INTEREST IN CHINA

New Zealand Listener, Volume 13, Issue 338, 14 December 1945, Page 12

INTEREST IN CHINA

New Zealander To Represent Australia At Chungking

| had a distinguished career as an economist in Australia, and is now to go to Chungking "as Australia’s Minister there, came home the "other day to see his people before he leaves for China. He is Professor"™D. B. Copland (pronounced "Copeland"); Economic Adviser to the Federal Government since 1939, and until recently Australian Prices Commissioner. He war born in Timaru, and went to Canterbury College, and became a professor’ of economics in Australia. When he was in Wellington for a day on his way south, The Listener took the opportunity to ask him what was the significance of his appointment to Chungking, and to learn something about price controls in Australia. Our interview took place over tea and scones in a Wellington hotel. A NEW ZEALANDER who has We asked Professor Copland first of all whether Australia’s choice of a Professor of Economics as its next Minister to Chungking meant that Australia foresaw economic as well as political relations with China becoming more important. His answer was that the appointment in 1941 of Sir Frederic Eggleston (now in Washington) as Australia’s first Minister was of course an indication of growing interest. Study on the er "Tt is true that Australia is taking much more interest in China than she used to," whe said. "The Pacific area has problems of its own in which we’re more interested than any other DoMinion, and we \think it’s necessary to study the peoples on the spot and not theorise about them from a distance. Re-, member, the area to the north of Aus--tralia contains more than half the world’s population, and it’s full of politica’ and economic problems of the greatest importance. Austrafia knows that the growth of these problems in relation to the growth of populationgmust be studied very carefully. The whole area needs western communications, transport, industrial plant, and so on, but we can’t assume that the peoples’ minds must also be subordinated to western ideas. "Western Europe was the focal point of international interest once, but the Pacific area is going to become immensely more important in the next 50 years." ; We asked Professor Copland if he could tell us in what way Australia expected trade with China to develov. What would Australia buy from China for instance? "You can’t take a simple view of it like that," he said. "These questions aten’t just a matter of direct reciprocal relations between two countries; the whole thing spreads out over all the neighbouring countries and becomes multilateral."

"But China presumably will need credits of some kind? What has China got that Australia needs?" "One thing I do know we get from China is bristles!" He laughed the topic away and the subject changed to price stabilisation. Price Controls "There’s one thing I would like to say," he volunteered, "and it’s this: the democracies engaged in this war have shown marked ability in controlling their economies;, I mean England, New Zealand, Australia, the U.S.A., and Canada. They have held price levels-and that’s the ultimate test-far better than the neutrals, which had no war burden, and far better than they did in the last war, which was a less burdensome war. And this is due to a better understanding of economic problems by governments, and the attention given to experts. People can scorn the economists how they like, but the economists have made a signal contribution during the war. "In Australia, outsiders became bureaucrats-I was one myself-and the word became a term of abuse, but you

economists among them played a very big part. Some of it was inglorious, but it was all very vital. They became associated with industrial men, and farmers, and manufacturers, and it is recognised that they made a big contribution to the war organisation. Five Empty Chairs "The economists in the Universities have been heavily drawn upon, so that there are five chairs of economics vacant at the present time. The Sydney chair is vacant, two chairs in Melbourne, and one each in Adelaide and Hobart. That doesn’t exactly suggest that economists are at a discount, does it? In addition

the Universities are preparing to copa with greatly increased rolls of students, and the Government is prepared to make bigger grants. Education has now become a Federal problem for the first time. It never was before. Subsidies for ‘educational institutions were always a State concern, with the exception on some grants for research work, but now there is a Federal Minister of Education, Mr. R, C. Mills, and he will coordinate the work of the State Governments, while they will remain the chief authorities." Second cups of tea were poured out, and Professor Copland began to rove over other topics that came into his mind as he thought of the advance of educational movements. He mentioned CEMA, and asked whether we had the same sort of thing in New Zealand. The Higher Life "CEMA has come quite naturally in Australia at the right moment, and it is going ahead very well, livening up music and drama, Concerts have been crowded throughout the war, and local orchestras are being helped. It is the same with the repertory societies. All that is very encouraging, because after all man doesn’t live by bread alone." Professor Copland took another scone. "Mind you," he added, "we're not very far ahead, by the standards of older countries, but there’s a healthy growth beginning. Painting in Australia is already very individual and vital, though, and in general. all the arts aré going ahead well in spite of the heavier war burden in Australia than in New Zea. land. "In farming too, there have been quite important developments. The use of machines has developed, and farming is much more prosperous. A lot of this is due to wartime conditions, and difficulties will return as peacetime conditions return, but some of the good factors will remain. All round, there’s a greater confidence in the future of Australia than there was in the years after the depression. In spite of the war, I’d say there’s more hope felt for the future of Australia." The Housing Shortage We finished our tea and lit cigarettes. Professor Copland remarked that there was much more drinking being done than there was when he was here 15 years ago. Then he asked, "How’s housing here?" We told him, as briefly as we could, but plainly. In Australia, he said, housing was also a terrible problem. Private building had almost ceased to"exist during the war, and thousands of houses were needed now. We talked of the typical Wellington problem of "roomers" who are beyond the scope of controls, because they are not simple tenants. "It’s beyond human capacity to control that side of the problem," he said. "The only answer is more houses. That's just one of the costs of war. Why Stop Now "But still, it is absurd to talk of abandoning controls now," he went on. "How can you talk of abandoning. control of prices and priorities for commodities when they are still in short supply? It wouldn’t give us more houses. The average person believes in the need for control. We lifted the control from tomatoes a little while ago and the price immediately shot up to twice what it had been. The public at once saw the

a SERENE ee value of price control, and for a while the merchants themselves put in an unofficial peg by agreement with the producers. Which tended to prove the point! The reaction to that experiment did more to establish the need for controls than almost anything else. People believe in the need for price controls just as they believe in the need for rationing. ‘The two are inter-dependent."