aware of the recording process more than a lot of bands are, who maybe have it paid for by their companies. We’ve paid for all our own recording lately, so I think we’re aware of time and so on. I think it’s one of the strengths of the band; it means we could go into any studio and still sound like the Chills. Not let it overcome us.” Do you think you’ll do your album here? “I want to do it here, just so we can go overseas with good New Zealand product. We don’t need any more than we’ve got here I mean, as it is we don’t use the full effects of the studio.” You once made an interesting analogy on your approach to music, comparing it to the visual arts. Where Monet, who is a painter of

light, might mean a lot to some, but less so to those who are interested in content... “And I’m heading more towards light, yeah. But I’m extremely aware of content especially in our own stuff.” Would you say you’re becoming more conscious of content? “Yeah, but I still write the odd crap pop song I enjoy fooling around with words. I sort of miss now writing things like ‘Rolling Moon! with very colourful words. But once some people started laughing at that sort of thing it made me think. I haven’t written any really colourful lyrics since. But I’m writing a different sort of lyrics a lot more open.” ‘ Is there a desire to approach things differently, even within pop? “Oh yeah. We’ve only been able to tap the top layer at any time, which is just the rock songs. There’s a lot more that we can do, more experimental songs. There’s heaps of things on tape that need the sort of instruments that we can’t afford to get or lug around. Well probably do a book ... I’d like to do some really good film clips. I might be working on a soundtrack later this year that could be fun.” Can you see yourself stepping outside the band musically when things get established? “Yeah, definitely. There’s a lot of music that doesn’t work with a band, so I’ll do solo things. I expect Terry will do the same.” Is there much material lying round unutilised at the moment? ‘Yeah. I reckon if I didn't write another song we could probably get by for another two and a half years.” Are you writing at the moment? “Yeah, I had a bash the other day. I’m just having trouble with words. Finding enough things that I feel enough about to sing about. It gets really tricky.” Is songwriting still a means of escape, being able to shut yourself away in your room and come up with things? “Not as much.” Is there a difference in the way you come up with things now coming up with things to be made in to songs for the band, rather than just for the joy of it? “Yeah, that’s quite true actually. I have had to have that in mind all the time unfortunately. But we should be having a break for the last two or three months of this year, so I’ll try and get a lot of totally different stuff written.” Doing it this way with the band would seem to be quite a lot to do with discipline ... "Yeah, there’s a lot of hard work in it. I mean, God, just living here without transport, it’s an hour’s walk each way to practice every night, that or a six buck taxi ride.” Frustrations ...

“When you’re in a situation where you've got two and half weeks to come up with a new set ... we’ve only got two songs so far. Just things like that...”