FROM AMERICA'S WILDERNESS TO OURS

New Zealand Listener, Volume 20, Issue 503, 11 February 1949, Page 6

FROM AMERICA'S WILDERNESS TO OURS

A "Listener" interview with

DR

OLAUS J.

MURIE

Director of the Wilderness |

Society of America

DISCOVERED, before waylaying Dr. Murie to interview him for The Listener, that he is an outstanding authority on game animals, having specialised in their study while an officer of the United States Fish and Wild Life Service. But I discovered when I met him that he is much more than that. He is a lover of primitive nature; and wild life in all its infinite variety, a man who has spent the greater part of a long and active life in the outdoor-not as a hunter but as a student seeking to understand and to preserve.

He came to New Zealand to join the Fiordland expedition that is now being organised, but before he goes South he is to present a paper

to the Pacific * = Science Congress on the’ subject of the international "protection of nature. "So it wasn’t the Notornis that attracted you, Dr. Murie? Our Forest and Bird Society was rather concerned about the possibility of your collecting a Notornis skin." "No. The expedition was planned well before your Notornis was found, but I quite understand the Society’s pgint of view. Their anxiety was natural, and I must admit I have taken hundreds of bird skins for various museums. Not of rare birds, though. Taking skins has its’ place for educational purposes, but no one these days, least of aH reputable scientists or museums, would do anything to endanger the chances of survival of a rare species." "Your Wilderness Society is perhaps the equivalent of our Forest and Bird Protection Society?" s "The two have much in common, I believe. The Wilderness Society seeks to preserve, for its own sake, at least a

little of our country in its primitive state, with all its wild life and plants just as they were befote man came. We try to promote an appreciation of wild culture." "T had the impression that the American version of wild life conservation was to preserve animals and birds in condition and quantities worth hunting for sport. I am wrong, then?" ’ "You had only one side of the’story. It is quite true that America goes to a great deal of trouble to conserve game species. That is one important phase of conservation work. But game conservation works in two wavs. It also serves

to preserve the species for those who wish to enjoy them in ways other than hunting. America has a system of wild life refuges where, as

" in your sanctuaries, hunting is absolutely prohibited. For example it has restored to marshland some of the marshes that had been developed for economic purposes. This was partly to maintain supplies of water fowl for hunting by protecting the birds’ breeding grounds and wintering places. We also have treaties with Mexico and Canada for the production of migratory birds. Some big game species are protected in a/similar way. There is an elk refuge in Wyoming,.for example." "These are places where the preservation_of game as game is a secondary consideration?" "Why, surely. We have very extensive National Parks all of which are also wild life refuges. They were dedicated for the express purpose of preserving for all time outstanding examples of America, as nearly as possible in their original natural state. They are for the enjoyment of the people as a whole, not merely for the shooters, and they are visited by many millions yearly. They

have good roads and usually facilities for visitors, but these cover only certain parts. Within the National Park system we have our Wilderness Areas. Mechanised Transport Prohibited "All forms of mechanised transport are prohibited there. You go in on foot or on horse-back. There is no other restriction on entering Wilderness Areas, but only the few who enjoy the primi-

tive wilderness usually go there. In these places we seek to preserve, not only the wild life which rightfully belongs there, but also the whole — envirorn*ment, forested plain, or rocky mountainside, whatever it might be, Then again we have National Monument areas, preserved because of some outstanding historical association, or scientific interest. I think we would treat a spot such as your Kapiti Island as a National Monument, because of its link with Te Rauparaha, the whalers and the first settlers." "You know Kapiti is a bird sanctuary, of course?" "It is ideal for that. I have had two very satisfying visits. There was no startling spectacle or display as we stepped ashore, nothing in the nature of a wild life performance for which you obtain a ringside seat. The whole thing is more subtle than that. Mrs. Murie and I saw

many of your native birds for the first time." "Is your whole family interested in wild life, Dr. Murie?" "We're an outdoor family. We've always operated as a group. My youngest son, Donald, is with me on this occasion as field assistant. He is 17, and has a year’s leave from school. We thought it would be time well spent. Martin is at college in Oregon, and Joanne at Washington University." "They have been with you on expeditions?" "Many times. Right after we were married Mrs. Murie decided we were surely going to stay married. She made up her mind she was not going to be left behind. The test came when our first baby was 10 months old. I was assigned to the Arctic. We wefe banding geese in Northern Yukon as part of a study to determine the migratory habits and wintering places of wildfowl. Mrs. Murie said to me, ‘If I stay at home this time I’ll become one of those biological survey widows.’ So she came right along. We have since all been on field trips, to Alaska, parts of Canada, and the Western States of U.S.A." "Then is this the furthest you have been afield?" "New Zealand is way beyond the horizon for us. Yet somehow it is one Place in the world we felt we really-must see." Parasites Are Dangerous "Your field of study is very wide. Is it fair to ask you as a biologist if you have heard of New Zealand’s experiments with parasites to control pests and noxious weeds?" "Most certainly. New -Zealand’s experience in that field is unique. I don’t think there has been anything like. it. anywhere in the world. | But it’s extremely dangerous." £4 (continued on next page)

(continued from previous page) "You think that when the subject of attack is exterminated the parasite will change its objective?" "That is exactly what is likely to happen. New environments cause new habits of life. Your imported ally may not even finish its task before switching to something you probably won’t want it to do at all. Then there is another parasite to deal with the parasite. And so on, in a vicious circle. The most careful tests under controlled conditions are not a reliable guide as to what will happen in the field. Changes beyond control are so nearly certain that the very greatest caution is necessary. We in America are watching with great interest. Our scientists are all very conscious of what is. happening here." "I suppose this changing of habit to suit a new environment has some bearing on your study of the Wapiti in Fiordland?" "Yes, That is a case in point. But the expedition will be on a much broader basis. The whole question of the balance of nature is involved — how the introduced game species have affected the bush, what damage is being done, and what can be done to correct the unbalance." "Yow probably already know there is a sharp difference of opinion between our wilderness lovers and our sportsmen as to what should be done?"

"T am not familiar with conditions in New Zealand yet, and I certainly would not care to take sides, but perhaps our American experience has something to offer. We have a tremendous number of conservation groups there, each concentrating upon its own particular aspect. Organised sportsmen’s groups tend to stress the preservation of game, species though’ many non-shooting sportsmen strive to preserve wild life for its own sake. One of the Wilderness Society’s strongest allies is the Sierra Club, an organisation of trampers, climbers, and the like. There have been many clashes of interest between the various conservation groups--numerous’_ conservation crises-but in recent years we have begun to discover that the only way to succeed with conservation as a whole is. to recognise, each other’s interests. There is ground common to all in the fight to preserve the country’s natural heritages, | and there must be a common basis for working in co-operation. "I am not one of the shooters, but I have met some of your sportsmen and found them very fine people? It must surely be possible to find a solution which will preserve both assets, -, and the native bush. I don’t think the true sportsman will complain if smaller herds (kept so to prevent damage) make shooting more difficult."

G.

F.