AN INTERVIEW BY A NEW ZEALANDER.

New Zealand Tablet, 31 August 1911, Page 1677

AN INTERVIEW BY A NEW ZEALANDER.

(By G. J. Fama, Sydney.)

*My . grandfather lived to the age of 107 years, and I am endeavouring to follow his good example;’ laughingly said the Cardinal, when I congratulated him on his splendid health and apparent physical fitness a few days prior to his death. My congratulations were uttered in all sincerity, ■ for the Cardinal was certainty looking remarkably well and strong. IX was my great privilege to be entertained by his' Eminence at his Palace on the top of the Manly Hill. It was with some diffidence that I accepted the invitation of this wonderful Prince of the Church to spend the afternoon at the Palace, for I had imagined an hour or two of pleasure hedged in by stiff formality. I . don’t quite know why I felt so, but at any rate, my fears were soon set at rest, for I must now confess that I have never spent such a pleasant time as I did that windy afternoon. imagine a tall, handsome, well-made man, whose smile spoke of a kindly, benevolent disposition and whose one desire seemed to be the welfare and pleasure of his guest, and you have Cardinal Moran as I saw him a few days ago. ‘I am always pleased to see you Maoris from New Zealand,’ said the Cardinal with twinkling eyes, as he led the way to the room where he kept most of his famous collection of historical curios and relics of saints. This,’ said the Cardinal, taking up a well-bound and beautifully illuminated book, .‘"is a Bible of the 14th century, and this is a Bible, of Luther’s time,’ and as he showed me the other things in the room I wondered that the collection was not'more universally known. Here was the identical private prayer-book that Mary Queen of Scots had used at the time of her execution. It was a curious sensation to hold in one’s hand this book from which the ill-fated queen had obtained spiritual solace in her last hours. The book also contained an-account'of the life of St. Elizabeth, the whole being written in the language so much in vogue among the educated classes of England at the time, i.e. Latin. The manner in which the prayerbook of Mary Queen of Scots came into the possession of the late Cardinal is rather interesting. It appears that Prince Charles Edward (known as. f Bonny Prince Charlie ’), whilst flying from, the fatal field of Culloden, was assisted by a Highland ferryman. The Prince had no, money with which tp reward his benefactor, so he presented the ferryman with a leather wallet, containing the prayer, book which had been owned by Mary Queen of Scots. From the descendants of the ferryman the book was obtained by his Eminence. ’ ’ ’ - then his Eminence handed me a chalice of peculiar appearance. It was constructed,’, said the. Cardinal, ‘by the convicts in the early days of Australia, to enable their priest—also a convict to say Mass.’ It was fashioned from commonplace articles; the bowl portion was once a tin salt-cellar, to which was attached a common candlestick, this converting it into a chalice. ‘lt is one of the most highly treasured of my possessions,’ concluded the Cardinal. We then passed on to examine relics of a different kind. These are iron pikes from Vinegar Hill. This one was probably broken on some poor man’s skull,’ said his Eminence, indicating a rusty pike broken off at the top. Then the Cardinal’s face lit up with a smile as •he showed me the relics which he perhaps valued most. I refer to the articles which were at one time owned by the Venerable Oliver Plunkett, a famous Irish prelate who was executed on a wrongful accusation which sprang from the famous Titus Oates conspiracy in the time of King Charles 11. The execution of the hapless. Archbishop, who was also Primate of All Ireland, in the words of a great Protestant historian, ‘must always be considered as an- indelible disgrace upon the English nation.’ Macaulay more recently still vehemently denounced the concocted plot story, and showed plainly that the Venerable Oliver Plunkett was innocent of the charges for which he was brought to trial and execution at Tyburn on July 1, 1681. * ’

The Cardinal wrote the life of Oliver Plunkett, and published! all documentary evidence in connection with his trial and execution The relics at Manly were in the possession of John Hubert Plunket, , who was the first Attorney-General of Australia. They came into' the possession of : the Cardinal through the widow of the above-mentioned descendant of the martyr. Here was the bell which the venerable Archbishop used to ring in .his .prison ,to summon his gaoler, also his . gold watch, which he presented to the gaoler, who had been kind to him, and, most interesting of all, .'the crucifix which the victim had held in his 7 hand while he was being executed. It might be mentioned in passing that the Archbishop was first hanged, then cut down alive, disembowelled, and finally quartered. A watch of a different kind from that mentioned above, was the humble brass-cased one which the Cardinal handed me for inspection. It had been Once owned and in the possession of Father Damien of Molokai, whose fame as a martyr in the South Sea Islands evoked such interest some years ago,- and in whose defence and eulogy he late R. L. Stevenson wrote a series 5 of letters which are considered to be classics. Father Damien worked for years living amongst the lepers, and finally, contracted the dread disease himself and died a martyr for suffering humanity. For nearly two hours his Eminence conducted me over his collection. A wonderful variety of objects they were. From a ‘ Madonna and Child,’ beautifully worked in silk by Queen Maria of Portugal, to contemporary portraits of Queen Elizabeth, arid Henry VIII. ; from ancient and exquisitely .beautiful Irish gold and enamel cups (a lost art) to curious one-sided medals of Cromwell’s time ; from ancient objects used by numbers of Popes in the Vatican to rare manuscripts hundreds of years old. And soothe time passed all too quickly, and I found myselF talking to his Eminence as freely as I would have done to my, own parish priest in New Zealand. By and bye a. servant

arrived with tea and cakes, and the Cardinal acted the part of the perfect host, pouring out tea for me and chatting happily and freely the while. It was then I had time to notice the physique of the venerable Car-dinal-Archbishop. He stood, without the slightest trace of a stoop —a really commanding and stately appearance. His face seemed to always wear a semblance of a happy smile, and yet there was dignity in his whole bearing. One could easily imagine him a leader of men and no one could mistake him for other than a great scholar. It was indeed wonderful the amount of respect his every utterance obtained among all classes and all creeds in Australia. It was his unbounded hospitality and kindly nature which will always be prominent in my memory. After I had partaken of afternoon tea (the Cardinal would have none), his Eminence took me through his valuable collection of rare paintings, and finally showed me a number of Maori curios mats, greenstone, etc. — which he seemed proud. All of these were presented to him during his several visits to New Zealand. The Cardinal grew reminiscent, and told me many little incidents relating to his trips to Maoriland. His memory was wonderful, and he related things which happened many years ago with a freshness of detail as though they -.had but taken place yesterday. He- spoke affectionately of the Dominion and New Zealanders, and I left the Palace feeling wonderfully impressed with what was probably the last ■ audience . granted by the late Cardinal to a New Zealand layman. '